Is there anyone here who prefers carbureted engines to FI ones? If so, why?
Carbureted VS Fuel Injected
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On lawn equipment yes, for price and simplicity.
On a car no, because a carb on a car these days would consist of hundreds of parts and probably be more complex than a FI system.
On motorcycles, I'm on the fence.
On a car no, because a carb on a car these days would consist of hundreds of parts and probably be more complex than a FI system.
On motorcycles, I'm on the fence.
The longer I own a carbureted motorcycle, the more I loathe carburetors. Between the cold-engine behavior and sorting out mixture screws, etc. I can't wait to get a F.I. bike.
I like single simple carbs on dirtbikes and my old snowmobiles. Can't say I've had too many problems with them at all. Multi carbs and carbs messed up on a car due to emmision standards are not much fun. The vacuum diagram on my 1981 olds was a terrible spagetti mess...
Ian
Ian
IMO FI was one of the greatest improvements to hit the modern automobile. More power, more efficient, less trouble, to name a few things. When they computerized the carbs they were the worst PIA's to work on and deal with. Glad they're gone! They have their places on lawn mowers and small equipment.
Two carbs, two cylinders on my yamaha. With the synching etc multiple carbs are a masochist's dream.
Blech... twice the tiny passages... and tinier still since they only each feed half the available power. Add to that winter storage (even "proper" can fail you) and carbs are a real hassle.
I don't mind it on briggs or tecumseh small engines because of the huge interchangability and parts availability... from the dumpster.
Blech... twice the tiny passages... and tinier still since they only each feed half the available power. Add to that winter storage (even "proper" can fail you) and carbs are a real hassle.
I don't mind it on briggs or tecumseh small engines because of the huge interchangability and parts availability... from the dumpster.
depends on the application. in much of racing, they have their setups SO dialed w/ a carb, it works for that. pro stock, NASCAR, etc. NASCAR runs 358ci single cam, OHV carb'd and distributored V8's making around 800hp, running 7-9K RPM all day. when it's dialed, it works.
GM even makes carb intakes for the LS series of engines (and regular distributors!)
for me, there is art in simplicity, pleasure in tuning w/o a computer.
don't get me wrong; a modern injected car is a wonderful thing. but for a fun car, or a project, or a racer, carbs have their place.
GM even makes carb intakes for the LS series of engines (and regular distributors!)
for me, there is art in simplicity, pleasure in tuning w/o a computer.
don't get me wrong; a modern injected car is a wonderful thing. but for a fun car, or a project, or a racer, carbs have their place.
I would take a carb engine with out a second thought. I have never had a problem with a points and carbed leaving me stuck I have had 2 cars with fuel injection leave me stranded.
Originally Posted By: mpvue
depends on the application. in much of racing, they have their setups SO dialed w/ a carb, it works for that. pro stock, NASCAR, etc. NASCAR runs 358ci single cam, OHV carb'd and distributored V8's making around 800hp, running 7-9K RPM all day. when it's dialed, it works.
GM even makes carb intakes for the LS series of engines (and regular distributors!)
for me, there is art in simplicity, pleasure in tuning w/o a computer.
don't get me wrong; a modern injected car is a wonderful thing. but for a fun car, or a project, or a racer, carbs have their place.
All of those guys are running carbs due to rules. Sure, they can be tuned to run great at WOT but it's the idle and in between that suffer from a carb. Road and Track did a test on the new Toyota Nascar engine and specifically commented on the bad drivability and power delivery because of the carb.
There are so many advantages to fuel injection. When I switch over to race gas, no rejetting and messing with needle valves. No popping the hood for that matter. I put my race program in, set a target AF ratio, and it hits it at any rpm at any load using the wideband to check itself. Try that with a carb.
I've watched Kenny Duttweiler fire up a 1,000+hp twin turbo SBC on the dyno that was going into a new groundbreaking S-10 at the time. It had a super lopey idle with the giant cam. I watched as Ken tuned the Motec to where the engine was very tame with only a slight lope at idle.
Not to mention, the carb works by principal by being a restriction with it's venturi.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the "unique" characteristics of an old carb'd big block and the sound of the secondaries opening. The old carb'd cars had more of a soul.
depends on the application. in much of racing, they have their setups SO dialed w/ a carb, it works for that. pro stock, NASCAR, etc. NASCAR runs 358ci single cam, OHV carb'd and distributored V8's making around 800hp, running 7-9K RPM all day. when it's dialed, it works.
GM even makes carb intakes for the LS series of engines (and regular distributors!)
for me, there is art in simplicity, pleasure in tuning w/o a computer.
don't get me wrong; a modern injected car is a wonderful thing. but for a fun car, or a project, or a racer, carbs have their place.
All of those guys are running carbs due to rules. Sure, they can be tuned to run great at WOT but it's the idle and in between that suffer from a carb. Road and Track did a test on the new Toyota Nascar engine and specifically commented on the bad drivability and power delivery because of the carb.
There are so many advantages to fuel injection. When I switch over to race gas, no rejetting and messing with needle valves. No popping the hood for that matter. I put my race program in, set a target AF ratio, and it hits it at any rpm at any load using the wideband to check itself. Try that with a carb.
I've watched Kenny Duttweiler fire up a 1,000+hp twin turbo SBC on the dyno that was going into a new groundbreaking S-10 at the time. It had a super lopey idle with the giant cam. I watched as Ken tuned the Motec to where the engine was very tame with only a slight lope at idle.
Not to mention, the carb works by principal by being a restriction with it's venturi.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the "unique" characteristics of an old carb'd big block and the sound of the secondaries opening. The old carb'd cars had more of a soul.
I forgot about the time my dad's Opel GT died when I was just a little kid. The rotor broke in half. We made it to the auto parts store with the rotor electrical taped together. I guess the older non-electronic stuff isn't as reliable but can be rigged on the side of the road easier.
One thing a carb (like most analog devices) will do that EFI wont is run very poorly for a long time before it wont run anymore. Electronics are more likely to fail without notice.
Originally Posted By: mpvue
depends on the application. in much of racing, they have their setups SO dialed w/ a carb, it works for that. pro stock, NASCAR, etc. NASCAR runs 358ci single cam, OHV carb'd and distributored V8's making around 800hp, running 7-9K RPM all day. when it's dialed, it works.
NASCAR runs carbs and keeps computers out of cars becuase its too hard to measure the specs of a computer injection system vs. a carb.
depends on the application. in much of racing, they have their setups SO dialed w/ a carb, it works for that. pro stock, NASCAR, etc. NASCAR runs 358ci single cam, OHV carb'd and distributored V8's making around 800hp, running 7-9K RPM all day. when it's dialed, it works.
NASCAR runs carbs and keeps computers out of cars becuase its too hard to measure the specs of a computer injection system vs. a carb.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
I forgot about the time my dad's Opel GT died when I was just a little kid. The rotor broke in half. We made it to the auto parts store with the rotor electrical taped together. I guess the older non-electronic stuff isn't as reliable but can be rigged on the side of the road easier.
It is reliable and there is a better chance of getting you home than an electronic device failing and leaving you dead on the road .I have enough experience with both,How hard is it to change points? no hard at all .THe comp comtrolled is real nice though. If I were to place a bet Carb and points would get you home.
I forgot about the time my dad's Opel GT died when I was just a little kid. The rotor broke in half. We made it to the auto parts store with the rotor electrical taped together. I guess the older non-electronic stuff isn't as reliable but can be rigged on the side of the road easier.
It is reliable and there is a better chance of getting you home than an electronic device failing and leaving you dead on the road .I have enough experience with both,How hard is it to change points? no hard at all .THe comp comtrolled is real nice though. If I were to place a bet Carb and points would get you home.
That was kind of my point. I think that the electronic fuel injection systems are less likely to have problems but when they do you will likely be stranded. Older points/rotors/carbs will be more likely to give problems but rarely leave you stranded.
And for $30,00 you could replace all the parts that could quit on the side of the road with a screwdriver and a small cresent wrench. I am 55 years old so I have had enough experience with both. Probably todays emission standards could not be met with a carb and points. I like to say there is a difference between the latest technology and quality. Some people do not know the difference.
I look at it this way, in passenger cars FI is superior to a carb, or we'd still have them. Not sure if the OP was referring to race applications, so I based my opinion on passenger car engines.
I've been working on cheap beaters for ~6 years now... swapping transmissions, doing head gaskets, piston rings, rust repair, pretty much anything that will make a car sell for a couple hundred bucks.
It is telling that the most recent project, and for me the last general category of repair, was a leaking fuel injector. Now I can say I've done it all.
BTW, it caused a no-start, but I recognized the condition, floored the gas, and got it to run with the preprogrammed clear-flood failsafe.
Yes you can clear a flooded carb the same way but you're still sucking over the venturies and squeezing the acellerator pump.
It is telling that the most recent project, and for me the last general category of repair, was a leaking fuel injector. Now I can say I've done it all.
BTW, it caused a no-start, but I recognized the condition, floored the gas, and got it to run with the preprogrammed clear-flood failsafe.
Yes you can clear a flooded carb the same way but you're still sucking over the venturies and squeezing the acellerator pump.
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