Blade angles on cheap table saw

[JHZR2]

I managed to get a free never used ridgid planer, and a slightly used Skil table,saw. The planer is around $350, the saw is a $149 special kind of thing.

I wanted to try the table saw for a plywood box project I'm going to do (same reason I was asking about clamps). I was just going to use a fence and circular saw, easy, but I figured I'd try the table saw.

I went through the blade checkouts per the manual... I just can't get the angles right.

Using a combination square, I set the 90 degree blade alignment. Done. Then go to the 45. Way off. Fix that, look at the indicator reading... 43 degrees. Calibrate that to 45, then the reading for 90 is way off!

In other words, using the indicators means that everything is highly inaccurate.

I can't even joke about it being worth what you pay for, because this is free stuff...

But is there anything else I should consider if the readings arent looking right? Perhaps it is just Chinese decal application issues or something... But the combination square doesn't lie (actually they do, 45 degrees in my old cheap empire square is different from my much newer empire true blue square). The blade alignment front to back was perfect, fwiw.

I'm scared of kickback, so want to be doubly careful. If I use this thing a lot, I may go buy the ridgid 4515 heavy and solid table saw.

Or at least build a sled for this one.

Thanks!

 

[spasm3]

Make sure the blade is not bent. You probably did that but just in case. See how much play is in the motor, see if there is a lot of in and out movement of the blade.

 

[sleddriver]

Those were good finds. Now you have to learn to tune & trust them. With the planer unplugged, set a mirror down on the base (the larger, the better) and examine the knife edges as you rotate the cutter head. If you see any nicks, you'll have to replace that knife to get a smooth surface. Depending upon the model, there will be other checks as well. Beware of snipe.

Re: Table Saw. My old Grizzly is the same. I use a 45-90-45 triangle and always make test cuts. When I dial it in, I use a small C-clamp on the rear trunion to lock it in place. I do the same when set to 90°.

You're wise to be afraid of a TS and kickback. It's not something to be taken lightly. It is dangerous. My saw has taken A LOT of work to true it up. Very frustrating for a beginner. Duginsky (?) wrote a great book on tuning woodworking machines for Tauton Press. FW's former shop manager also wrote a good one...can't remember his name at the moment though. I use several sleds on on my saw, depending on what type of joint or cut I want to make. Learning to make an accurate sled is a great learning experience.

ALWAYS check the fence clearance at both the front & rear of a saw blade when tilting it as some will not remain true, and thus kickback.

One more word of advice: Don't Ever Use A TS When You're Already Having a Bad Day!

 

[spasm3]

To follow up on his post, don't have any distractions around you when using the saw, like children or pets. And i prefer to wear short sleeve tight fitting t shirts when cutting.

 

[expat]

The only time I have experienced kick back, was on a cheap light weight table saw. I was ripping a board, pushed a little too hard, I guess the table saw moved, either on it's legs or the fence moved and Bam! Fortunately I was not standing directly behind the blade. But it bruised my shoulder even through a thick work jacket.

I feel a lot safer with a solid, heavy saw. the Ridgid 4515 is a good one for the money. The Delta professional saws are good also. Buy by the lb, heavy is good!

There is a very good video on YouTube by Diresta on table saw use. That saw just about took his pinky finger off. He explains who and why.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

There are a lot of videos and information available that will show a novice how to tune and true up a table saw. I'm not familiar with the $149 consumer grade table saws, so I'm not sure if it will ever be really accurate. For a decent level of accuracy you'll probably need a better quality saw, although yours should be good for occasionally ripping. I find that I often use my radial arm saw rather than my table saw unless I'm ripping a large number of boards-the radial arm saw is the more convenient of the two.

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I'm scared of kickback


There's nothing to be frightened of. Just respect it and use a little common sense; think about what you're doing before you do it.

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
If I use this thing a lot, I may go buy the ridgid 4515 heavy and solid table saw.


If you keep your eyes open you can find some very good quality table saws on the used market for a fraction of their original cost. New is nice, but the common homeowner doesn't need to invest that much money in a table saw to get a very good quality saw.

 

[Donald]

I inherited my Dad's Delta Unisaw. Its the one to get if you can afford one.

 

[andyd]

Yah, I've got a 10" Delta, I bought back around 1980. I have just replaced blades in that time. I used it to mill the inside trim out of knotty pine, that I harvested from an old cafeteria. I haven't trued the adjustments, I check angles with a square. I like to recycle wood. and it has handled everything.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit


Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I'm scared of kickback


There's nothing to be frightened of. Just respect it and use a little common sense; think about what you're doing before you do it.

If you keep your eyes open you can find some very good quality table saws on the used market for a fraction of their original cost. New is nice, but the common homeowner doesn't need to invest that much money in a table saw to get a very good quality saw.


I agree.

Looking at the ridgid 4515 again. It does not appear to be a belt driven saw like some of the better hybrid and proffesional cabinet table saws.

I'm sure for about the same money you could pick up a very nice second hand General or other good cabinet saw.
There are also some real steals in the form of old radial arm saws for as little of $50.

But I would never use a RA saw for ripping, THAT is just too scary for me.

 

[spasm3]

I'm not sure which saw the 4515 is. I have the 4513 I used it to do all the case work for my interior door project. I ripped several long pieces of oak with ease. Also used it to make the floor threshold board.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3579759

It is a direct drive, not as stable or precise as a belt driven saw, but has plenty of power. I was using an 80 tooth freud blade. Its very portable and easy to store. I did take the blade guard off as i just can't get used to them.

 

[expat]

The first thing to make for any table saw.

http://makezine.com/2015/03/12/diresta-push-sticks/

 

[JHZR2]

I used a combination square and a quality straightedge to verify that the blade wasn't bent. I have the 90 and 45 set right now in terms of the check-out with the square.

I calibrated the indicator to show that it was at 0 degrees spot on whe the blade is vertical, but when the blade is correctly at 45 degrees (and is repeatable set there, it is very consistent), the indicator shows about 43.5 degrees, can't go any higher because of physical stops.

I guess the key is to never trust those things anyway. I'm guessing that most everyone has some sort of a protractor to set the cut angle precisely, no? If so, what's the best one to use?

 

[HangFire]

It sounds like you're figuring it out.

I have a cheap Skil 3400 table saw. The measurement scale on the front is off by 3/16" inch, so I don't use it. I never used the angle indicators, unless the angle really doesn't matter. Every setup on a table saw should be verified before the cut is made, anyway.

It's not joy to use, but I've gotten a lot of good work done with it. I'll get something better when I get a good deal. I've already gotten my $99 closeout cost out of it.

I use the protractors in my Grandad's machinist box. Probably not useful information for you.

 

[expat]

Seems like the blade won't swing a full 45 degrees before hitting a stop.
You may have to make an adjustment by filing down a stop in order to get sufficient rotation.

But realistically, I don't think you are working with a precision machine here. You seem like a guy that sets high standards. I think the saw you have could well frustrate you.

 

[JHZR2]

It does swing a full 45 degrees. My true blue combo square, which is very tightly machined, shows good and repeatable alignment now at 45 and 90.

Problem just is the indicator... I have it consistently reading 0 when vertical, but with all that lined up, it only reads 43.5 when at 45. Both ends are right, it's the scale that's off.

So, what's a good protractor to use to check blade angle when not at 45 or 90? I assume that's the best practice anyway...

 

[expat]

I might often use 22.5 degrees, 30 degrees and I have blocks of wood (very old oak) cut to check those angles, but the protractor on my saw seems pretty accurate. So I ether trust it or cut mulitple test peices to measure the accumulated angle for accuracy.

ie. 10+10+10 degrees - 30 degrees, so the 10 must be accurate.

 

[spasm3]

I also have blocks cut at 22.5 and 45. I dial the blade until its right with the block. really thats the only angles i cut regularly with the saw. Anything else is usually a one off cut for one job. I never go by the indicator, just no way they can be accurate.

 

[FastLane]

I run a Dewalt table saw. Most saw blades that are given with the tool aren't the greatest until you start to spend some money. Freud makes first rate blades in my opinion. I just ordered a new blade for a brand new Milwaukee miter saw. The factory blade is only good for 2x4's.