Auto-RX

Terry · Aug 2, 2002

Auto-RX during cleaning will increase Oxidation,decrease Nitration, lower wear values because it is a very good dispersant. Stabilize TBN, lower soot reading in a diesel engine.

I "believe" Mobil1 supersyn is using a similar type ester to accomplish EP and FM capabilites. I think Exxon would do well to use Auto-RX instead of super syn at low levels for EP and FM instead of it's cleaning strength described above.

Ethan · Aug 29, 2002

Update: Nevermind, low blood sugar, low sleep and hot working environment=dumb question.

Regarding Auto Rx, Can you use a synthetic oil as a carrier or is a dino based oil the recommended way to go? If so, which one is recommended to assist in acting as a carrier?

Regards,

Ethan Fisher

[ August 29, 2002, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Ethan ]

Patman · Aug 29, 2002

Ethan, you can run any type of oil you wish during the Auto-rx treatment, but if you are trying
to fix a leak, then the oil change after the Auto-rx you should run conventional oil, to help the
seals harden back up to fix the leak better.

deluxekitty101 · Jan 6, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Terry:
Auto-RX during cleaning will increase Oxidation,decrease Nitration, lower wear values because it is a very good dispersant. Stabilize TBN, lower soot reading in a diesel engine.

I "believe" Mobil1 supersyn is using a similar type ester to accomplish EP and FM capabilites. I think Exxon would do well to use Auto-RX instead of super syn at low levels for EP and FM instead of it's cleaning strength described above.

I respectfully am in total disagreement with your post that Exxon/Mobil should use Auto-RX in place of their advanced Esters. I have also read about your ( encapsulating ) theories with the wax crystals that I am in total disagreement with as well. I do not beleive they encapusulate and carry away carbonacious particles. In oil langauge there is a term called Cloud Point- The Temperature at which a cloud or haze of wax crystals appear at the bottom of a sample of lubricating oil in a test jar ,when cooled under conditions described in ASTM test method D 2500 .

Do you beleive this is formation of wax crystals to be desirable for the record ? I have read a claim the crystals were added . It is my opinion they are formed when in use in the motor oil .
I am not disputing whether the product works or not but it is my opinion I do not beleive the encapsulation theory with the wax crystals .

[ January 06, 2003, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: deluxekitty101 ]

Terry · Jan 6, 2003

Deluxe,

I have never said wax or any other crystals are in Auto-RX or desirable in that or any formulation.

Just the opposite. Nor is cloud point a germain issue or relevant. Note that the bio based source of the esters do limit the pour point of the Auto-Rx product and that like all bio based products thickening at cooler temps is an issue, likewise the color and texture of the product are dark and thick unlike any petroleum based product you may have seen using ASTM D 2500. We did not find separation of the formula an issue at any temperature. Nor does the product affect the host oil or vice a versa.

Auto-RX is not a lubricating oil but an ester based cleaner that has shown EP/FM modifying characteristics.

I believe some uninformed observers are misinterpreting the room temp gelatinus structures of certain esters in Auto-RX as solids or wax which in my opinion is incorrect.

My encapsulating theories are based on disbursing using a polar micel at a micronic/ angstrom level not an object that would be visible without a microscope or other amplification tool.

The esters in Auto-RX have nothing to do with any kind of crystal that I am aware of. I have observed others, including your comments above, mention this but I have not seen it in my testing. Nor have I ever purported that assertion.

I repeat there are no solids that I have seen in Auto-Rx that contribute to its cleaning or lubrication capability. The tolerances between the piston rings and cylinder wall would be much too restrictive to allow a 40 or 50um particle of "wax" to be very effective or uniform enough to perform in that high temp/high pressure environment were Auto-RX functions flawlessly.

My comments about supersyn stand. Unless the esters in that product are enhanced and or increased they are in my opinion lacking in high performance applications. I believe they are not for cost reasons.

To substantiate that assertion, consider the recent last minute addition of Moly after the "unmolyed" versions showed poor EP performance.

I do agree that additional testing and possible reformulation of Auto-RX would be required to be used in place of Mr.Jackson's Supersyn esters.

Seems to me you have read or heard second hand opinions of these issues which I have also heard but have never agreed to based on first hand analysis interpretation.

Thanks for bringing this up as others may have held the same misconception about my point of view.

buster · Jan 7, 2003

I was told by Frank that I can add AutoRx to Amsoil, just let it run a bit longer to about 750 miles. Any experience with using a synthetic to run AutoRx? I know dino is for fixing a leak, but will it work as good using synthetic?

Terry, in what way does SS lack esters in high performance applications? Is it the quantity or quality of esters? I think Mobil, as good as they are, realize the average consumer doesn't need a better oil so what they put out is enough.

sprintman · Jan 7, 2003

I used with Delvac 1 in the Outback but I think running with dino will get a better result.

Pops · Jan 8, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Terry:
Deluxe,

I have never said wax or any other crystals are in Auto-RX or desirable in that or any formulation.

Just the opposite. Nor is cloud point a germain issue or relevant. Note that the bio based source of the esters do limit the pour point of the Auto-Rx product and that like all bio based products thickening at cooler temps is an issue, likewise the color and texture of the product are dark and thick unlike any petroleum based product you may have seen using ASTM D 2500. We did not find separation of the formula an issue at any temperature. Nor does the product affect the host oil or vice a versa.

Auto-RX is not a lubricating oil but an ester based cleaner that has shown EP/FM modifying characteristics.

I believe some uninformed observers are misinterpreting the room temp gelatinus structures of certain esters in Auto-RX as solids or wax which in my opinion is incorrect.

My encapsulating theories are based on disbursing using a polar micel at a micronic/ angstrom level not an object that would be visible without a microscope or other amplification tool.

The esters in Auto-RX have nothing to do with any kind of crystal that I am aware of. I have observed others, including your comments above, mention this but I have not seen it in my testing. Nor have I ever purported that assertion.

I repeat there are no solids that I have seen in Auto-Rx that contribute to its cleaning or lubrication capability. The tolerances between the piston rings and cylinder wall would be much too restrictive to allow a 40 or 50um particle of "wax" to be very effective or uniform enough to perform in that high temp/high pressure environment were Auto-RX functions flawlessly.

My comments about supersyn stand. Unless the esters in that product are enhanced and or increased they are in my opinion lacking in high performance applications. I believe they are not for cost reasons.

To substantiate that assertion, consider the recent last minute addition of Moly after the "unmolyed" versions showed poor EP performance.

I do agree that additional testing and possible reformulation of Auto-RX would be required to be used in place of Mr.Jackson's Supersyn esters.

Seems to me you have read or heard second hand opinions of these issues which I have also heard but have never agreed to based on first hand analysis interpretation.

Thanks for bringing this up as others may have held the same misconception about my point of view.

Here is something you posted in a Auto-Rx and use in a gear oil thread.

(Pops as far as filters needed, Auto-RX has a dispersant capability that will safely carry small particles in a protective lubricated encapsulation until drain )

So what are the function of these wax balls I have read about in some threads ? Are these what are supposed to encapsulate dirt ? I hope I am not asking for proprietory information . If so please disregard .

I also have just noticed a PM to me from the Inventor about these wax crystals or balls I will post if I can figure out how .

[ January 09, 2003, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: Pops ]

Terry · Jan 8, 2003

Pops,

I did say that, describing micel action but I NEVER attributed the encapsulation to some kind of solid or wax.

The comments about those have been mentioned by others not me.

The esters do the encapsulating not some mechanical solid.

We never saw crystalline structures or "wax balls" as some here have described.

Big difference.

Terry

[ January 09, 2003, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]

digitaldrifter91 · Feb 13, 2003

i am about to order a bottle of auto rx for my 91 honda accord with 165k on it. now how much of auto rx do i put...i know its 2oz per quart but can i go more? also since i knwo my engine is kinda dirty, will it clogg my oil screen? and how long should i run the engine before another oil change...i kno this may have been coverd in some other posts but i did a search and none answerd my questions. my car needs 3.75 qts of oil. i use 10w-30 mobil drive clean or penzoil with a bosch oil filter, when i do the auto rx im buying a cheap supertech filter, hopefully i can catch all the stuff in there...

i just dont feel like doing 2 applicaitons...even though im going to buy the 3 bottle special for 24.99 +5.00

Frank · Feb 13, 2003

Auto-Rx works on ratio's for engines it is 2 ounces per quart of oil (any type oil ) for engines over 100,000 miles you need to clean that engine two different times ( you don't put more than two ounces of Auto-Rx in each quart of oil to clean as you just waste additional product and get no additional benefit ) Auto-Rx turns accumulated "Crud" into liquid form so nothing can stop up oil screen , piston port, or wrist pin. Drive 500 miles if you use "Dino" Oil or 750 Miles if you use "Synthetic" than change out your oil and filter. Drive 750 miles to 1000 Miles with just new oil and clean filter, when you get those miles on add second bottle of Auto-Rx and repeat procedure. Your done.Remember Auto-Rx works while you drive, over miles safely and cleansing your engine every mile.

pinoy99 · Feb 13, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Frank:
Auto-Rx works on ratio's for engines it is 2 ounces per quart of oil (any type oil ) for engines over 100,000 miles you need to clean that engine two different times ( you don't put more than two ounces of Auto-Rx in each quart of oil to clean as you just waste additional product and get no additional benefit ) Auto-Rx turns accumulated "Crud" into liquid form so nothing can stop up oil screen , piston port, or wrist pin. Drive 500 miles if you use "Dino" Oil or 750 Miles if you use "Synthetic" than change out your oil and filter. Drive 750 miles to 1000 Miles with just new oil and clean filter, when you get those miles on add second bottle of Auto-Rx and repeat procedure. Your done.Remember Auto-Rx works while you drive, over miles safely and cleansing your engine every mile.

Why one need to drive 750-1k miles before adding the second bottle? Just curious since I'm currently on this step now. TIA

Frank · Feb 13, 2003

Major reason we want you to drive minus Auto-Rx, the is that clean oil will drive any remaining Auto-Rx liquified "CRUD" to filter during this part of application. Another reason is your engine is now getting complete oil lubrication to every part because the metal is clean. The second application insures metal surface ready to accept your oil.

pinoy99 · Feb 13, 2003

Would it be ideal then to change the filter before adding the second bottle?

Dr. T · Feb 13, 2003

Frank, any chance you will be making an "Auto-rx motor oil"? Why not make an oil with the product already in there constantly giving the "maintenance dose"??

MolaKule · Feb 14, 2003

Pinoy,

I would, just to make sure I capture that slimey sludge lifted by ARX.

MolaKule · Feb 14, 2003

showz123,

Did you go ahead and replace the lower bearings? Did the replacement of the bearings take the lower-end knock out of the engine?

shoz123 · Feb 14, 2003

This is my experience with Auto-RX in my 1993 Taurus SHO 3.0L.

The motor had +150K miles on it and was not taken care of by the previous owner. Originally I had planned on replacing this motor. The reason for replacement was a sever oil usage/leaking problem, 1 quart every 500 miles. This was going past the valve guide seals and dripping out the front main seal. I have a spare motor that I was going to rebuild but recently got a new job that would require a daily 125 mile commute. I had a knock in the original motor and decided to change the rod bearings as this is fairly easy and I had an extra set and there wasn't time to swap out the motor.

After pulling the pan I was appalled to see the black carbon built up on the underside of the motor. I had heard about Auto-RX here on this forum and decided to give it a try. Am I ever glad. After the first bottle and 500 miles of driving the oil consumption drop to less than a quart every 1000 miles. After another 2000 miles I added a second bottle and made a one day trip of 675 miles. Came home and changed the oil again. Now the oil consumption has dropped to a quart every 1200 miles and the top end of the motor is much quieter. The motor also has much more pep and throttle response out on the highway.

[ February 14, 2003, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: shoz123 ]

digitaldrifter91 · Feb 14, 2003

do i have to drive normally or can i hit an occasional red line??

Patman · Feb 14, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by digitaldrifter91:
do i have to drive normally or can i hit an occasional red line??

You can drive any way you wish with Auto-rx in there. I do believe it's best to do more long trips though, as I think Auto-rx does it's best cleaning when the oil is up to full temperature.

Auto-RX

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