AR-10

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Im interested in the Sig 716, same concept. Hope to do some test shooting on one before too long...


I took a look at the Sig website - geez, for that kind of $$$, you could have the best there is - an FN SCAR.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
I took a look at the Sig website - geez, for that kind of $$$, you could have the best there is - an FN SCAR.


If you like plastic rifles.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: Astro14
To be very honest, that rifle was bought in a hurry. It was very early 2013 and I bought what my local gun store had in stock. I just knew I wanted a .308 AR-style carbine. Everything was flying off the shelves, so I bought what I could find...


I see...

I'm looking at the Smith & Wesson M&P 10 too. I've heard good things about it also.


I also way, way overpaid for the rifle - everything was marked way up at that time...that said, I am very, very happy with it...

The M&P 10 is very similar. And gets good reviews.

The SIG 716, or the other piston rifles, are a cut above. More expensive, but cleaner, and better able to handle a suppressor, if you choose to add one in the future.

What's your budget?

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
I took a look at the Sig website - geez, for that kind of $$$, you could have the best there is - an FN SCAR.


If you like plastic rifles.


Plastic pistols seem to have done pretty well, right?

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: Astro14
To be very honest, that rifle was bought in a hurry. It was very early 2013 and I bought what my local gun store had in stock. I just knew I wanted a .308 AR-style carbine. Everything was flying off the shelves, so I bought what I could find...


I see...

I'm looking at the Smith & Wesson M&P 10 too. I've heard good things about it also.


I also way, way overpaid for the rifle - everything was marked way up at that time...that said, I am very, very happy with it...

The M&P 10 is very similar. And gets good reviews.

The SIG 716, or the other piston rifles, are a cut above. More expensive, but cleaner, and better able to handle a suppressor, if you choose to add one in the future.

What's your budget?


Thinking around $1500-1700 tops

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Thinking around $1500-1700 tops


You should be able to pick up a nice AR platform rifle in .308 for that price.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Plastic pistols seem to have done pretty well, right?


True. But for some reason it seems more tolerant in a handgun. Perhaps because there isn't so much of it. I handled a Polymer framed AR-15 once. It seemed like a cheaply built toy.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Im interested in the Sig 716, same concept. Hope to do some test shooting on one before too long...


I took a look at the Sig website - geez, for that kind of $$$, you could have the best there is - an FN SCAR.


I may have a deal...

 

[bsmithwins]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Been thinking a little more about a fairly lightweight .308 rifle. Why not an AR-10? They seem to have a reputation for being fairly accurate, lightweight, reliable, and you can get one without selling a kidney.

I know some of y'all own AR-10s. What do you have? What do you really like about it? Anything about it that you've discovered that you don't like?

I usually tend not to buy top-of-the-line, but more like 7/10, to avoid diminishing returns for my $. So, I like quality, but I like to get a lot for my money.

I'm thinking 16" barrel and left-side charging handle. I'm not interested in suppressing. And, as I said earlier, weight is a priority. Like to have something that's 7-8 lbs. in stock configuration.

What's better - direct gas impingement or piston? Pros/cons of each?

Also, what optics do you guys like? I have no experience with optics.


Technically not an AR10: https://iwi.us/product/gar1651/

Weight: 8.7lbs. That is a milled receiver AK with the optics rail, railed handguard (w/covers) and night sights included.
Reliability: It's an AK with great ergonomics.
Price: $1535 here - http://www.gunbroker.com/item/692111449 (Just an example, don't know the seller, offer void where prohibited, etc.)
Barrel: 16"
Charging: Left handed charging handle with slot sealed by a wobble plate.
Operation: Long stroke gas piston.
Plus it uses available and cheap SR25 mags, the stock can be folded for compact storage, and you get a rifle that was developed by a real factory, by real engineers, with a factory warranty.

Yes, I'm a bit of a fan.

BSW

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: bsmithwins
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Been thinking a little more about a fairly lightweight .308 rifle. Why not an AR-10? They seem to have a reputation for being fairly accurate, lightweight, reliable, and you can get one without selling a kidney.

I know some of y'all own AR-10s. What do you have? What do you really like about it? Anything about it that you've discovered that you don't like?

I usually tend not to buy top-of-the-line, but more like 7/10, to avoid diminishing returns for my $. So, I like quality, but I like to get a lot for my money.

I'm thinking 16" barrel and left-side charging handle. I'm not interested in suppressing. And, as I said earlier, weight is a priority. Like to have something that's 7-8 lbs. in stock configuration.

What's better - direct gas impingement or piston? Pros/cons of each?

Also, what optics do you guys like? I have no experience with optics.


Technically not an AR10: https://iwi.us/product/gar1651/

Weight: 8.7lbs. That is a milled receiver AK with the optics rail, railed handguard (w/covers) and night sights included.
Reliability: It's an AK with great ergonomics.
Price: $1535 here - http://www.gunbroker.com/item/692111449 (Just an example, don't know the seller, offer void where prohibited, etc.)
Barrel: 16"
Charging: Left handed charging handle with slot sealed by a wobble plate.
Operation: Long stroke gas piston.
Plus it uses available and cheap SR25 mags, the stock can be folded for compact storage, and you get a rifle that was developed by a real factory, by real engineers, with a factory warranty.

Yes, I'm a bit of a fan.

BSW


Now that is very interesting. Definitely something different!

Need to watch a few reviews on that rifle.

I've thought seriously about a Tavor a couple of years ago. Ended up getting a KSG to satisfy my bullpup want. Still would like to have a Tavor!

Wonder how the trigger is? Accuracy?

So, the fact that it's based on an AK, basically - does that make it inherently more reliable than an AR?

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Plastic pistols seem to have done pretty well, right?


True. But for some reason it seems more tolerant in a handgun. Perhaps because there isn't so much of it. I handled a Polymer framed AR-15 once. It seemed like a cheaply built toy.


To be fair, the HK 416 and 417 are considered the most durable rifles on the planet, surpassing the AR15 and AR10 in spades. Plastic or not, they ARE tough.

They have tested to have 3 times the life span of an AK47.

 

[bsmithwins]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Now that is very interesting. Definitely something different!

Need to watch a few reviews on that rifle.

I've thought seriously about a Tavor a couple of years ago. Ended up getting a KSG to satisfy my bullpup want. Still would like to have a Tavor!

Wonder how the trigger is? Accuracy?

So, the fact that it's based on an AK, basically - does that make it inherently more reliable than an AR?


As far as reliability goes, for general shooting ARs are perfectly reliable and will work when incredibly dirty, if they are kept lubricanted. Unfortunately, by piping gas into the bolt they tend to dry out the area that most needs lube.

If you're shooting under 300 rounds or so and relubricate about that often, they will run pretty much forever. Or at least until you break the bolt, which most AR15s will do at about 10-20k rounds.

The other potential practical reliability problem is that the AR has some small, easy to lose parts that are part of a standard fieldstrip.

The AK doesn't have those particular problems.

The trigger in my Galil is pretty good, and not just good for an AK. Two stages and it breaks cleanly, it's not a hinderance to shooting. I'm getting around 2MOA but I blew my knee out before I could do any real good accuracy work.

BSW

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
.....Plastic or not, they ARE tough. They have tested to have 3 times the life span of an AK47.


I'm not saying they are not tough. The Glock is one of the toughest, most ruggedly built pistols around. And it is made from plastic. All I am saying, is it seems plastic is more tolerable on a handgun, because there is so much less of it to look at. When you pick up a $2K+ rifle, and see nothing but molded plastic, it turns you off. Because the whole thing seems cheaply built, and should cost much less. Compare a SCAR to a Browning Citori. They are both around the same price. Which one represents the best value and craftsmanship? While militaries don't care about such things, most civilians do. Because they are spending their own money. Not the taxpayers.

 

[Astro14]

That Galil looks like a great rifle. One of the gun magazines wrote about it recently. They were quite enthusiastic about it. I like the fact that it takes the Magpul SR magazines. That makes the rifle easy to feed. It's certainly different than the rest of the market place.

Patriot Ordnance Factory makes a gas piston 7.62 rifle with a roller cam pin and some chamber modifications for easier extraction. Both upgrades make sense, I really like the piston idea, and the rifle looks really nice (again, the gun press wrote rave reviews) but it was pretty expensive. Might be out of your budget.

The AR-style DI rifle is inexpensive. That's the big advantage. The DPMS Gen II has several enhancements over mine, but still can be had for about $1,200, or slightly less, depending on model, barrel length, etc.

Now, in choosing barrel length, I went with a carbine length, in case I ever need a carbine in a serious caliber. With an SR-25 magazine (I've got several), you've got 25 rounds of 7.62x51. Unless you're torturing the rifle, it's going to be reliable, just a bit dirtier. If I were to bias the choice towards hunting, I would go with a longer barrel for better performance at range. Really depends on how you intend to use it.

In your budget range, the Galil is an interesting choice. Keep us posted on what you choose. I love my simple, accurate, versatile AP-4 carbine, but there are some really good options in your budget.

 

[billt460]

I could see paying $2K for a milled receiver, .308 Galil. But not for a plastic molded .223 SCAR.

 

[billt460]

The other nice thing about the .308 AR's I didn't mention, is they're not as ammunition sensitive as many of the Springfield Armory M1-A's are. You have to be careful because if you use too slow burning of a powder in a Springfield M1-A, you can bend the op rod. The DPMS, and other .308 AR's have gas impingement operating systems that are much less sensitive to changes in powder burn rates.

 

[bsmithwins]

Originally Posted By: billt460
I could see paying $2K for a milled receiver, .308 Galil. But not for a plastic molded .223 SCAR.


Good news then, I was seeing .308 Galil ACEs on gunbroker.com with a buy now price of under $1600.

BSW

 

[L_Sludger]

The AR-10 is awesome partly because it sounds similar to A-10, the biggest, baddest gun in the air

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: billt460
I could see paying $2K for a milled receiver, .308 Galil. But not for a plastic molded .223 SCAR.
Again with the Galil? Talk about a Veblen good!

 

[billt460]

A few other things I would mention with the .308 AR. If you stick with a DPMS / SR-25 type weapon, you'll have no trouble with magazines or parts. Bolt carrier groups, along with magazines, (Mag-Pul P-Mags), and charging handles are everywhere in the after market. I have the DPMS AR-10, and 2 Springfield Armory M1-A rifles. As well as 3 Ruger Mini 14's. And I prefer the AR over all of them.

As far as cleaning the M1-A. It is a PITA to take apart and clean compared to the AR. You have to be very careful not to get solvent or oil into the gas system. As it can get damaged by firing the weapon with any type of fluid in the system. And in some of the more expensive Super Match Models of the M1-A, they advise you not to remove the barreled action from the stock, unless it's actually necessary. This is because these rifles come glass bedded from the factory. And Springfield say's disturbing the action / stock bedding can have a negative effect on accuracy, by loosening things up too much. This makes proper cleaning an even bigger PITA. And all of the above also applies to the FNAR. Which is nothing more than a .308 Browning BAR with a plastic stock, and a box magazine attached to it. (Which are difficult to find, and ungodly expensive when you do).

Another thing with the M1-A, is you have to be careful with the type of ammo you shoot in it. It has the same action as a M1 Garand. And they don't like slow burning powders. The reason is because these type of loads will allow the action to cycle while it is under too much pressure. This can result in bent operating rods. You have to shoot loads that contain powders with mid range burn rates. There are companies like Hornady that make Garand and M1-A specific loads for these rifles. If you handload, you have to stay within these powder parameters, or it is possible to damage the rifles operating system. Many of the newer loading manuals list specific loads for the Springfield M1-A.

While there are some piston operated AR platform .308 rifles. Most of them are direct impingement gas operated. This allows a much broader spectrum of loads to be safely used. Without having to worry about the gun. In fact, I can't think of a single factory load that I would be concerned about shooting in a direct impingement .308 AR platform rifle.

There are so many nice .308 AR's currently available out there today, you can have one in most any type or configuration you want. From a short barreled carbine, to a 20" barreled long range target rifle, with high powered optics. And most anything in between.