Well made point . Try the mineral spirits to clean them up ( just kidding )......
Are there downsides to used upscale brands?
- Thread starter Elkins45
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All I know is my VW/Audi parts are generally up more than 100% since 2022 for Genuine OE. In 2022 I could buy all the chains tensioners and guides for about $700, the Tensioners, sprockets and Iwis made chains all made in Germany. Today the Chains are Morse made in Poland, the tensioners in Italy, the sprockets Slovakia and no COO on the guides the price is $1500 so they dropped the quality and doubled the price.
You can still find Iwis and other German made stuff but you need to search for it, some of the Euro parts houses even in the USA are selling OE VW/Audi parts that are FAW VW made in China for a premium price as well as INA, LuK, Pierburg parts from China, the parts are generally okay but way over priced. Buying parts today is like playing Russian roulette with 3 bullets in the gun.
You can still find Iwis and other German made stuff but you need to search for it, some of the Euro parts houses even in the USA are selling OE VW/Audi parts that are FAW VW made in China for a premium price as well as INA, LuK, Pierburg parts from China, the parts are generally okay but way over priced. Buying parts today is like playing Russian roulette with 3 bullets in the gun.
You know who the blame for those uptick in prices....
Precisely. The lower trims of the luxury brand equivalent tend to have similar upkeep costs as the mainstream brand, but once you move into the more bespoke trims, there can be significant differences.
For example, I have a TX500h -- which is the Lexus equivalent of a Grand Highlander Hybrid Max. The TX500h has rear wheel steering, 6-piston front calipers with 2-piece rotors and adaptive struts/shocks. Look at the cost of the rear wheel steering rack:
https://parts.lexus.com/p/Lexus__/LINK-ASSEMBLY---REAR-STEERING/144526025/4590048020.html
It's called software. The ECU is just a piece of hardware-- there are often a half-dozen (or more) software calibrations depending on the specific vehicle.
Headlight assemblies in general have become crazy expensive. That said, I don't think they are the best example - chances are if you actually need new assemblies you are probably going through your collision insurance coverage and have damage well beyond the headlight assembly.
I'd be much more interested in pricing on common parts used for maintenance. I know for Lexus, many models share exact same parts with their Toyota bretheren. For example, on prior RX350s (no clue about current gen), the brakes (rotors, pads, anti squeal shims, fitting kit) are the exact same parts as the brakes on the Highlander. You can purchase these parts from Toyota instead of Lexus - and almost always save significant money (especially if you time it with a Toyota 25% off parts sale, which run frequently throughout the year). In cases such as this, there is no price increase at all stepping up from the base brand to the luxury brand for the savvy owner DIY'er.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
BMW brakes aren't expensive as @edyvw can attest to, unless you get into the crazy stuff. That said my SRT brakes are more expensive than the brakes for my M5, and this is a Jeep, lol. But it has Brembo brakes and I opted for the High Performance brake upgrade on top of that, which gives me two-piece rotors, which are stupidly expensive.
In that vein, I know that a few people that have bought the Durango and opted for the Brembo's as a factory option did not appreciate the servicing cost of that upgrade when they made that decision and were not happy campers when they needed replacement and saw the price tag. This again ties into my price bracketing comment, you expect Porsche brakes to be expensive, not so with a Dodge SUV. I doubt the dealers explain this to the customers when they are offered the fancy brake option.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
I had those brakes on Sienna, the ones he refers to on RX350. The fact that those brakes are on a "premium" vehicle is laughable. That is the biggest junk I ever had on a vehicle (I thought ones on Prado and GX470 were the biggest).
The difference between brakes on my X5 35d I had before Sienna is like $50 for pads and the same for rotors (ATE on BMW is the same price as Toyota OE brakes). Difference is 1. You really don't have to think which one does the job better, 2. You won't change brakes on BMW bcs. you decided to brake hard, and now they are out of round.
A significant issue with Asian vehicles is that aftermarket options are often subpar. Simply, you don't have options like you have for European vehicles. You want brakes for BMW? Zimmerman, ATE, Textar, Jurid and Pagid are always available. For Lexus? Maybe, MAYBE Pagid (I got their pads for Sequoia and before for Sienna. No rotors available). You are getting OE quality as those are OE suppliers for a drastically lower price. The same goes for suspension parts, Lamforder, TRW (both ZF now), Bilstein, SACHS, etc.
Let's also take into consideration that on F Sport models, Toyota always goes Euro brakes and suspension, for a reason.
It's interesting to me that in my local market dealers are pricing Toyota RAV4's of similar year and mileage higher than Lexus RX350's. I know they aren't "cousins" but the RX always comes with a V6 and the RAV is almost always an I4. I was trying to understand this and higher secondary costs were the only ting that made sense to me.
That makes no sense..I don't know much about the Lexus RX350, but if you say they aren't like cousins, maybe it's the gas mileage ? I have an example for you : 13' Honda Pilot EXL AWD. We paid $ 48k for it. V-6. 7 passenger. 13' CRV Honda CRV EXL AWD. We paid $ 36k for it. 4 cylinder 4 passenger. KBB on the Pilot in 2024 with 110k / $ 6,000 KBB on the CRV with 110k / $ 13k .....Go figure. ( We lied about the mileage on the CRV, it's much more,,it was just for a comparison ) Honestly, I don't know how they come up with these prices. Thankfully, I do not need any cars right now. My head would just spin.
Not necessarily, you're paying for production of scale. How many 2013 CRV's were made vs. how many Porsche's of that headlight design? Also the CRV 2013 model doesn't have the features that Porsche light has. Now, when you consider that Porsche had to design the light, and either pay for the production of it or produce it themselves, they then have to amortize that cost vs. profit margin into the expected number of sales of said item, so of course it will cost the consumer more. That isn't so much "paying for a name" as it is just the reality of lower production run items. Then factor in that the Porsche light does all of this:You're paying for the name too. Just bought 2 replacement headlamps for my 13' CRV. Same material. Composite. $ 275.00 for the pair. Not looking forward to the job, ( take off the grill, the bumper, a million broken clips, re-aim headlights ,etc ). Did find a temp fix. Mineral spirits, a rag, a single edge razor blade, then cerakote wipe on ceramic coating. Soak part of the rag in mineral spirits, smear it all over the headlamp, let it sit a few seconds, get the razor in a good strong holder, and scratch that haze right off. Doable , not perfect. Hit it with with some prep all, and cerakote it. Got a few more months to kick that can down the road
Man...I dunno. A new one that you keep after that has no major issues? Sure. A used one with "deferred maintenance"...lolz! Some of those P cars have insane failure items.
I'll keep the CRV, LOL....My wallet is not big enough to buy, let alone maintain a Porsche... Oh well. Maybe hit Powerball one day
Often there are not "mere rebadged" vehicles.
More sound deadinig materials, more seat stuffing, better warranties.
In the case of Infiniti a great many of its models dont exists as Nissans in the US or in the case of the previous gen QX80 has significant features the Nissan Armada did not have.
The 17-2024 QX80 had an incredble hydraulic suspension like the international Patrol, on which it is based.
The Armada had a tradtional spring steel suspension.
A hydraulic suspenion is an incredible itme of added value.
Very few other vehicles have these, for example the Mercedes G class in the AMG only versions have an equivalent.
And unlike a QX80 those push 160k and despite double the cost are expected to be significantly less reliable than an Infiniti will be.
On top of that, what if its a used vehicle?
A used vehicles having been owned by someone with more money is definetly a plus, due to better chance of regular maintenance.
So if you can get an Infiniti for not much more than a equivalent NIssan, An Acura for not much more than an equivalent Honda a Lexus for not much more than a equivalent Toyota , I'd always go for the "higher" brand.
More sound deadinig materials, more seat stuffing, better warranties.
In the case of Infiniti a great many of its models dont exists as Nissans in the US or in the case of the previous gen QX80 has significant features the Nissan Armada did not have.
The 17-2024 QX80 had an incredble hydraulic suspension like the international Patrol, on which it is based.
The Armada had a tradtional spring steel suspension.
A hydraulic suspenion is an incredible itme of added value.
Very few other vehicles have these, for example the Mercedes G class in the AMG only versions have an equivalent.
And unlike a QX80 those push 160k and despite double the cost are expected to be significantly less reliable than an Infiniti will be.
On top of that, what if its a used vehicle?
A used vehicles having been owned by someone with more money is definetly a plus, due to better chance of regular maintenance.
So if you can get an Infiniti for not much more than a equivalent NIssan, An Acura for not much more than an equivalent Honda a Lexus for not much more than a equivalent Toyota , I'd always go for the "higher" brand.
None of them are "just rebadged". They all actually DO offer performance enhancements, as you note. That said, the hydraulic suspension is typical Chrysler...ummm...Nissan, lol! It's going to leak and have issues and make you dump the car.
The biggest disparity is the RDX vs the CRV. It's literally an entirely different vehicle, yet ignorant people insist it's "A luxury CRV...".
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One thing I would point out--Toyota parts can be significantly more than BMW, down to a Corolla (example, OE power window switch on a Corolla is 3X that of a BMW 7 series OE). For all we know a BMW X5 M rack is cheaper (well this is the front and it is). Something non Lexus owners should know in advance. The car may be cheap, but the ongoing maintenance can exceed a German car.
https://www.bmwpartswholesale.com/o...yMDI1JnQ9YmFzZSZlPTQtNGwtdjgtZWxlY3RyaWMtZ2Fz
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If it's any consolation, my buddy has a CR-V Touring, and his sister has a CR-V. Buddy has had a lot of nice cars in his life. His sister says, "The CR-V is the best car in the world. I wouldn't change a thing!" and we quote that and laugh. I mean it is a very practical car, lots of cargo. Probably almost the same as the top of the line Lexus LX as it is today. But it's not necessarily the best in the world lolI'll keep the CRV, LOL....My wallet is not big enough to buy, let alone maintain a Porsche... Oh well. Maybe hit Powerball one day
No Chrysler has offered a suspension like this.
Remember the QX80 is the international Patrol and gets raced at 100 mph up and down desert dunes again and again in the middle east.
This is the suspension that does it, comparable suspensions exists to my knowledge, only in the AMG versions of the G Class Mercedes benz.
I do own a '23 Armada but sometimes I wonder if it would not have been better to spend more and gotten the QX80.
Maybe when I am back in the US I'll pick up a used one.
Of course then, due to US domestic snails pace driving, I will no longer need that high speed capability the Q80 suspension offers, so its a catch 22.
Should, absolutely. But lots of people buy a $35k used Panamera or other highly depreciated luxury product only to find sticker shock when it comes to repairs and maintenance. One came in to me after Porsche stealership quoted the owner $14k to replace the entire air suspension.
I actually feel similar about my old cop car. By far a total pud compared to almost everything I've owned, but it's a Glock of a car.
100% this. You get a bunch of young money that things "OH MAN! I can buy a 7 year old C63 AMG for $30K!?!? WOOO!!!!!" and then things get wild and their minds are blown by the price of a mere brake job, lol!
