Bummed about the China thread closure.
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Propflux01
$100 Site Donor 2025
Could you please show the source of this? I've never read anything like this and I really doubt someone in the Chinese government would say things like that. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Here ya go:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/7/15/94638.shtml
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/07/14/china.taiwan.nuclear.reut/index.html
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You gotta understand ...in the global "population managment" scheme of things we have two choices. We either pacify all populations ..or conquer them. So far ..and for the past 60 years, we've pacified most of the world through the seduction of the comforts of consumerism and free trade. No, they don't play "fair" ..and they won't voluntarily. Japan didn't play "fair" either. They maintained their "Japan for the Japanese" for as long as they could. We sent our jobs over there like lemmings to the sea in droves. They expanded their economy til it was bursting at the seams and still shut us out of market access ...and what happened? They fell flat on their faces with a bunch of $$ that they didn't need. So they devaluated the $$$ and the yen went sky high and they went into recession. They then put the $$$ back into our economy by building Sony and Toyota and Nissan and Mitsubishi and Honda plants ..and re-employed out people so that we could, once again, afford their, more reasonable in number, exports.
If we go broke by China cheating, stealing, hook-crook/lowlife/unfair/dirty/nasty trade and manufacturing policy ...what hanppens? They'll have no one to sell their crap to. Is Japan going to buy from them ..Briton? France? Any of the other "managed trade" nations?? Nope. And anyone who they do sell to ..won't amount to spit compared to the loss of the trade to the Almighty USA.
Now this will, naturally, cause havoc in the transition for us. We'll be recycling our labor as before and will have a "technical correction" for the losses ..but they eventually have got to put it back ..or they have no viable market to sell to. Think partnership in global population managment ..and get back to my second sentence. How are we going to cope with China? Would you prefer that they just sit there ..and watch the rest of the world develop and be happy to be on the short end of the stick with 1/4 of the world's population??....or are we going to eliminate them? Looks like the best and most sensible thing to do is to give a seat at the big table.
They too will be enslaved to our consumerism ...and will build us quality (eventually) products for a few slips of green paper ...just like everyone else does in the world.
If we go broke by China cheating, stealing, hook-crook/lowlife/unfair/dirty/nasty trade and manufacturing policy ...what hanppens? They'll have no one to sell their crap to. Is Japan going to buy from them ..Briton? France? Any of the other "managed trade" nations?? Nope. And anyone who they do sell to ..won't amount to spit compared to the loss of the trade to the Almighty USA.
Now this will, naturally, cause havoc in the transition for us. We'll be recycling our labor as before and will have a "technical correction" for the losses ..but they eventually have got to put it back ..or they have no viable market to sell to. Think partnership in global population managment ..and get back to my second sentence. How are we going to cope with China? Would you prefer that they just sit there ..and watch the rest of the world develop and be happy to be on the short end of the stick with 1/4 of the world's population??....or are we going to eliminate them? Looks like the best and most sensible thing to do is to give a seat at the big table.
They too will be enslaved to our consumerism ...and will build us quality (eventually) products for a few slips of green paper ...just like everyone else does in the world.
The term fair is very subjective. As one of my professor in computer
sciences once said, "my definitition of fair is I get everything I
wanted right away".
Sure, American lost a lot of jobs in manufacturing to China, Japan,
Malaysia, Mexico, etc. But when you look at a financial point of view,
our wages are getting so high that it is impossible that a balanced
trade could occur when everything is made this way. You wouldn't imagine
the big 3 will build their factory in Manhattan, even if that means they
can force every plants outside Manhattan to follow the exact same fair
trade policy, would you?
I lost my last job to Indian IT workers, but I don't blame them, because
it is a fact of life and it is inevitable, if US set a policy against
it, we will lose business to our pal in Europe or Chinese companies.
Or, what do you think about robots replacing factory workers on the
line? Do you blame the robot manufacture? Do you blame the professors in
MIT? It is inevitable as the society move forward.
The same goes on the other side of the fence, Latin American countries
and Africa were angry at EU and US that we force them to open their
market and reduce farming subsidise, yet we are doing this on our own
farm products that we push them out of businesses. They sure blame us
for not being fair, but what do we say? "This will hurt our economy", an
exact quote from Bush, I didn't invent it.
Now back to China, you may think that they are not playing fair in
trades, and I have to admit they don't play by the book 100%. Copy
right, poor sweat shop environment, unsafe work condition, excessive
overtime, etc. It is definitely true there. However, you may notice that
they have even higher unemployment there and the reason they have so
many cheap labor is due to young people rushing to the cities looking
for job so they can send $ home to feed the elders. If you ever see
illegal Mexican immigrants waiting in the intersection of San Diego/LA
looking for day jobs, thats what I am talking about.
To them, a sweatshop is better than starving. American company knows
that too, Gaps and Walmart knew how much to sqeeze their suppliers and a
recent review on CNN mentioned an "egg soymilk" supplier to Walmart got
squeezed so bad in china that they are losing $ every can they sell
(they are already a sweat shop). Another CNN interview indicates that
Home Depot is paying only 10% of selling price to chinese vendor in some
tools they sell.
In the end, I don't think we can blame anyone for who is at fault:
US consumers want the cheapest
US vendor want to sell the cheapest and drive each other out of business
chinese suppliers got squeezed by us vendor
chinese labor got squeezed by chinese suppliers
chinese labors' unemployment problem got the chinese government to be as
aggressive as possible on trades
Maybe we can blame the US housing cost, medical insurance, lawyers with
malpractices, tax, defence budgets, credit card companies, etc. But that
wouldn't be fair either.
sciences once said, "my definitition of fair is I get everything I
wanted right away".
Sure, American lost a lot of jobs in manufacturing to China, Japan,
Malaysia, Mexico, etc. But when you look at a financial point of view,
our wages are getting so high that it is impossible that a balanced
trade could occur when everything is made this way. You wouldn't imagine
the big 3 will build their factory in Manhattan, even if that means they
can force every plants outside Manhattan to follow the exact same fair
trade policy, would you?
I lost my last job to Indian IT workers, but I don't blame them, because
it is a fact of life and it is inevitable, if US set a policy against
it, we will lose business to our pal in Europe or Chinese companies.
Or, what do you think about robots replacing factory workers on the
line? Do you blame the robot manufacture? Do you blame the professors in
MIT? It is inevitable as the society move forward.
The same goes on the other side of the fence, Latin American countries
and Africa were angry at EU and US that we force them to open their
market and reduce farming subsidise, yet we are doing this on our own
farm products that we push them out of businesses. They sure blame us
for not being fair, but what do we say? "This will hurt our economy", an
exact quote from Bush, I didn't invent it.
Now back to China, you may think that they are not playing fair in
trades, and I have to admit they don't play by the book 100%. Copy
right, poor sweat shop environment, unsafe work condition, excessive
overtime, etc. It is definitely true there. However, you may notice that
they have even higher unemployment there and the reason they have so
many cheap labor is due to young people rushing to the cities looking
for job so they can send $ home to feed the elders. If you ever see
illegal Mexican immigrants waiting in the intersection of San Diego/LA
looking for day jobs, thats what I am talking about.
To them, a sweatshop is better than starving. American company knows
that too, Gaps and Walmart knew how much to sqeeze their suppliers and a
recent review on CNN mentioned an "egg soymilk" supplier to Walmart got
squeezed so bad in china that they are losing $ every can they sell
(they are already a sweat shop). Another CNN interview indicates that
Home Depot is paying only 10% of selling price to chinese vendor in some
tools they sell.
In the end, I don't think we can blame anyone for who is at fault:
US consumers want the cheapest
US vendor want to sell the cheapest and drive each other out of business
chinese suppliers got squeezed by us vendor
chinese labor got squeezed by chinese suppliers
chinese labors' unemployment problem got the chinese government to be as
aggressive as possible on trades
Maybe we can blame the US housing cost, medical insurance, lawyers with
malpractices, tax, defence budgets, credit card companies, etc. But that
wouldn't be fair either.
JHZR2
Staff member
NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
But if I cant blame anybody, then I cant be happy. Its somebody's fault (other than mine of course).
Modern society (well, every society ever I suppose), needs somebody to blame for the ills that are a result of things just being how they are and evolving in time.
IMO, its a little bit of blame on a LOT of things. Some are more to blame than others, but in the end, its all small change. We are all to blame to some extent for the way things are, no escaping it, and its almost not worth it to discuss, because it will always be something or another to be upset, worried, bothered, or mad about.
JMH
Once again, Gary is the voice of reason here
Anyone who thinks that we caused the revolution in Russia due to the USA outspending Russia in the arms race, is barking up the wrong tree. The Russian people got tired of lousy jobs and lousy consumer goods. We just gave them a little push.
All the Chinese people want is a job, and the ability to buy consumer goods. As Gary puts it: "They too will be enslaved to our consumerism ". The Chinese Government will not be able to stop it.
JHZR2
Staff member
the real problem is that people feel threatened by this, and it causes anger and eventually political pressure which starts doing funky things to everything.
Its not that "All the Chinese people want is a job", its that to MANY people, All Chinese people want is YOUR job.
Are the trade practices they use fair? Nope... Especially when your in an at-risk job. But what is fair? A lot of practices here at home arent fair unless youre a member of the "elete" "planter class" of old, maybe now known as the "oil class" these days.
I think the problem is that everyone wants to have things their way only, and don't realize that to ebb and flow is the only reality in life. Things change, and if that thing is the job youre in or the things you buy or whatnot, it is what it is. Something will change sooner or later, better or worse, and the best you can do is not worry yourself to death about it, prepare for the worst but anticipate the best, and take things as they come.
JMH
We can still ask for fair trade practices.
What China may consider to be normal and acceptable doesnt mean that such applies to trading partners.
When a trade agreement is reached between a group,it is the duty and responsability of those involved to enforce the terms in the agreement.
I think that Pablo and others are wanting fair and equal trade,something that just isnt happening right now with China.
What China may consider to be normal and acceptable doesnt mean that such applies to trading partners.
When a trade agreement is reached between a group,it is the duty and responsability of those involved to enforce the terms in the agreement.
I think that Pablo and others are wanting fair and equal trade,something that just isnt happening right now with China.
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