Best driving pattern when running fuel cleaner
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All I know from personal experience(last 20 years up til last week) is that Redline SL-1 and BG44K have performed very well and did show seat in the pants results on vehicles that I know had fuel system issues... BG still is the best even though some of you think it does not have any PEA.
The other ones mentioned here did not show me much if anything. Even Techron did not show much of a difference after use...
I do know all about PEA amounts, etc BUT I know what works and what does not...
The other ones mentioned here did not show me much if anything. Even Techron did not show much of a difference after use...
I do know all about PEA amounts, etc BUT I know what works and what does not...
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Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
All I know from personal experience(last 20 years up til last week) is that Redline SL-1 and BG44K have performed very well and did show seat in the pants results on vehicles that I know had fuel system issues... BG still is the best even though some of you think it does not have any PEA.
The other ones mentioned here did not show me much if anything. Even Techron did not show much of a difference after use...
I do know all about PEA amounts, etc BUT I know what works and what does not...
Don't be fooled by the octane enhancer that some brands put in their cleaners to make you think the cleaner is working better than it is making you falsely believe because the car feels more responsive almost instantly that the detergents are working more effectively. Usually the good detergents will work gradually over a period of a week or two. While you won't notice any performance improvement the engine idle should be smoother and more steady though from the PEA or other detergents.
All I know from personal experience(last 20 years up til last week) is that Redline SL-1 and BG44K have performed very well and did show seat in the pants results on vehicles that I know had fuel system issues... BG still is the best even though some of you think it does not have any PEA.
The other ones mentioned here did not show me much if anything. Even Techron did not show much of a difference after use...
I do know all about PEA amounts, etc BUT I know what works and what does not...
Don't be fooled by the octane enhancer that some brands put in their cleaners to make you think the cleaner is working better than it is making you falsely believe because the car feels more responsive almost instantly that the detergents are working more effectively. Usually the good detergents will work gradually over a period of a week or two. While you won't notice any performance improvement the engine idle should be smoother and more steady though from the PEA or other detergents.
Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
All I know from personal experience(last 20 years up til last week) is that Redline SL-1 and BG44K have performed very well and did show seat in the pants results on vehicles that I know had fuel system issues... BG still is the best even though some of you think it does not have any PEA.
The other ones mentioned here did not show me much if anything. Even Techron did not show much of a difference after use...
I do know all about PEA amounts, etc BUT I know what works and what does not...
Don't be fooled by the octane enhancer that some brands put in their cleaners to make you think the cleaner is working better than it is making you falsely believe because the car feels more responsive almost instantly that the detergents are working more effectively. Usually the good detergents will work gradually over a period of a week or two. While you won't notice any performance improvement the engine idle should be smoother and more steady though from the PEA or other detergents.
I have been around to long to believe these products would work right after application/pour in the tank. LOL...
I notice improvements after a full tank run or even if I decide to run the application twice in a row(two full tanks). The idle does improve sometimes after a half tank or so. Depends on condition of the fuel system and engine.
I also believe these products work better if they are in the tank for a week or so...
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
All I know from personal experience(last 20 years up til last week) is that Redline SL-1 and BG44K have performed very well and did show seat in the pants results on vehicles that I know had fuel system issues... BG still is the best even though some of you think it does not have any PEA.
The other ones mentioned here did not show me much if anything. Even Techron did not show much of a difference after use...
I do know all about PEA amounts, etc BUT I know what works and what does not...
Don't be fooled by the octane enhancer that some brands put in their cleaners to make you think the cleaner is working better than it is making you falsely believe because the car feels more responsive almost instantly that the detergents are working more effectively. Usually the good detergents will work gradually over a period of a week or two. While you won't notice any performance improvement the engine idle should be smoother and more steady though from the PEA or other detergents.
I have been around to long to believe these products would work right after application/pour in the tank. LOL...
I notice improvements after a full tank run or even if I decide to run the application twice in a row(two full tanks). The idle does improve sometimes after a half tank or so. Depends on condition of the fuel system and engine.
I also believe these products work better if they are in the tank for a week or so...
I'm surprised that NO POSTERS have listed the High Priced Fuel Injector cleaning that the dealer or the shop offer?
For $100 to $200 they will clean up your fuel injection system and your car will run like new!
For me.....I add a little blended mix of Chevron Techron FS cleaner and TC-W3 at each fill-up. 3 ounces of each to 14 to 15 gallons of gasoline for highway high speed long drives or just driving on short trips around the city. It goes into my fuel at each fill up and have not had any problems since.
Too bad I can't buy Chevron/Texaco gas locally. That would be my staple brand of gasoline if they sold it in my market.
For $100 to $200 they will clean up your fuel injection system and your car will run like new!
For me.....I add a little blended mix of Chevron Techron FS cleaner and TC-W3 at each fill-up. 3 ounces of each to 14 to 15 gallons of gasoline for highway high speed long drives or just driving on short trips around the city. It goes into my fuel at each fill up and have not had any problems since.
Too bad I can't buy Chevron/Texaco gas locally. That would be my staple brand of gasoline if they sold it in my market.
It took me 9 months of 15 mile runs each way to clean out the fuel system/ combustion chambers. My 528e will go 70 MPH in 2. It is turning 5k RPM. In 3 it will do 105 at 5k. No cleaners were used , just cheapo 87 octane gas. It was fun, and the engine loved it.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Drive er hard. Get the fuel pressure up in the lines to spray hard with a heavy volume of fuel. High rpms will move alot of air thru the valves thereby a better chance of blowing off deposits.
When I was a kid I worked at Goodyear. They had 14 bays and were a very big shop. The boss would take sluggish vehicles out for a high rev ride. Flooring it often and added a liter of xylene to the fuel. He would drive the cars at high rpms for at least 20 minutes. He called it an Italian tune up. There wasn't fuel injection yet,all carb'ed.
Anyways once he came back the sluggishness was gone,cars were as responsive as they came new. He said the velocity of airflow and the large amount of the treated fuel running thru the valves would dissolve deposits.
It stands to reason treated fuel would clean faster when moving faster.
Think about water at a sink. Which cleans better? The running water at slow,medium or full blast,or just soaking.
Makes sense to me. It is late though
I do have one bad experiance in regards to the Italian tune up. When we were young Me and my friends were hanging out and decided to go get some booze or something and my car was out of gas so we decided to take my buddies moms car. I idled it for a minute then pulled out of the driveway. we got out of our subdivision and i pulled out onto the main road. I lightly accelerated to about 20kmh and shifted at about 3000 rpm. as soon as I pushed in the clutch it stalled and would not start just turned over really fast. We later found out that the timing belt broke cause the car never seen over 2000 rpm at any given moment.
So I guess reving the heck out of a car that has never seen high revs might be a bad thing if a weak part lets go.
But for the question of how to drive with fuel system cleaner in it is imo regular driving with the use of full throttle once and a while. The bottle of penzoil fuel system cleaner started to work reall good in my truck when a driver pee'd me off and I past then with full throttle through four gears. the next light my truck was idling smoother than 3 minutes before that. I dont know if the full throttle operation was helping the cleaner but I do full throttle runs about once every two or three days and the truck didnt clean itself out until the cleaner was added.
Drive er hard. Get the fuel pressure up in the lines to spray hard with a heavy volume of fuel. High rpms will move alot of air thru the valves thereby a better chance of blowing off deposits.
When I was a kid I worked at Goodyear. They had 14 bays and were a very big shop. The boss would take sluggish vehicles out for a high rev ride. Flooring it often and added a liter of xylene to the fuel. He would drive the cars at high rpms for at least 20 minutes. He called it an Italian tune up. There wasn't fuel injection yet,all carb'ed.
Anyways once he came back the sluggishness was gone,cars were as responsive as they came new. He said the velocity of airflow and the large amount of the treated fuel running thru the valves would dissolve deposits.
It stands to reason treated fuel would clean faster when moving faster.
Think about water at a sink. Which cleans better? The running water at slow,medium or full blast,or just soaking.
Makes sense to me. It is late though
I do have one bad experiance in regards to the Italian tune up. When we were young Me and my friends were hanging out and decided to go get some booze or something and my car was out of gas so we decided to take my buddies moms car. I idled it for a minute then pulled out of the driveway. we got out of our subdivision and i pulled out onto the main road. I lightly accelerated to about 20kmh and shifted at about 3000 rpm. as soon as I pushed in the clutch it stalled and would not start just turned over really fast. We later found out that the timing belt broke cause the car never seen over 2000 rpm at any given moment.
So I guess reving the heck out of a car that has never seen high revs might be a bad thing if a weak part lets go.
But for the question of how to drive with fuel system cleaner in it is imo regular driving with the use of full throttle once and a while. The bottle of penzoil fuel system cleaner started to work reall good in my truck when a driver pee'd me off and I past then with full throttle through four gears. the next light my truck was idling smoother than 3 minutes before that. I dont know if the full throttle operation was helping the cleaner but I do full throttle runs about once every two or three days and the truck didnt clean itself out until the cleaner was added.
The standard method used to measure fuel detergent effectiveness is ASTM D 6201. This method takes 100 hours and 250 gallons of fuel. I don't recall the RPM, but I think that it is about 1800 RMP. Since most of us would use 10% of that amount of fuel (15-20 gallons or 1 tank), we can get a longer retention time on the injectors by normal, short-trip driving.
So I'm 3/4 of a tank through and performance has improved significantly. I would say it improved quite early on in the tank and has been getting better and better.
Here are some details that someone might find interesting:
I used an entire bottle of Gumout All In One that can treat 35 gallons in an 18 gallon tank.
It's been in for 3 weeks now.
It's done a mixture of freeway journeys and short trips.
I have several WOT's and on a 15 minute stretch on the freeway I disengaged OD and drove at about 80mph which was over 4k rpm.
Both performance and fuel economy have improved. The engine clearly spins more freely. I can't unfortunately hold gear apart from disengaging OD and I haven't been able to drive on an empty enough freeway or other road to do several back to back WOT's to the redline.
I plan to do another dose prior to the next oil change. I'll buy the same All In One but this time use the normal dosage and use the other half in my other car which previously got Techron Concentrate Plus.
I've also located a cheap Chevron gas station and will try to use that in future.
One of my observations though is that there is probably no need to do WOT's, especially since none of the additive manufacturer's mention it. I think that normal driving patterns are fine.
Another observation, on a car I previously owned from new, which had direct and port injection, I had never used additives and only sometimes used top tier. Prior to returning it, with 40k on it, I decided to have some fun with it and drove it near the redline on the freeway in 2nd gear a few times. The next day, it immediately felt better.
By doing WOT's or an Italian tune up with fuel additive in the tank, my sense is that some of the cleaning effect is going to come from the rpm regardless of the additive.
In these cases, it's hard to actually say whether the fuel additive did anything.
Lastly, I like the idea of using the All in One as it has a friction modifier. It is also cheaper than the regular Gumout ie 6 oz of regular treats 21 gallon, while 10 oz of All In One treats 35 gallons. Based on the bottle quantity to treatment ratio, I would say that it contains the same % of PEA. So for $8 you get two treatments plus a friction modifier vs for $5 you get one treatment.
Here are some details that someone might find interesting:
I used an entire bottle of Gumout All In One that can treat 35 gallons in an 18 gallon tank.
It's been in for 3 weeks now.
It's done a mixture of freeway journeys and short trips.
I have several WOT's and on a 15 minute stretch on the freeway I disengaged OD and drove at about 80mph which was over 4k rpm.
Both performance and fuel economy have improved. The engine clearly spins more freely. I can't unfortunately hold gear apart from disengaging OD and I haven't been able to drive on an empty enough freeway or other road to do several back to back WOT's to the redline.
I plan to do another dose prior to the next oil change. I'll buy the same All In One but this time use the normal dosage and use the other half in my other car which previously got Techron Concentrate Plus.
I've also located a cheap Chevron gas station and will try to use that in future.
One of my observations though is that there is probably no need to do WOT's, especially since none of the additive manufacturer's mention it. I think that normal driving patterns are fine.
Another observation, on a car I previously owned from new, which had direct and port injection, I had never used additives and only sometimes used top tier. Prior to returning it, with 40k on it, I decided to have some fun with it and drove it near the redline on the freeway in 2nd gear a few times. The next day, it immediately felt better.
By doing WOT's or an Italian tune up with fuel additive in the tank, my sense is that some of the cleaning effect is going to come from the rpm regardless of the additive.
In these cases, it's hard to actually say whether the fuel additive did anything.
Lastly, I like the idea of using the All in One as it has a friction modifier. It is also cheaper than the regular Gumout ie 6 oz of regular treats 21 gallon, while 10 oz of All In One treats 35 gallons. Based on the bottle quantity to treatment ratio, I would say that it contains the same % of PEA. So for $8 you get two treatments plus a friction modifier vs for $5 you get one treatment.
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Thanks for the feedback, the WOT aspect has other benefits with no cleaner in the tank remaining either way. It can help blow off deposits from valves(INT or EX), allows most fuel through injectors, etc.
I'd say if symptoms eventually return and you repeat your efforts as similarly as possible, see if it's repeatable. That's the next step, your opinion on the matter will be refined on it as your experience is refined.
I'd say if symptoms eventually return and you repeat your efforts as similarly as possible, see if it's repeatable. That's the next step, your opinion on the matter will be refined on it as your experience is refined.
I seem to remember someone quoting from the Ford Manual about running around 3,000 RPMs or so for several miles to help with deposits. Just take the transmission out of Overdrive and that would put you close to that range. I obviously wouldn't do that until the engine was up to operating temperature though. YMMV
Over the last year I've done that and it wasn't enough.
Cleaning the throttle body and then adding the Gumout really seem to have made a difference.
I will add some history about this car.
Purchased 1 year old with 24k on it.
For 2 more years, up to ~50k it got a good amount of highway usage as well as shorter trips.
For the next 3 or so years, it began to see a lot of short journeys with very little highway usage.
Throughout this time, it got quality oil changes every 6 months. Looking down the oil fill hole, it has always been spotless. But it did not get top tier gas.
Once I became more informed, I made sure it got on the freeway more often and pushed it, but 3 seperate things really improved the performance more than that:
1) Complete transmision fluid change
2) Cleaning the throttle body
3) PEA Fuel Additive
Cleaning the throttle body and then adding the Gumout really seem to have made a difference.
I will add some history about this car.
Purchased 1 year old with 24k on it.
For 2 more years, up to ~50k it got a good amount of highway usage as well as shorter trips.
For the next 3 or so years, it began to see a lot of short journeys with very little highway usage.
Throughout this time, it got quality oil changes every 6 months. Looking down the oil fill hole, it has always been spotless. But it did not get top tier gas.
Once I became more informed, I made sure it got on the freeway more often and pushed it, but 3 seperate things really improved the performance more than that:
1) Complete transmision fluid change
2) Cleaning the throttle body
3) PEA Fuel Additive
I'm using Costco gas, from a station that doesn't use Costco's 'clean power'. I'm curious if switching to only top-tier(not sure if Costco's Clean Power is considered that? there is a Costco with that a little further away from me) would affect anything in my car. Going to try 87 octane top tier first and work my way up.
I have Shell and Exxon stations around, any recommendations?
I have Shell and Exxon stations around, any recommendations?
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
I'm using Costco gas, from a station that doesn't use Costco's 'clean power'. I'm curious if switching to only top-tier(not sure if Costco's Clean Power is considered that? there is a Costco with that a little further away from me) would affect anything in my car. Going to try 87 octane top tier first and work my way up.
I have Shell and Exxon stations around, any recommendations?
You have a Shell there, use that. Excellent gas.
I'm using Costco gas, from a station that doesn't use Costco's 'clean power'. I'm curious if switching to only top-tier(not sure if Costco's Clean Power is considered that? there is a Costco with that a little further away from me) would affect anything in my car. Going to try 87 octane top tier first and work my way up.
I have Shell and Exxon stations around, any recommendations?
You have a Shell there, use that. Excellent gas.
You have a Exxon there, use that. Excellent gas.
lol @ both recommendations. Going for Shell first then over to Exxon. FWIW, I believe I last used Exxon and didn't notice mileage improvement.
This car has gotten worse MPG the more replacement parts I've gotten at, it makes me feel like there is some underlying issue. I hear a strange noise when I apply the throttle only, usually between 40-60 MPH, it 'almost' sounds like brakes grabbing or a wheel bearing or idler pulley starting to go, with more throttle does that mean difference in strain on the drive belt system???
Previously, I blamed the clutch that was worn out. Since the new clutch, it hasn't improved. I replaced the 02 sensor, which allows this Civic to drive in 'eco' mode since it's a lean burn app, the mileage improved initially but has tailed off to the same as when first acquiring the vehicle. To be fair, most 'trips' have been local roads and to work is only 3.5 miles 1 way. So, I'm not sure. I'll try top-tier gas to see if anything changes in MPG or performance feel.
This car has gotten worse MPG the more replacement parts I've gotten at, it makes me feel like there is some underlying issue. I hear a strange noise when I apply the throttle only, usually between 40-60 MPH, it 'almost' sounds like brakes grabbing or a wheel bearing or idler pulley starting to go, with more throttle does that mean difference in strain on the drive belt system???
Previously, I blamed the clutch that was worn out. Since the new clutch, it hasn't improved. I replaced the 02 sensor, which allows this Civic to drive in 'eco' mode since it's a lean burn app, the mileage improved initially but has tailed off to the same as when first acquiring the vehicle. To be fair, most 'trips' have been local roads and to work is only 3.5 miles 1 way. So, I'm not sure. I'll try top-tier gas to see if anything changes in MPG or performance feel.
Short trip is gas mileage killer. Your engine is running rich the first 3-5 miles, and your oil temp is barely at about 100-120F when you arrive at work, thick oil is gas mileage killer.
That's probably my main issue. I did a highway trip before clutch job for 2 hours, mileage was barely 40 MPG...that at like 70 MPH though. I wanna try the same one. The VX's sweet spot is about 55 MPH. New tires too, here's to hoping improvements!
Short trips and not using the car enough can cause buildups...
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