MolaKule
Staff member
Suggested concentration or not, I would NOT use it in an MT or an AT because it has the potential to upset the static and dynamic friction coefficients of the formulated fluid.
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Archoil 9100 added to Mercon V - Manual Trans??
- Thread starter sw99
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Thanks for your input Mola. I'll skip the additive and just worry about running the recommended Mercon V or a dedicated MTF...
Originally Posted By: sw99
I use Archoil 9100 in my engine oil (2006 PSD) and the results have been stellar.
I am getting ready to do a transmission fluid change in the truck that specs Mercon V fluid for the ZF6 Tranny.
Is there going to be any issues with adding 4 ounces of 9100 to the new fluid? Archiol recommends "Auto Trans-Use 3 oz of AR9100 to treat 1 gallon auto transmission fluid." IIRC, the ZF6 uses just under 6 quarts.
My fear is that I don't know enough about synchros in a manual transmission vs an actual auto transmission.
sw99 I have been following the Archoil treads since I first started using it a few years ago and read you did not use it in the ATF which is your call but I did and so far so good. I think we started out with a starter pack of AR6200 and AR9100. This morning I ordered our 5th gallon for AR9100 directly from Archoil on eBay for just under $200 a gallon with free shipping by FedEx.
Since Archoil is used in million dollar equipment engines and gear boxes this last week I went full bore with in the 2010 Subaru Forester 2.5X with 105,000 miles as a test of that brand that I had never driven until looking at new ones last month. I like how Subaru is evolving towards self driving vehicles using EyeSight technology. I hope to retire at 70 (66 currently) and was thinking Ford Escape until I learned about Subaru which is a rare bird in my area of West KY.
Of course I dumped AR9100 into the chankcase right off the bat since the oil was relative clean looking since the guy had changed it after the head gasket, water pump, timing belt and spark plug job. After about 500 miles we had the oil changed to be on the safe side and I added the AR9100 again.
The manual mode on the automatic transmission had a very hard/loud downshift even though the computer protects it. I started with SeaFoam in the transmission and at 160 miles of running we were going to do a total ATF change out using the bucket flush because the transmission was downshifting better but the ATF was very black. The son and I were short on time and the temps were back up in the low 90's that day so we just pulled the ATF drain plug and slapped 3.5 quarters of the Subaru HP spec ATF in it. This was a plus for the downshifting and Wednesday morning of this week I added 6 oz to each the front differential and transmission. On manual downshifts now the tach shows 2nd gear totally disengages before it down shifts to 1st gear. Upshifts were always smooth from my first test drive of this car.
It was the 1 oz of AR9100 that I put into the 2006 Ford 500 car power steering recently that helped me to use AR9100 for Archoil labeled uses instead of listening to web based fearmongers when it comes lube fluids. It was very hot days and the power steering was crying every day when it got hot and the the fluid level was not low. I was able to add about an ounce of AR9100. The next day the crying was gone and has not returned. If we own something with a crying hydraulic pump going forward I will test using AR9100 to stop the crying.
Fear mongering is common every where. I have really ran into it in a major way as I have been walking my premature death rate backwards for the past three years. I have my improved health and lab work numbers that support my case.
Below is a fact sheet that I am now following for Archoil AR9100 usage.
Archoil AR9100 spec sheet
I use Archoil 9100 in my engine oil (2006 PSD) and the results have been stellar.
I am getting ready to do a transmission fluid change in the truck that specs Mercon V fluid for the ZF6 Tranny.
Is there going to be any issues with adding 4 ounces of 9100 to the new fluid? Archiol recommends "Auto Trans-Use 3 oz of AR9100 to treat 1 gallon auto transmission fluid." IIRC, the ZF6 uses just under 6 quarts.
My fear is that I don't know enough about synchros in a manual transmission vs an actual auto transmission.
sw99 I have been following the Archoil treads since I first started using it a few years ago and read you did not use it in the ATF which is your call but I did and so far so good. I think we started out with a starter pack of AR6200 and AR9100. This morning I ordered our 5th gallon for AR9100 directly from Archoil on eBay for just under $200 a gallon with free shipping by FedEx.
Since Archoil is used in million dollar equipment engines and gear boxes this last week I went full bore with in the 2010 Subaru Forester 2.5X with 105,000 miles as a test of that brand that I had never driven until looking at new ones last month. I like how Subaru is evolving towards self driving vehicles using EyeSight technology. I hope to retire at 70 (66 currently) and was thinking Ford Escape until I learned about Subaru which is a rare bird in my area of West KY.
Of course I dumped AR9100 into the chankcase right off the bat since the oil was relative clean looking since the guy had changed it after the head gasket, water pump, timing belt and spark plug job. After about 500 miles we had the oil changed to be on the safe side and I added the AR9100 again.
The manual mode on the automatic transmission had a very hard/loud downshift even though the computer protects it. I started with SeaFoam in the transmission and at 160 miles of running we were going to do a total ATF change out using the bucket flush because the transmission was downshifting better but the ATF was very black. The son and I were short on time and the temps were back up in the low 90's that day so we just pulled the ATF drain plug and slapped 3.5 quarters of the Subaru HP spec ATF in it. This was a plus for the downshifting and Wednesday morning of this week I added 6 oz to each the front differential and transmission. On manual downshifts now the tach shows 2nd gear totally disengages before it down shifts to 1st gear. Upshifts were always smooth from my first test drive of this car.
It was the 1 oz of AR9100 that I put into the 2006 Ford 500 car power steering recently that helped me to use AR9100 for Archoil labeled uses instead of listening to web based fearmongers when it comes lube fluids. It was very hot days and the power steering was crying every day when it got hot and the the fluid level was not low. I was able to add about an ounce of AR9100. The next day the crying was gone and has not returned. If we own something with a crying hydraulic pump going forward I will test using AR9100 to stop the crying.
Fear mongering is common every where. I have really ran into it in a major way as I have been walking my premature death rate backwards for the past three years. I have my improved health and lab work numbers that support my case.
Below is a fact sheet that I am now following for Archoil AR9100 usage.
Archoil AR9100 spec sheet
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MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
sw99 said:...Fear mongering is common every where. I have really ran into it in a major way as I have been walking my premature death rate backwards for the past three years. I have my improved health and lab work numbers that support my case.
Below is a fact sheet that I am now following for Archoil AR9100 usage...
You really need to look at the definition of Fearmongers:
This can take the form of psychological manipulation that uses fear-based tactics (scare tactics) including exaggeration and usually repetition to influence the public in order to achieve a desired outcome.
So far I haven't seen any of this.
What I have seen are people trying to explain lubrication principles, technology and chemistries, and why any external chemistry may not be compatible with the internals of a specific piece of machinery.
Advertising FAQS and hype are not necessarily FACTS.
A dedicated MTL or ATF has a specific friction modifier chemistry to affect the dynamic friction coefficients in a transmission, and any external chemistry may be antagonistic to or compete with that formulated fluid.
One can choose to ignore the technical facts at his own peril.
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Mola , your posts in this thread are generally science based and it too generally forms my basis in evaluating/assessing a specific lubrication system requirements.
However, I wouldn't cast doubts on (valid) experiences in numerous applications with AR 9100 (a product which I'm fully ignorant of) as expressed by GaleHawkins, as to its potential efficacy in a lubricating system.
Loosely defined, I do concur with GaleHawkins position on "Fear mongering is common every where" in so far as lubricant oil-related issues are concerned .........
especially where science-based statements from a typical OEM/Oil company literatures are quoted/applied by user(s) kind of "out-of-context" .....
'subconsciously' instilling elements of 'fear' and unknowns along the way ......
that often times differ from (anecdotal) real life experiences/evidences.
Anyway, to each his own.
However, I wouldn't cast doubts on (valid) experiences in numerous applications with AR 9100 (a product which I'm fully ignorant of) as expressed by GaleHawkins, as to its potential efficacy in a lubricating system.
Loosely defined, I do concur with GaleHawkins position on "Fear mongering is common every where" in so far as lubricant oil-related issues are concerned .........
especially where science-based statements from a typical OEM/Oil company literatures are quoted/applied by user(s) kind of "out-of-context" .....
'subconsciously' instilling elements of 'fear' and unknowns along the way ......
that often times differ from (anecdotal) real life experiences/evidences.
Anyway, to each his own.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: zeng
Mola , your posts in this thread are generally science based and it too generally forms my basis in evaluating/assessing a specific lubrication system requirements.
However, I wouldn't cast doubts on (valid) experiences in numerous applications with AR 9100 (a product which I'm fully ignorant of) as expressed by GaleHawkins, as to its potential efficacy in a lubricating system.
Loosely defined, I do concur with GaleHawkins position on "Fear mongering is common every where" in so far as lubricant oil-related issues are concerned .........
especially where science-based statements from a typical OEM/Oil company literatures are quoted/applied by user(s) kind of "out-of-context" .....
'subconsciously' instilling elements of 'fear' and unknowns along the way ......
that often times differ from (anecdotal) real life experiences/evidences.
Anyway, to each his own.
Thanks Zeng and I appreciate your thoughts.
I take issue when people shout Fear Mongering when science-based facts and data are presented which contradict advertising hype or their previously held beliefs.
I am an educator and formulator, thats all, but the educator comes out when I see grossly exaggerated advertising claims and hype which I know have no basis in the scientific fields of which I am familiar.
Now specific additives have their place in curing specific problems. One aftermmarket additive (of which I have written about and have no financial association) cured a VVT valve problem in my former 2003 PathFinder when I was on a trip.
But there is simply so much junk out there there that has no place being added to a fully formulated motor oil. Most oils already have the exact additive component that is being touted as a miracle additive that will cure your soriasis.
The OTC additive companies ply on the uneducated and unsuspecting public with the following thought: "The Oil formulators left this or that out out or didn't know what they were talking about and you need this or more of this."
Mola , your posts in this thread are generally science based and it too generally forms my basis in evaluating/assessing a specific lubrication system requirements.
However, I wouldn't cast doubts on (valid) experiences in numerous applications with AR 9100 (a product which I'm fully ignorant of) as expressed by GaleHawkins, as to its potential efficacy in a lubricating system.
Loosely defined, I do concur with GaleHawkins position on "Fear mongering is common every where" in so far as lubricant oil-related issues are concerned .........
especially where science-based statements from a typical OEM/Oil company literatures are quoted/applied by user(s) kind of "out-of-context" .....
'subconsciously' instilling elements of 'fear' and unknowns along the way ......
that often times differ from (anecdotal) real life experiences/evidences.
Anyway, to each his own.
Thanks Zeng and I appreciate your thoughts.
I take issue when people shout Fear Mongering when science-based facts and data are presented which contradict advertising hype or their previously held beliefs.
I am an educator and formulator, thats all, but the educator comes out when I see grossly exaggerated advertising claims and hype which I know have no basis in the scientific fields of which I am familiar.
Now specific additives have their place in curing specific problems. One aftermmarket additive (of which I have written about and have no financial association) cured a VVT valve problem in my former 2003 PathFinder when I was on a trip.
But there is simply so much junk out there there that has no place being added to a fully formulated motor oil. Most oils already have the exact additive component that is being touted as a miracle additive that will cure your soriasis.
The OTC additive companies ply on the uneducated and unsuspecting public with the following thought: "The Oil formulators left this or that out out or didn't know what they were talking about and you need this or more of this."
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MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
But there is simply so much junk out there there that has no place being added to a fully formulated motor oil. Most oils already have the exact additive component that is being touted as a miracle additive that will cure your soriasis.
The OTC additive companies ply on the uneducated and unsuspecting public with the following thought: "The Oil formulators left this or that out out or didn't know what they were talking about and you need this or more of this."
As an example all one has to do is view this Forum:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/forums/5/1/OTC_and_Third_Party_Oil_Additi
But there is simply so much junk out there there that has no place being added to a fully formulated motor oil. Most oils already have the exact additive component that is being touted as a miracle additive that will cure your soriasis.
The OTC additive companies ply on the uneducated and unsuspecting public with the following thought: "The Oil formulators left this or that out out or didn't know what they were talking about and you need this or more of this."
As an example all one has to do is view this Forum:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/forums/5/1/OTC_and_Third_Party_Oil_Additi
I'd agree about not adding the Archoil as there's no way to know how "your" vehicle will respond to the change in friction modifiers. I'd stick with a quality Mercon V. The M1 ATF, Amsoil ATF's, and Redline D4 ATF are all quality synthetics with a decent additive package. Seems to me that synchronizers are the weak link in many manual transmissions. If they don't last, you're into a rebuild of sorts at considerable expense. Depending on the types of bearings in your trans, the ATF might lubricate and cool them better. While the gears themselves would likely benefit from a MTL, they're usually stout enough to last well beyond clutch and synchronizer life.
Do some searching on line about recommended or not recommended fluids for a ZF6. What you will likely find is that the use of ATF's and MTL's is all over the map, and with mostly good results with either type of fluid. I prefer not to be in the 10% that don't have good results with an MTL and it leads to decreased synchro life. Just because one mechanic, racer, or trans shop likes to use X, doesn't mean it will work 100% fine for you. Too many case studies where immediately upon changing trans fluid from stock conventional ATF to other MTL's or synthetic ATF's led to poorer shifting in their manual transmissions. Most any fluid will work fine for 10K, 20K, etc miles. The trans shifting might even feel "better" early on. Not much data on how they worked for 100K+ miles.
Knowing what your synchronizers are made of is helpful in understanding what fluid was originally specced (brass, carbon, composite, etc). Some synchro friction rings use very similar materials to the friction material used in automatic transmission. I've yet to hear of anyone running a Tremec T5/T45/T56 with the recommended ATF that led to a reduced life of the transmission. It's probably the same with a ZF6.
Do some searching on line about recommended or not recommended fluids for a ZF6. What you will likely find is that the use of ATF's and MTL's is all over the map, and with mostly good results with either type of fluid. I prefer not to be in the 10% that don't have good results with an MTL and it leads to decreased synchro life. Just because one mechanic, racer, or trans shop likes to use X, doesn't mean it will work 100% fine for you. Too many case studies where immediately upon changing trans fluid from stock conventional ATF to other MTL's or synthetic ATF's led to poorer shifting in their manual transmissions. Most any fluid will work fine for 10K, 20K, etc miles. The trans shifting might even feel "better" early on. Not much data on how they worked for 100K+ miles.
Knowing what your synchronizers are made of is helpful in understanding what fluid was originally specced (brass, carbon, composite, etc). Some synchro friction rings use very similar materials to the friction material used in automatic transmission. I've yet to hear of anyone running a Tremec T5/T45/T56 with the recommended ATF that led to a reduced life of the transmission. It's probably the same with a ZF6.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
sw99 said:...Fear mongering is common every where. I have really ran into it in a major way as I have been walking my premature death rate backwards for the past three years. I have my improved health and lab work numbers that support my case.
Below is a fact sheet that I am now following for Archoil AR9100 usage...
You really need to look at the definition of Fearmongers:
This can take the form of psychological manipulation that uses fear-based tactics (scare tactics) including exaggeration and usually repetition to influence the public in order to achieve a desired outcome.
So far I haven't seen any of this.
What I have seen are people trying to explain lubrication principles, technology and chemistries, and why any external chemistry may not be compatible with the internals of a specific piece of machinery.
Advertising FAQS and hype are not necessarily FACTS.
A dedicated MTL or ATF has a specific friction modifier chemistry to affect the dynamic friction coefficients in a transmission, and any external chemistry may be antagonistic to or compete with that formulated fluid.
One can choose to ignore the technical facts at his own peril.
Molakule why did you see fit to quote me in this post? Were you not in the similar niche once upon a time as Archoil is still today?
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
...Were you not in the similar niche once upon a time as Archoil is still today?
No.
...Were you not in the similar niche once upon a time as Archoil is still today?
No.
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