Put in some 20W50 and sell it.
You need a new engine, let someone else do it.
You need a new engine, let someone else do it.
Bad sludge - chunks of gel in last oil change
- Thread starter chillNed
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Originally Posted By: chillNed
During the move (truck loaded and pulling 4x8' trailer, so getting a decent workout) oil pressure dropped from a healthy 30-40 psi to 18 psi at 2200 RPM freeway speeds.
At first I thought it might be OK, but oil pressure drops to 0 psi at idle - no lifter clatter so oil is getting to the topside, but no oil psi is creepy.
Agreed BUT if it actually had no oil pressure, the lifters would collapse and it'd clatter badly... My guess it still has at least a small amount of pressure and possibly the gauge sending unit has failed(common in sludged engines)... Also as stated the pickup screen may well be blocked and or the oil filter may be clogged with sludge...
Still sounds as if this engine is possibly on it's deathbed and is headed south and I mean a lot farther than FL...
The 20W-50 & a new home isn't a bad suggestion...
During the move (truck loaded and pulling 4x8' trailer, so getting a decent workout) oil pressure dropped from a healthy 30-40 psi to 18 psi at 2200 RPM freeway speeds.
At first I thought it might be OK, but oil pressure drops to 0 psi at idle - no lifter clatter so oil is getting to the topside, but no oil psi is creepy.
Agreed BUT if it actually had no oil pressure, the lifters would collapse and it'd clatter badly... My guess it still has at least a small amount of pressure and possibly the gauge sending unit has failed(common in sludged engines)... Also as stated the pickup screen may well be blocked and or the oil filter may be clogged with sludge...
Still sounds as if this engine is possibly on it's deathbed and is headed south and I mean a lot farther than FL...
The 20W-50 & a new home isn't a bad suggestion...
Here are a few comments from me. I have several 4.3 engines and have worked on tons of them.
1) Change your lower intake manifold gaskets. When mine went bad, i did not see any evidence of coolant on the dipstick. I just noticed one of my lifters sticking every so often. This is a very common issue.
2) If oil pressure hit zero and the engine ran fine with no clacking noises, check your sending unit. They can be flaky. buy your self a mechanical gauge for 20 bucks and you will know the answer. They are easy to install and will give you either piece of mind or let you know you have a major issue. If OP is actually 0 psi then drop the pan and check the oil pick up screen.
3) 0w20 did not cause your issue. Although maybe not the best choice, they will run fine on 20 weight oils for a long time. It is possible that you went directly to a synthetic oil after long abuse and it loosened up a lot of stuff that is gathering up on the oil pickup screen. I really believe in long term cleaning.
For the record i have run my 01 4.3 on PP 5w20 for a long time will no ill effects. As others said if your engine lives, just use some good 5 or 10w30 and dont over think it. They are pretty easy on oil and dont require anything special. Good luck man.
1) Change your lower intake manifold gaskets. When mine went bad, i did not see any evidence of coolant on the dipstick. I just noticed one of my lifters sticking every so often. This is a very common issue.
2) If oil pressure hit zero and the engine ran fine with no clacking noises, check your sending unit. They can be flaky. buy your self a mechanical gauge for 20 bucks and you will know the answer. They are easy to install and will give you either piece of mind or let you know you have a major issue. If OP is actually 0 psi then drop the pan and check the oil pick up screen.
3) 0w20 did not cause your issue. Although maybe not the best choice, they will run fine on 20 weight oils for a long time. It is possible that you went directly to a synthetic oil after long abuse and it loosened up a lot of stuff that is gathering up on the oil pickup screen. I really believe in long term cleaning.
For the record i have run my 01 4.3 on PP 5w20 for a long time will no ill effects. As others said if your engine lives, just use some good 5 or 10w30 and dont over think it. They are pretty easy on oil and dont require anything special. Good luck man.
Kreen or MMO that bad boy...
Look. If 20w and a new home appeals, what loss is there to try a cleaner?
Snake oil? PBBBTH! I would look up the posts from Trav on here about holy engine resurrection and Kreen.
After that, drop the pan, sell it, torch it, roll it off a cliff...
Look. If 20w and a new home appeals, what loss is there to try a cleaner?
Snake oil? PBBBTH! I would look up the posts from Trav on here about holy engine resurrection and Kreen.
After that, drop the pan, sell it, torch it, roll it off a cliff...
Thanks all!
Let me clarify a couple things: *I* put the 0W-20 in the truck after the *new* lifters started clattering on full syn 5w30 (GM recommended for truck). The old lifters clattered on whatever was in the truck from the used car dealer, which is why I took it in.
When the new lifters went in, the intake gaskets were replaced, and there's been no lost (or gained) coolant since.
I figured a thinner oil would get past whatever was stopping the oil from getting to them when cold, and that full syn would start dissolving whatever buildup was in the galleries. It worked.
20 weight oil is only about 5% thinner than 30 weight (BITOG, oil univ 108). It ain't damaging the engine. If I were working the engine hard in hot weather it would - I'm not, and haven't. When the oil pressure dropped during the move, the operating temp did also(to the tune of 10-20 degrees).
I'm with TFB1 and jstutz: if there was no oil getting to the parts, the lifters would make a racket, so the sending unit is lying to me.
I'll check it, and post pics (if I can figure out how) when I get the valve covers and oil pan pulled. The truck's in a holding pattern while we move into our house... have to get unpacked so there's space in the garage to work on it.
I've been pretty deep in an engine or two, but never had to deal with sludge before (used a solvent tank to clean the parts). I don't want a solution in a bottle, but am looking for ways to 'hurry things along', so to speak.
Again, thanks for the advice.
Let me clarify a couple things: *I* put the 0W-20 in the truck after the *new* lifters started clattering on full syn 5w30 (GM recommended for truck). The old lifters clattered on whatever was in the truck from the used car dealer, which is why I took it in.
When the new lifters went in, the intake gaskets were replaced, and there's been no lost (or gained) coolant since.
I figured a thinner oil would get past whatever was stopping the oil from getting to them when cold, and that full syn would start dissolving whatever buildup was in the galleries. It worked.
20 weight oil is only about 5% thinner than 30 weight (BITOG, oil univ 108). It ain't damaging the engine. If I were working the engine hard in hot weather it would - I'm not, and haven't. When the oil pressure dropped during the move, the operating temp did also(to the tune of 10-20 degrees).
I'm with TFB1 and jstutz: if there was no oil getting to the parts, the lifters would make a racket, so the sending unit is lying to me.
I'll check it, and post pics (if I can figure out how) when I get the valve covers and oil pan pulled. The truck's in a holding pattern while we move into our house... have to get unpacked so there's space in the garage to work on it.
I've been pretty deep in an engine or two, but never had to deal with sludge before (used a solvent tank to clean the parts). I don't want a solution in a bottle, but am looking for ways to 'hurry things along', so to speak.
Again, thanks for the advice.
My parents have two Chevy's with 4.3s and use 30 multi-grade PCMO (as recommended). To me, you have more to lose than gain by running the 20 multi-grade. Seriously, protect your bearings FIRST, especially if you have any suspicion of coolant related problems.
I'm really tired right now
, but perhaps how long ago did the water pump leaking coolant happen?
A simple UOA may be helpful. Personally, in the summer we're having over here has me considering using Rotella T5 synthetic blend in my dad's truck that has a coolant leak and if I were to run a 20 multi-grade; it'd only be for in the winter time(definitely not if I had coolant in the oil).
Dex cool in the engine and bearing death ensues. Don't ask why my Pop won't just get a 2nd opinion or a UOA and verify if coolant is getting into the oil. Ugh!
I'm really tired right now
A simple UOA may be helpful. Personally, in the summer we're having over here has me considering using Rotella T5 synthetic blend in my dad's truck that has a coolant leak and if I were to run a 20 multi-grade; it'd only be for in the winter time(definitely not if I had coolant in the oil).
Dex cool in the engine and bearing death ensues. Don't ask why my Pop won't just get a 2nd opinion or a UOA and verify if coolant is getting into the oil. Ugh!
Sounds like you bought a truck that wasn't maintained by the former owner. I think your problem is more mechanical than oil related.
Originally Posted By: Ken2
Quote:
The reason you heard the "chattering" was because the rocker arms weren't reciving (sic) the proper lubrication with 0W-20. The lower viscosity oil wasn't thick enough to "climb" up your engine.
The reason your oil pressure droped (sic) was because 0W-20 doesn't have the same resistance as 5w30. Oil pumps don't create pressure. They just move volume.
This is just nuts. Oil doesn't climb. Oil pumps are positive displacement pumps with pressure control valves. They certainly do create pressure. About moving fluids...they only move from a region of higher pressure to a region of lower pressure. Pressure makes fluids move.
The first guy is right. Oil pumps just pump the oil...an engine's oil psi is really created by the resistance to oil flow within the main, rod and cam bearings. That's why engines with worn bearings have little to no oil psi-the oil has no resistance to flow. The oil pump does regulate psi via the pressure relief spring...when the psi exceeds the spring, it opens up and bleeds the excess psi off. Lastly, I personally would not run a 20wt oil in this type of engine with that many miles on it. A 30wt or even 40wt would be much more optimal.
Quote:
The reason you heard the "chattering" was because the rocker arms weren't reciving (sic) the proper lubrication with 0W-20. The lower viscosity oil wasn't thick enough to "climb" up your engine.
The reason your oil pressure droped (sic) was because 0W-20 doesn't have the same resistance as 5w30. Oil pumps don't create pressure. They just move volume.
This is just nuts. Oil doesn't climb. Oil pumps are positive displacement pumps with pressure control valves. They certainly do create pressure. About moving fluids...they only move from a region of higher pressure to a region of lower pressure. Pressure makes fluids move.
The first guy is right. Oil pumps just pump the oil...an engine's oil psi is really created by the resistance to oil flow within the main, rod and cam bearings. That's why engines with worn bearings have little to no oil psi-the oil has no resistance to flow. The oil pump does regulate psi via the pressure relief spring...when the psi exceeds the spring, it opens up and bleeds the excess psi off. Lastly, I personally would not run a 20wt oil in this type of engine with that many miles on it. A 30wt or even 40wt would be much more optimal.
+1 on the mild cleaning.I don't doubt the kroil is good stuff but it might be more aggresive than you need. I've always had good luck with MMO, but as others have said modern oils are pretty good so I wouldn't get real aggresive with it, maybe 10%. Intake gaskets are pretty easy if you have any mechanical apptitude and seeing in there will give you a better idea where you stand.
If you want more cleaning detergent just use a HDEO...like Shell Rotella ....run this for 4 or 5k and then replace with the regular oil you normally use.
High Detergent oil is the way to go.
Don't bother with these so called miracle cures and cleaners, they usually end up causing more problems than they ever solve.
High Detergent oil is the way to go.
Don't bother with these so called miracle cures and cleaners, they usually end up causing more problems than they ever solve.
pennzoil ultra is great at cleaning but expensive
Seafoam
Originally Posted By: Viggen
If you want more cleaning detergent just use a HDEO...like Shell Rotella ....run this for 4 or 5k and then replace with the regular oil you normally use.
High Detergent oil is the way to go.
Don't bother with these so called miracle cures and cleaners, they usually end up causing more problems than they ever solve.
+1, Rotella made a big difference in how my old Windsors ran.
If you want more cleaning detergent just use a HDEO...like Shell Rotella ....run this for 4 or 5k and then replace with the regular oil you normally use.
High Detergent oil is the way to go.
Don't bother with these so called miracle cures and cleaners, they usually end up causing more problems than they ever solve.
+1, Rotella made a big difference in how my old Windsors ran.
wow its like a tornado in here
to the op:
change your intake gaskets! if they are not leaking coolant now they will be shortly. it seems you have some serious sludge issues and im betting its because of coolant contamination. when they leak it is very little, even hard to notice by looking at the fluid level. but they all leak eventually.
unless its a 4wd you should be able to drop the pan no problem. but if it would help you can always pull the motor mount bolts and jack it up a few inches. you got to get in there and clean that screen at least!!
if it were me (i dont know about your mechanical ability) i would do the intake gaskets and pull the oil pan and valve covers at the same time. once its all disassembled you can wash out the sludge with diesel or kerosene, but you have to get it rinsed really good to make sure your pick up doesn't clog again. reassemble with new oil pump and gaskets, refill with proper antifreeze and oil, then start it up and let it run for about 30 mins watching the oil gauge. if oil pressure drops shut it down!!
installing a mechanical gauge is a good idea. change the oil after 30 mins. stick to short ocis (about 1500 miles) for a couple months and then go back to a 3k oci. if you run a good oil like PYB it will clean itself up with short oil changes.
good luck to you and keep us posted
to the op:
change your intake gaskets! if they are not leaking coolant now they will be shortly. it seems you have some serious sludge issues and im betting its because of coolant contamination. when they leak it is very little, even hard to notice by looking at the fluid level. but they all leak eventually.
unless its a 4wd you should be able to drop the pan no problem. but if it would help you can always pull the motor mount bolts and jack it up a few inches. you got to get in there and clean that screen at least!!
if it were me (i dont know about your mechanical ability) i would do the intake gaskets and pull the oil pan and valve covers at the same time. once its all disassembled you can wash out the sludge with diesel or kerosene, but you have to get it rinsed really good to make sure your pick up doesn't clog again. reassemble with new oil pump and gaskets, refill with proper antifreeze and oil, then start it up and let it run for about 30 mins watching the oil gauge. if oil pressure drops shut it down!!
installing a mechanical gauge is a good idea. change the oil after 30 mins. stick to short ocis (about 1500 miles) for a couple months and then go back to a 3k oci. if you run a good oil like PYB it will clean itself up with short oil changes.
good luck to you and keep us posted
Originally Posted By: Viggen
If you want more cleaning detergent just use a HDEO...like Shell Rotella ....run this for 4 or 5k and then replace with the regular oil you normally use.
High Detergent oil is the way to go.
Don't bother with these so called miracle cures and cleaners, they usually end up causing more problems than they ever solve.
really? i have used alot of MMO and Kreen in my cars and never had a problem. just got cleaner engines.
If you want more cleaning detergent just use a HDEO...like Shell Rotella ....run this for 4 or 5k and then replace with the regular oil you normally use.
High Detergent oil is the way to go.
Don't bother with these so called miracle cures and cleaners, they usually end up causing more problems than they ever solve.
really? i have used alot of MMO and Kreen in my cars and never had a problem. just got cleaner engines.
I'd recommend an HDEO, too. Rotella imo. Good cleaning power plus designed to hold lots of junk in suspension. I swapped my 86 5.0 from a life of conventional oil to Rotella T6 5W-40 about 3 years ago. Oil would get pitch black at 500 miles. I would change it very early, usually around 1k miles. It got darker over a longer period of time. Now it gets black by 1500 miles, and I change it around 2500 - 3000 miles. I have no proof except what I can see with my eyes in the oil color changing, and I think it must be doing a good job of cleaning the inside of the engine. Just speculation, though.
Originally Posted By: Viggen
If you want more cleaning detergent just use a HDEO...like Shell Rotella ....run this for 4 or 5k and then replace with the regular oil you normally use.
High Detergent oil is the way to go.
Don't bother with these so called miracle cures and cleaners, they usually end up causing more problems than they ever solve.
If the engine has a light/moderate sludge problem, say less than .050 thick, the miracle workers in a can likely will clean it fairly rapidly without issue... If it is so heavy that there are "chunks" then a lazy, slow clean is by far the safest way to go...
If you want more cleaning detergent just use a HDEO...like Shell Rotella ....run this for 4 or 5k and then replace with the regular oil you normally use.
High Detergent oil is the way to go.
Don't bother with these so called miracle cures and cleaners, they usually end up causing more problems than they ever solve.
If the engine has a light/moderate sludge problem, say less than .050 thick, the miracle workers in a can likely will clean it fairly rapidly without issue... If it is so heavy that there are "chunks" then a lazy, slow clean is by far the safest way to go...
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