Castrol EDGE EP 20K Synthetic Oil Users ?

[aquariuscsm]

My bad, I guess it's the Valvoline EP that's loaded up with moly. Although I have seen the TBN higher than 6.6 with the Castrol EP...more in the 7.6 range I believe.

The old Syntec had an 11-12 tbn range according to analyses.

 

[wpod]

Those cold flow tests are done at extremely cold temps. How many people wake up with those temps in the mornings? For most, the oil is fine and flow isn't an issue.

doublebase.

 

[Speedy3861]

I guess my basic inquiry would be if there's enough meaningful difference in base stocks, TBN, or anything else that would let the Castrol EP work better in my 1.5t than the Mobil1 EP that I'm currently using. My Civic turbos would run 5k intervals on Mobil1 0W-20 AFE and have completely satisfactory UOA's, the CRV 1.5t seems to be much harder on oil.

 

[Cuemark8]

Love it! Is it overkill? Possibly?
I own Ford vehicles and awhile back took a liking to Castol Edge oils.
Where Ford does not market Motorcraft oils Castrol oil is their oil of choice.
Castrol Magnatec was the premium synthetic oil available from dealerships. Marketed and sold with Ford and Castrol logos on the jug.
In Europe, Ford has worked side by side developing motor oils with Castrol to meet their specifications and European emission and fuel conservation standards.I Inparticular, their Ecoboost engines. They even developed a specific oil exclusive to the popular 1.0L Ecoboost.
Would I ever go 20,000mi on an oil change? No way. I think 10,000mi is crazy. With fuel dilution seeming to be common problem on GDI engines I'll keep a more routine oil change.
I'm at 9,000mi right now on current oil change using the Edge EP in OW-20. I travel for work and paranoid now. I think this is the most miles I've ever driven any vehicle on an oil change.
I found out also that Castrol Edge is factory fill of the exotic Ford GT. I was told it's also factory fill on the Shelby 500GT.

Oil will be get changed this weekend for me. Back to Castol Edge in black jug. I couldn't find the EP.

If it's good enough for Ford's finest, It's good enough for me.

 

[doublebase]

I guess my basic inquiry would be if there's enough meaningful difference in base stocks, TBN, or anything else that would let the Castrol EP work better in my 1.5t than the Mobil1 EP that I'm currently using. My Civic turbos would run 5k intervals on Mobil1 0W-20 AFE and have completely satisfactory UOA's, the CRV 1.5t seems to be much harder on oil.

I don’t think you’re going to find an answer to that question. Castrol, from what I’ve read, doesnt release a lot of information on their base stocks. However I’ve also read that all base stock information is available to anyone on MSDS sheets? Which contradicts what I said. However from what I’ve read, Mobil1 AFE 0W20 contains around 30% PAO and Mobil1 EP 0W20 contains slightly more than that, ranging from 30% to 70% (depending on what you can gather/believe). I imagine if Castrol had that much PAO in their oil, they’d advertise that, or at least make that available for marketing purposes. Or their price would be higher because the PAO is an expensive base stock. But I’d love to know the answer myself. Hopefully someone with more experience in these matters can chime in.

 

[OVERKILL]

I don’t think you’re going to find an answer to that question. Castrol, from what I’ve read, doesnt release a lot of information on their base stocks. However I’ve also read that all base stock information is available to anyone on MSDS sheets? Which contradicts what I said. However from what I’ve read, Mobil1 AFE 0W20 contains around 30% PAO and Mobil1 EP 0W20 contains slightly more than that, ranging from 30% to 70% (depending on what you can gather/believe). I imagine if Castrol had that much PAO in their oil, they’d advertise that, or at least make that available for marketing purposes. Or their price would be higher because the PAO is an expensive base stock. But I’d love to know the answer myself. Hopefully someone with more experience in these matters can chime in.

MSDS sheets aren't recipes and so manufacturers are not obligated to provide detailed information on composition in them. Remember, they are just to identify potential hazards.

That said, PAO tends to be called-out on on these sheets. Some manufacturers use insanely broad ranges, like 1-90%, while Mobil tends to provide more narrow ranges. Read into that what you will.

AFE used to show 30-40% PAO:

Their 0w-16 70-80%:

and no, Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0w-20 doesn't show 30-70%, it shows 60-70%:

In comparison, the Castrol Edge EP 0w-20 shows 50-75% Group III:

 

[doublebase]

MSDS sheets aren't recipes and so manufacturers are not obligated to provide detailed information on composition in them. Remember, they are just to identify potential hazards.

That said, PAO tends to be called-out on on these sheets. Some manufacturers use insanely broad ranges, like 1-90%, while Mobil tends to provide more narrow ranges. Read into that what you will.

AFE used to show 30-40% PAO:
View attachment 87709

Their 0w-16 70-80%:
View attachment 87710

and no, Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0w-20 doesn't show 30-70%, it shows 60-70%:
View attachment 87711

In comparison, the Castrol Edge EP 0w-20 shows 50-75% Group III:
View attachment 87712

Outstanding, thanks for posting that.

I know that PAO doesn’t necessarily mean “better”, but I’d like to give that aspect of an oil a try. I’m sure they’re both great oils, but now I’m leaning towards the Mobil1. I need to get this whole PAO thing out of my system. Thanks again.

 

[OVERKILL]

Outstanding, thanks for posting that.

I know that PAO doesn’t necessarily mean “better”, but I’d like to give that aspect of an oil a try. I’m sure they’re both great oils, but now I’m leaning towards the Mobil1. I need to get this whole PAO thing out of my system. Thanks again.

You are right, Group III has slightly better solubility than PAO (both still require carrier oils for additives with better solubility), and you can build an excellent oil using Group III. That said, PAO has better cold temperature performance as well as oxidation resistance, doesn't require PPD's to achieve that cold temperature performance and is a more expensive base oil, so if it is being used, you know the blender has made the decision to spend more on that product to formulate it. In my mind, that's choosing performance over cost, though it should be noted that if two products with the same approvals are blended differently, one with Group III one with PAO, the end user is not going to be able to discern the difference and they should perform similarly in service, relative to those approvals. A Mobil 1 oil having better CCS and MRV values than its Castrol competitor while both pass the requirements stipulated by J300 for the grade, points to the blender making choices about other aspects of the product, like choosing to use PAO instead of a thinner base and more VII for example.

Personally, if I can buy two oils for the same price and one is primarily PAO based and the other Group III, I'm going to go for the oil the blender spent more on formulating.

 

[Ronin73]

You are right, Group III has slightly better solubility than PAO (both still require carrier oils for additives with better solubility), and you can build an excellent oil using Group III. That said, PAO has better cold temperature performance as well as oxidation resistance, doesn't require PPD's to achieve that cold temperature performance and is a more expensive base oil, so if it is being used, you know the blender has made the decision to spend more on that product to formulate it. In my mind, that's choosing performance over cost, though it should be noted that if two products with the same approvals are blended differently, one with Group III one with PAO, the end user is not going to be able to discern the difference and they should perform similarly in service, relative to those approvals. A Mobil 1 oil having better CCS and MRV values than its Castrol competitor while both pass the requirements stipulated by J300 for the grade, points to the blender making choices about other aspects of the product, like choosing to use PAO instead of a thinner base and more VII for example.

Personally, if I can buy two oils for the same price and one is primarily PAO based and the other Group III, I'm going to go for the oil the blender spent more on formulating.

I wonder why the Mobil 1 EP 5w30 has so little PAO in comparison to the 0w20 EP, 0w16 EP, and the 0w20 AFE? The MSDS only shows 5-10%

 

[doublebase]

You are right, Group III has slightly better solubility than PAO (both still require carrier oils for additives with better solubility), and you can build an excellent oil using Group III. That said, PAO has better cold temperature performance as well as oxidation resistance, doesn't require PPD's to achieve that cold temperature performance and is a more expensive base oil, so if it is being used, you know the blender has made the decision to spend more on that product to formulate it. In my mind, that's choosing performance over cost, though it should be noted that if two products with the same approvals are blended differently, one with Group III one with PAO, the end user is not going to be able to discern the difference and they should perform similarly in service, relative to those approvals. A Mobil 1 oil having better CCS and MRV values than its Castrol competitor while both pass the requirements stipulated by J300 for the grade, points to the blender making choices about other aspects of the product, like choosing to use PAO instead of a thinner base and more VII for example.

Personally, if I can buy two oils for the same price and one is primarily PAO based and the other Group III, I'm going to go for the oil the blender spent more on formulating.

Good points, and I agree.

In my particular instance it’s more of a mental thing...I want to mentally think I’m getting something better in this instance (and I probably am), but I’ll be paying a little more for it at this time. I think the price difference right now is $5 bucks per five quart jug, and I’ll need two of them. So I’ll be spending an extra $10 bucks total. Not a big deal, but in all honesty I won’t be able to tell much of a difference I’m sure. But I’ll give it a one shot chance for my next oil change, and then go back to slumming it with my usual stuff I’ll find on sale - and because I’m not finding much on sale right now anyway - it’s only $10 bucks. Well worth the thought I’m getting something “better”. Lol.

 

[ChrisD46]

Actually, it is called Extended Protection just as I said:

Extended Protection Full Synthetic - Valvoline™ Global

Premium motor oil isn’t just for sports cars or luxury vehicles. Today’s engines produce more horsepower in a smaller package to improve fuel efficiency without sacrificing performance. Because engines are working harder, they demand next-level protection. Valvoline Extended Protection Full...

www.valvoline.com

*My Bad - correct , Extended Protection but still not considered a long drain oil .

 

[OVERKILL]

Good points, and I agree.

In my particular instance it’s more of a mental thing...I want to mentally think I’m getting something better in this instance (and I probably am), but I’ll be paying a little more for it at this time. I think the price difference right now is $5 bucks per five quart jug, and I’ll need two of them. So I’ll be spending an extra $10 bucks total. Not a big deal, but in all honesty I won’t be able to tell much of a difference I’m sure. But I’ll give it a one shot chance for my next oil change, and then go back to slumming it with my usual stuff I’ll find on sale - and because I’m not finding much on sale right now anyway - it’s only $10 bucks. Well worth the thought I’m getting something “better”. Lol.

I stock up on M1 EP 0w-20 whenever it is on sale, lol.

 

[OVERKILL]

I wonder why the Mobil 1 EP 5w30 has so little PAO in comparison to the 0w20 EP, 0w16 EP, and the 0w20 AFE? The MSDS only shows 5-10%

PAO is used in higher concentration in their 0W-xx oils in general, you don't need as much of it for the 5W-xx Winter rating.

 

[doublebase]

I stock up on M1 EP 0w-20 whenever it is on sale, lol.

I went out after dinner last night and bought two jugs of Mobil1 EP 0W20, it was only $1.50 more than the Castrol anyway. Not exactly on sale, it was $29 a jug.

But then again while I was in Walmart I saved $30 bucks on a picture frame (that I was going to spend $50 online for). Plus, I think I spent $120 for dinner, and I don’t remember if it was good or not because I ended up getting an extra Mai Tai. I guess it’s all relevant anyway.

 

[tyman]

Considering trying the Castrol Edge EP 0W-20 on my next change, have been using Mobil1 0W-20 EP in my 2020 Honda CRV, UOA's at around 4k are showing 3.5% dilution and a corresponding thinning below grade. This is obviously something I'm going to have to deal with as these 1.5t engines, at least mine have shown themselves as diluters regardless of the "fixes" that Honda has done. The MM has shown 50% at 4k, so running a 0W-20 that's thinned below grade another 2-3k obviously isn't a good plan for longevity. As I have a Hondacare 7-year 120k extended warranty I'm planning on staying with the Honda reccomended 0W-20, well aware that the MM is an algorithm, but obviously, considering the UOA's, is sadly optimistic. Have pretty much come to the conclusion I'm going to be doing changes at 3500/4k, hoping the Castrol might at least stay in grade until 4k, possibly worth a try.

Dang. What are you doing to a 2020 that’s had the software fixes that it’s getting 3.5% dilution

 

[OVERKILL]

Dang. What are you doing to a 2020 that’s had the software fixes that it’s getting 3.5% dilution

I think if more people did non-Blackstone UOA's with labs that use GC, we'd see this is still pretty common with this engine unfortunately.

 

[Speedy3861]

Dang. What are you doing to a 2020 that’s had the software fixes that

Dang. What are you doing to a 26020 that’s had the software fixes that it’s getting 3.5% dilution

Don't have a clue, my 2019 Civic Touring Coupe, driven under the same conditions using Mobil1 0W-20 AFE and running 5k intervals had perfect UOA's with under .5% dilution. My dealer's Certified Master Technician says he sees a lot of CRV's that do this, only current solution is to go to 3k OCI's. He indicated that Honda may have an improved injector in the works, just a rumor at this point. Obviously Honda's "fix" didn't work for all CRV's.

 

[kschachn]

Don't have a clue, my 2019 Civic Touring Coupe, driven under the same conditions using Mobil1 0W-20 AFE and running 5k intervals had perfect UOA's with under .5% dilution. My dealer's Certified Master Technician says he sees a lot of CRV's that do this, only current solution is to go to 3k OCI's. He indicated that Honda may have an improved injector in the works, just a rumor at this point. Obviously Honda's "fix" didn't work for all CRV's.

What method of measuring fuel dilution was used for your UOA?

 

[Speedy3861]

What method of measuring fuel dilution was used for your UOA?

Whatever method Blackstone uses. Been using them for 10+ years, well aware that there are other labs that use different methods, probably should give one a try. However, my 2019 Civic was reliably consistent @ about .5% or less through many samples, all with 5k change intervals, the CRV, operating in essentially the same manner, hasn't had a sample with less than 2.5%, including one taken at 4200 miles showing 3.5% with the OLM indicating 50%, thinned just below grade as a result of the dilution. Perhaps there are more accurate tests, but the OLM showing 50% life remaining under those circumstances, indicates to me that I certainly wouldn't want to put another 1-2k on that oil. Honda's MM is an algorithm, in reality is only an estimate of oil condition and in the case of (at least mine) the CRV is seriously flawed.
Also of interest, my CRV forum won't allow further discussion of oil dilution, insisting that "Honda has solved that problem", but when my Honda dealership indicates "oil level high on dipstick" on the Multipoint Inspection form and has a pre-printed space for that, suggests that there still is a problem. I don't know of other manufacturer's small-displacement Turbocharged DI engines having oil dilution issues, but I'm fairly sure it's happening.

 

[4WD]

Oh I agree, but it is entertaining. The Castrol Edge Extended Performance didn't flow at all in one of the cold flow test comparisons I watched (against Amsoil). The guy actually put a stick in it and the stick held straight up. Lol. But yeah it doesn't really mean anything to me, I never start my car in -50 degree weather.

I suppose that’s because you can do long range oil with a balance of certain base stocks and add packs - and things in the price range of Amsoil can do a good deal of both …