Brand new silverado metal shavings
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Originally Posted By: stower17
Changing the oil now isnt going to stop the metal shavings from reappearing, it'll stop when the engine breaks in. The filter will capture the metal. Any oil in the sump hasnt been filtered yet... i bet that oil is plenty good once it goes thru the filter i bet it looks like new. Magic!
There's a problem with this thinking - not all oil goes through a filter. Yeah, sure it will eventually, but cylinders, piston skirts and cams are all lubed by "sling oil" and windage from the crankshaft. The sling oil may be filtered, but any windage oil thrown up is just what's laying in the pan .. It can throw metal up to embed in the piston skirts.
In addition, metal particles have to go through the oil pump to get to the filter. That's hard on the pump ...
IF I see little metal bits on the dip stick (it could have been slightly magnetized during forming...), I'd change the oil right now! I'd install a new filter (what if it has a tear internally...), and I'd install a magnetic drain plug. This could be a confluence of things ...
Then I'd watch all this again and see what happens?
Oil's cheap, motors not so much. And even if it is covered under warranty eventually, why go there when you may not have to? It will be time consuming if nothing else ...
What happens if you install a new filter that has a hole in it? Youre worse off then just leaving it alone because the parts continue shedding a lot until the engine is broken in. What happens if you do an oil change during break in and the fresh oil youre pouring in happens to dislodge a sliver of metal and it lands in a bearing. Id rather let oil pressure flow the contaminants away rather then a flood of oil wash everything everywhere. Also the thought of starting a new engine after an oil change when the parts havent worn in together and it takes a few seconds to build pressure... ouch.
Just my opinion to leave the FF in.
Originally Posted By: stower17
Changing the oil now isnt going to stop the metal shavings from reappearing, it'll stop when the engine breaks in. The filter will capture the metal. Any oil in the sump hasnt been filtered yet... i bet that oil is plenty good once it goes thru the filter i bet it looks like new. Magic!
There's a problem with this thinking - not all oil goes through a filter. Yeah, sure it will eventually, but cylinders, piston skirts and cams are all lubed by "sling oil" and windage from the crankshaft. The sling oil may be filtered, but any windage oil thrown up is just what's laying in the pan .. It can throw metal up to embed in the piston skirts.
In addition, metal particles have to go through the oil pump to get to the filter. That's hard on the pump ...
IF I see little metal bits on the dip stick (it could have been slightly magnetized during forming...), I'd change the oil right now! I'd install a new filter (what if it has a tear internally...), and I'd install a magnetic drain plug. This could be a confluence of things ...
Then I'd watch all this again and see what happens?
Oil's cheap, motors not so much. And even if it is covered under warranty eventually, why go there when you may not have to? It will be time consuming if nothing else ...
What happens if you install a new filter that has a hole in it? Youre worse off then just leaving it alone because the parts continue shedding a lot until the engine is broken in. What happens if you do an oil change during break in and the fresh oil youre pouring in happens to dislodge a sliver of metal and it lands in a bearing. Id rather let oil pressure flow the contaminants away rather then a flood of oil wash everything everywhere. Also the thought of starting a new engine after an oil change when the parts havent worn in together and it takes a few seconds to build pressure... ouch.
Just my opinion to leave the FF in.
You'all are missing what happens in a crankcase or bearing case. There are two kinds of oil. Filtered and fed. And splash and windage.
The splash and windage kind does not get filtered first. It is whatever is in the crankcase. If you never rev the engine, it will be 99% slung oil from a filtered source like coming off rod bearings.
But if you spin that motor as you should occasionally during break-in to prevent ring ridge formation, you will enter windage ... And once you do, you are broadcasting any shaved metal through-out the lower reciprocating assembly.
Why on earth would you drive an engine with visible metal shavings or dust known to be in the oil... Get it out !!
And get a magnet in there via the drain plug to start collecting the bits that may not go through the oil pick-up screen ... Then you can monitor metal production via inspection at every oil change.
This is not microscopic or colloidal metal that gets discovered in a UOA, This is visible abrasive metal ...
The splash and windage kind does not get filtered first. It is whatever is in the crankcase. If you never rev the engine, it will be 99% slung oil from a filtered source like coming off rod bearings.
But if you spin that motor as you should occasionally during break-in to prevent ring ridge formation, you will enter windage ... And once you do, you are broadcasting any shaved metal through-out the lower reciprocating assembly.
Why on earth would you drive an engine with visible metal shavings or dust known to be in the oil... Get it out !!
And get a magnet in there via the drain plug to start collecting the bits that may not go through the oil pick-up screen ... Then you can monitor metal production via inspection at every oil change.
This is not microscopic or colloidal metal that gets discovered in a UOA, This is visible abrasive metal ...
Originally Posted By: stower17
Doesnt the oil get picked by the sump and immediately goes thru the filter, then clean oil goes throughout the engine? At least all the engines ive ever dealt with operate this way.
The PUMP gets oil before it's filtered, all modern engines(at least since '60s) work in this fashion... Earlier engines used a bypass filter where a portion of the oil was directed to filter then to engine(or maybe directly back to oil pan)... At the least some unfiltered oil was always fed to engine... Of course engines without a filter have no filtration at all(but that's obvious)..
If you hung a dry filter before the pump, it would likely loose prime before filter could fill and there would be no oil pressure at all...
Doesnt the oil get picked by the sump and immediately goes thru the filter, then clean oil goes throughout the engine? At least all the engines ive ever dealt with operate this way.
The PUMP gets oil before it's filtered, all modern engines(at least since '60s) work in this fashion... Earlier engines used a bypass filter where a portion of the oil was directed to filter then to engine(or maybe directly back to oil pan)... At the least some unfiltered oil was always fed to engine... Of course engines without a filter have no filtration at all(but that's obvious)..
If you hung a dry filter before the pump, it would likely loose prime before filter could fill and there would be no oil pressure at all...
Bottom line, oil change costs $30-$40 bucks. $30 bucks compared to a $40-50K rig is a no brainer. Those that prefer to take the risk, you keep running the oil. Those of you who prefer to take a proactive approach, change the oil/filter. Install a known filter product. Auto Mfg's do not install top grade filtration. If in fact you are seeing wear debris, what would make one think the filter is not coated with the same debris, much less the premature damage this could cause if it is wear debris. If your oil becomes dark, it is oxidized, change it. If it becomes dark/oxidized before the recommended change, might consider using a different product....
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I'd dump it immediately if I saw metal shavings on the dip stick, and cut the filter open. I'd also let the oil settle in the drain pan and look for sparkling shavings in the bottom.
I would've changed the oil as soon as I got the truck home from the dealer. And then I would've changed it again at 300 miles. Wouldn't be any 0W-20 in there either.
Exactly
OP,if you were concerned enough to start a thread then its probably best you just change the oil and sleep well tonight. I, personally wouldn't but thats just me.
Now, OPE with no oil filter? I change the oil 3-4 times within the first couple of hours on a new engine. Used to work with a repair shop for OPE warranty service and it was incredible comparaing engines with the same hours on them with one serviced frequently when new and the other one not. Theres so much wear metal thats not being filtered it really wears down the cylinder walls and rings in a short matter of time and they will burn a much, much higher amount of oil.
Now, OPE with no oil filter? I change the oil 3-4 times within the first couple of hours on a new engine. Used to work with a repair shop for OPE warranty service and it was incredible comparaing engines with the same hours on them with one serviced frequently when new and the other one not. Theres so much wear metal thats not being filtered it really wears down the cylinder walls and rings in a short matter of time and they will burn a much, much higher amount of oil.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I would've changed the oil as soon as I got the truck home from the dealer. And then I would've changed it again at 300 miles. Wouldn't be any 0W-20 in there either.
So you would have changed the oil after say 20 miles then again at 300 miles? Seems a bit excessive, and the new engines take 8.5 quarts, that would get expensive for a good feeling.
You do realize that GM adamantly insists on 0W-20 in the new GM Ecotec3 engines? The new Ecotec3 engines have a new variable displacement oil pump. GM insists that the engine was designed to use 0W-20 oil for improved lubrication. I sure that GM spent thousands of hours and millions of miles testing these new engines with 0W-20, what the heck do they know?
I would've changed the oil as soon as I got the truck home from the dealer. And then I would've changed it again at 300 miles. Wouldn't be any 0W-20 in there either.
So you would have changed the oil after say 20 miles then again at 300 miles? Seems a bit excessive, and the new engines take 8.5 quarts, that would get expensive for a good feeling.
You do realize that GM adamantly insists on 0W-20 in the new GM Ecotec3 engines? The new Ecotec3 engines have a new variable displacement oil pump. GM insists that the engine was designed to use 0W-20 oil for improved lubrication. I sure that GM spent thousands of hours and millions of miles testing these new engines with 0W-20, what the heck do they know?
So did buying a $40K truck for a good feeling...
Oil's a maintenance thing. Look at the evidence in front of you and act accordingly. Cost is not the primary consideration when trying to find a solution to an obvious issue staring you in the face ...
Oil's a maintenance thing. Look at the evidence in front of you and act accordingly. Cost is not the primary consideration when trying to find a solution to an obvious issue staring you in the face ...
95% of new vehicles have owners that NEVER look at the dipstick.
How often do engines die due to "shavings" from break-in?
This is way overblown. Change it if you WANT to. Your engine won't know the difference.
How often do engines die due to "shavings" from break-in?
This is way overblown. Change it if you WANT to. Your engine won't know the difference.
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