Battle of silicone greases for caliper slide pins

I dont think dielectric is a good choice because it's just to thick and sticky . At least the CRC grease I have is . In fact I had to cut the can in half because it no longer would come out
While silicone brake grease paste is dielectric (unless excessive conductive solids are added), normally when I see someone state dielectric grease, they mean the lower viscosity type used in electrical components.

The viscosity makes a difference. Sticky paste is good, stays where you put it, and the forces breaking have no problem with the little higher resistance of a higher viscosity paste. However, some are prone to have silicone oil separate out and that might be what happened to yours as it seems a little TOO viscous.
 
I’d like to share my experience and likely may ruffle feathers. All the aftermarket lubricants will fail unless you regularly service them by removing the old stuff, cleaning, and replenishing with new lubricant within 2 years in rust belt area. I switched over to the AGS sil-glyde product for the caliper pins and after 3 years and 36K of not inspecting, the pin froze solid in the caliper for the ‘03 Corolla. Probably took me close to 3 hours of heating, soaking, rattling, and impacting that I finally freed the pin as it was destroyed regardless. No visually damaged boots and the solid pin with the non-rubber sleeve was the one that seized up. Upon further inspecting, the shaft looks more like orange peel so you can argue the base pin material corroded and the lubricant failed. I believe if you looked up the flat rate master on you tube, he expressed dissatisfaction with the Permetex purple ”decomposing” and turning gummy as I had. So now, I converted over to Toyotas supposedly factory rubber pinkish grease p/n 08887-01206 and see if any improvement. I serviced the caliper pins on my ‘15 Toyota Sienna that has never been serviced nor driven in the snow/salt water after 7 years and 50k, the pins are beautiful and free with no issues with the factory lubricant! Strange the color was more amber/tan/brown so I give up.

What I will say is only clean the pins with solvent clean and wipe, and NOT use a dremel, wire brush, sand paper, abrasive pads, grind wheels, etc. etc. because this will scratch the factory anodize or chromate dip in the pins and basically you just bought the farm like I did. I’m betting that‘s the culprit in my example frustration. Either replace pins if too corroded or aggressively clean as mentioned and shorten service intervals to 1 year. Choose whatever brand AGS, Super Lube, Permetex, Mission Automotive, 3M, factory…but properly service every 2 years minimum.

I've had the opposite experience, that it's all in the lube and not the short interval.

It only takes one look at the bottom of my older vehicles to see that I'm in the rust belt. The first time I service brakes on a vehicle, I completely clean out the old, usually petroleum based grease, replacing it with silicone paste. I use the Raybestos but the Missions, 3M, et al are pretty similar. It has to be silicone paste, not lower viscosity dielectric grease, and not just something that has silicone in it.

It does not dry out like Sil Glyde and other organic (esp. petroleum) based lubes. It might have some silicone oil separate out on a vehicle sitting unused for years, but I've not encountered that. I've never had to reapply it in between brake jobs (new pads at least) and more often than not, don't have to reapply on every pad swap. This is within the context of having components in good condition to start with, not after a prior grease dried up, vehicle continued to be driven after that point, and you have bad pins and seals already. Unfortunately this latter condition is often when people notice problems, just had pad slap replacements done and no further servicing of the braking system.

Certainly a damaged boot should be replaced, but I haven't had the silicone pastes damage any. When the organic based lubes dry out, (or boot damage), that's when you start getting corrosion. If the pins don't corrode, there is no material that needs removed. If the pins did corrode, it depends on how badly, either replace them, or when it is minor, I have used abrasives to clean them off and they worked fine.

The key is still to use a lube that doesn't dry out so it provides corrosion protection to the bare steel, and to use enough of it. I've seen some poor advice here and there to only use a tiny amount because using more, the installer felt resistance pushing the pin back in. That is not a problem but rather a sign you didn't use too little, and that the seal is still somewhat working. This did not shorten the service interval at all, still lasted until the next brake pad swap, or a failed boot let gunk in. At the same time, this recent talk about ATE... sure, not all calipers are the same.
 
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My SOP for slide pins is Toyota rubber grease or Dow 111 and Permatex Purple or similar for metal-on-metal.

Now, I’m using the orange Permatex silicone ceramic on slide pins of one car - no issues yet.
Permatex orange silicone claims it is safe on rubber. (y)
 
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Yeah, yeah all you “by the book” guys like to flex your book knowledge, yet when a caliper goes bad I mostly read cheap reman recommendations as a replacement. There are tons of threads about failed calipers or pins. Somehow the book is quiet in these threads. Same goes for stuck spark plug threads.

I’m just going to stick what works for me and recommend it to others based on my experience. I treat manufacturer as a guide, not the Bible because ultimately they will do exactly zero to help me if their recommendations still end up in failure.

I'm definitely inclined to follow the book, but I've also had to learn that the book is not gospel, especially when it's old and wasn't even written with due care in the first place.

In this case though, follow the book!

ATE caliper bushings, like all rubber parts, are a consumable item, they are not meant to, and don't last forever. They work well, and last for years, but will eventually wear out and fail. Adding lubricant may help bushings that are at the end of their life last a little longer, but it can also swell them and attract dirt that gums things up.

If you want to avoid failure then you should replace the bushings before they fail.
 
In my experience I use the lubricants the brake manufactures use, and, in my case, I use this.



Bendix -Brake Parts Lubricant

Specially engineered and formulated ceramic brake parts lubricant has become an essential part of brake servicing, avoiding wear on several mechanisms which scientists categorise as adhesive, abrasive, fretting and erosion.


In a brake caliper, the brake pads move in their abutment slides not only when the brakes are applied but also when vibrations are transmitted from the road surface and drivetrain.

According to leading Brake manufacturer Bendix, some wear is closely associated with corrosion where oxygen from the air reacts with metal to form oxides. This results in oxidisation forming and this is much harder than metal. When this is present the sliding interfaces can be abrasive causing rapid acceleration of the mechanical wear rate.

This can be microscopic in the early stages creating roughness on the sliding surfaces, becoming worse over time with wear on the slides increasing until the pads can no longer move freely. Pads that jam in the caliper can lead to a raft of brake problems including shudder, drag, rapid pad wear, noise levels and overheating.



Bendix also advises that the noise behaviour of a brake system is a complex interaction between all parts of the braking system i.e. the pads, caliper, rotor and often the suspension components. When several components in the system go into resonant vibration together it can lead into brake noise and a strategy to avoid this is to isolate the pads from the caliper.

To overcome these many problems Bendix engineers have developed a specially formulated ceramic high performance synthetic lubricant called Ceramasil Brake Parts Lubricant which is available in a handy 255-gram tube with an extended nozzle, ideal for workshops working on a brake job.

Whilst any grease will do the job in the short term, this specially formulated lubricant is designed to last the life of the brake job. It is designed to work in a range of temperatures from the coldest winter’s morning to searing temperatures generated under hard working braking conditions and not melt. Tested and proven under the worst undercar conditions where it is exposed to continuous jets of water, clouds of dust and road grime Bendix Ceramasil remains as a constant lubricant.



Application of Bendix Ceramasil between the back plate of the pad and the piston and fingers of the caliper is an effective way to isolate the pads and decouple a system resonance.

Guide pins of a sliding caliper require lubrication to operate correctly, allowing the caliper to centre over the rotor and adjust to accommodate wear on the pad. Bendix recommends that with each brake service Ceramasil be applied to the caliper slide pins, the abutment slides of the caliper, between the back plate and the caliper fingers and the caliper bolt.
 
I'm definitely inclined to follow the book, but I've also had to learn that the book is not gospel, especially when it's old and wasn't even written with due care in the first place.

In this case though, follow the book!

ATE caliper bushings, like all rubber parts, are a consumable item, they are not meant to, and don't last forever. They work well, and last for years, but will eventually wear out and fail. Adding lubricant may help bushings that are at the end of their life last a little longer, but it can also swell them and attract dirt that gums things up.

If you want to avoid failure then you should replace the bushings before they fail.

So if adding a lubricant can extend the life of these bushings, why not do it right from new? A proper silicone lubricant, as being discussed in this thread, will not swell them.

And when these bushings go bad, they may cause overheating and take the caliper out with them.
I honestly don’t see any advantage of leaving them dry.

I had these for 15 years in my old car, 11 of which were in Canada with heavy salt use during winter. I cleaned and lubed the bushings and pins every year after each winter. After I moved to CA I stopped doing that because the climate is so mild. I don’t recall ever changing them.
 
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So if adding a lubricant can extend the life of these bushings, why not do it right from new? A proper silicone lubricant, as being discussed in this thread, will not swell them.

And when these bushings go bad, they may cause overheating and take the caliper out with them.
I honestly don’t see any advantage of leaving them dry.

I had these for 15 years in my old car, 11 of which were in Canada with heavy salt use during winter. I cleaned and lubed the bushings and pins every year after each winter. After I moved to CA I stopped doing that because the climate is so mild. I don’t recall ever changing them.

While silicone lubricants are considered "rubber safe" that unfortunately does not mean that they are non-reactive to rubber.

A chemical can cause up to a 10% volume change in an elastomer and still be broadly considered "safe", JIS K 2228, the Japanese standard for "rubber grease" allows up to a -15 to 0 change in hardness and 0 to 16% change in volume for EPDM.

You would need to use something like a PFPE (Krytox) to ensure that you're not changing the properties of the bushings more than the tolerances allow.

I've personally encountered far too many no lubrication required parts that have been lubricated, all it does is just attract dirt and debris and cause them to gum up even more. Typically a good cleaning will restore them to a satisfactory operating condition, and that's all they really needed in the first place.

As you said, in good climates ATE caliper pins and bushings do not need much attention, they can and should be left alone for the most part. While in poor climates they do require regular inspection and cleaning, lubrication is still not necessary for them to provide acceptable performance.
 
I've always used wheel bearing grease and never had a seized caliper. I live in the flats and use the engine braking in the mountains though, so I've never had it melt or burn off.
 
@dumkid
The way of driving certainly affects brake temperature. If you drive fast on the mountains, when driving downhill, even when using engine braking the brakes will certainly overheat.
 
OK for use on pins and in the brake pad grooves.
View attachment 70234

Pretty sure that's what I purchased from NAPA. Is the grease white?

I had some less viscous lube (color of engine oil) pour out before the white grease came out ... But no issues with the calipers since 4 or 5 years ago. It did the same this year and sometimes a mixture of white grease and oil came out.
wondering if it's getting old or gone bad or if its normal? I assumed since it worked last time, it is still good but a little bit of separation is happening!

Have you had any issues like this?
 
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Pretty sure that's what I purchased from NAPA. Is the grease white?

I had some less viscous lube (color of engine oil) pour out before the white grease came out ... But no issues with the calipers since 4 or 5 years ago. It did the same this year and sometimes a mixture of white grease and oil came out.
wondering if it's getting old or gone bad or if its normal? I assumed since it worked last time, it is still good but a little bit of separation is happening!

Have you had any issues like this?
The only time I've liquefied brake grease (for the "ears" of the pads, and behind the shim) was when I used standard brake grease with high performance carbon/kevlar pads. The pads get much hotter than stock and that heat turned the brake grease into a consistency like you mentioned. It also smelled like a BBQ! lol! really it did!

Since then I've used Permatex's ceramic solids grease, never going to liquify something that can go to 3000F!

But for caliper sliding pin lube, the stock Toyota pink rubber grease never liquified.. Just dries up within a year.. no problem just service the brakes every year..
 
Pretty sure that's what I purchased from NAPA. Is the grease white?

I had some less viscous lube (color of engine oil) pour out before the white grease came out ... But no issues with the calipers since 4 or 5 years ago. It did the same this year and sometimes a mixture of white grease and oil came out.
wondering if it's getting old or gone bad or if its normal? I assumed since it worked last time, it is still good but a little bit of separation is happening!

Have you had any issues like this?
It was clear IIRC. I am having no issues.
 
As many of you may have seen already, Im in the search for new greases for brake jobs here and there. I thought this might need its own post- since its specific.

The general consensus is to use a "dielectric" silicone grease ( lack of a better word, I know... ) on the pins. Many recommend the 3m 08946 paste or the Mission Auto dielectric grease/silicone paste. Looking at them online, they seem like the run of the mill one ingredient silicone paste.

Then I saw a few people mention the Raybestos DBL2T / ACDelco 10-4019 silicone greases ( which are rebranaded Fuchs 839 )... These make more sense to me than the ones posted above, since these contain PTFE in the mix... Thus giving some lubricity properties to the basic silicone grease...

Thoughts?

I love the 3m silicone.
Great stuff easy to use.
 
The only time I've liquefied brake grease (for the "ears" of the pads, and behind the shim) was when I used standard brake grease with high performance carbon/kevlar pads. The pads get much hotter than stock and that heat turned the brake grease into a consistency like you mentioned. It also smelled like a BBQ! lol! really it did!

Since then I've used Permatex's ceramic solids grease, never going to liquify something that can go to 3000F!

But for caliper sliding pin lube, the stock Toyota pink rubber grease never liquified.. Just dries up within a year.. no problem just service the brakes every year..

I should have been more clear. It was right out of the sealed tube. When I squeezed the tube, some less viscous grease or liquid (engine oil color) came out before the white grease.
 
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For our European members:
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Pasta-Ceramica-Textar-Ceratec-75ml-1000x1000_jpg_14.jpg

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Choose you favourite color. It's the exact same stuff inside.
I use to use it. No complaints.
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I should have been more clear. It was right out of the sealed tube. When I squeezed the tube, some less viscous grease or liquid (engine oil color) came out before the white grease.
ahh.. ok it was separated right out of the tube! I know I've had some things do that were not even old..

But I get it, nevermind what I was saying, didn't apply.. ;)
 
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