Apple Com founder blames software for acceleration

[ksJoe]

article link

Wozniak is one of the founders of Apple Computer Company. He often speaks at computing related forums. But a couple days ago he went off topic and started talking about his Prius.

Quote:
"Toyota has this accelerator problem we've all heard about," Wozniak said. "Well, I have many models of Prius that got recalled, but I have a new model that didn't get recalled. This new model has an accelerator that goes wild but only under certain conditions of cruise control. And I can repeat it over and over and over again--safely."

"This is software. It's not a bad accelerator pedal. It's very scary, but luckily for me I can hit the brakes," he said.


The plot thickens...

 

[wavinwayne]

iCrash

 

[Quattro Pete]

Make sure you're wearing your iPad while your iCar develops a mind of its own and takes you for a wild ride.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
iCrash


+1 Lmao

 

[ThirdeYe]

If it actually is a software issue, can you imagine how bad it would be for Toyota to backpedal again? (no pun intended) I love Toyota's cars from the '90s and early 2000's (Supra, Celica, Lexus SC, Lexus IS, etc.) but wow, this whole situation is a real shame. I wouldn't buy one...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
If it actually is a software issue, can you imagine how bad it would be for Toyota to backpedal again? (no pun intended) I love Toyota's cars from the '90s and early 2000's (Supra, Celica, Lexus SC, Lexus IS, etc.) but wow, this whole situation is a real shame. I wouldn't buy one...


"Well, because our first two recalls didn't fix the actual PROBLEM.... We've now got a third recall covering everything in the last 10 years! Buy our cars, and experience the quality for yourself!"

 

[Pluto5]

Anyone remember Unsafe at Any Speed??

 

[mechanicx]

Yeah Ralph Nader when he was a young lawyer trying to make a buck and a name for himself. A guy who reportedly never owned a car living in NY and may have never even operate a car before. A horse is unsafe at any speed if you fall off of it. That's not to say that pre mid 60's cars and now current Toyotas didn't/don't have safety issues though. But this being 2010 I don't think Toyota was handling the issues well.

 

[Rickey]

Lawyers are unsafe at any speed as well.
Especially if they are aimed in your direction !!

 

[CROWNVIC4LIFE]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
"Well, because our first two recalls didn't fix the actual PROBLEM.... We've now got a third recall covering everything in the last 10 years! Buy our cars, and experience the quality for yourself!"

Ain't that the the truth!

My neighbor [who parks next to me] just came home with a brand new black Prius tonight... I hope that Prius does not go crazy while their pulling into their parking space next to me.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: Pluto5
Anyone remember Unsafe at Any Speed??

I actually read the whole book back in '74. Though Nader touched on a number of simple things that needed to be exposed and dealt with, toward the end of the book he went off on a tangent about complex issues into la-la land.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Yeah Ralph Nader when he was a young lawyer trying to make a buck and a name for himself. A guy who reportedly never owned a car living in NY and may have never even operate a car before. A horse is unsafe at any speed if you fall off of it. That's not to say that pre mid 60's cars and now current Toyotas didn't/don't have safety issues though. But this being 2010 I don't think Toyota was handling the issues well.


True. But Nader also brought to light things like the pointed fins on the backs of the Caddy's of the day. These fins could easily blind or kill a kid playing in the street near one of them that was parked. I think the all steel dash boards were another issue. He picked apart many faults with the dangers some cars had. It's been decades since I read the book, but he did have a few good points about cars of that era. He also went a little off the deep end too. Not many people liked him. LOL

 

[ksJoe]

Sounds like he tried multiple times through multiple ways to get this addressed. Once he mentioned it a public forum (only two days ago), several news outlets were pursuing it.

Woz explains in more detail.

Toyota To Borrow, Test Steve Wozniak's Prius For A Week


On slashdot, I saw a comment attributed to Woz that repeatedly bumping the cruise control accelerate button would make it go full throttle. I tried that yesterday in my IS350, but no luck.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: ksJoe
On slashdot, I saw a comment attributed to Woz that repeatedly bumping the cruise control accelerate button would make it go full throttle. I tried that yesterday in my IS350, but no luck.

I'm going to try it on all 3 of mine tonight.

 

[JustinH]

Woz has always been a bit of a loose cannon anyways. Last week he announced that he thought that the google nexus one was one of the most revolutionary products available, then he had to slip in "but I do have two iphones still!"..

He has no idea what toyota is doing in the programming of the prius.

He is just a very rich man, who can do or say whatever he wants, so sometimes he tries to draw attention to himself.

 

[ksJoe]

Originally Posted By: JustinH
He has no idea what toyota is doing in the programming of the prius.


He doesn't need to know 'what toyota is doing in the programming' to recognize what looks like a programming issue.

Here is his comment from last Nov. where he described how to make it happen:
Originally Posted By: SteveWoz
I can nudge my cruise control speed lever and my speed barely goes up, say from 80 to 81.I nudge at again and again, up to 83. Then I nudge it again and the car takes off, no speed limit. Nudging the cruise speed control lever down has no effect until I've done it about 10 times or more. By then my Prius is doing 97.


Elsewhere he said it accelerates 'wildly' when it does it. If it was a problem with the cruise control switch itself, it might stick on, and keep accelerating gradually. This sounds like a software bug. With exactly the right circumstances, the software fully opens the throttle.

For what its worth (or isn't) I'm a software engineer, and since seeing the first reports of this, I've been surprised to hear Toyota dismiss the possibility of a software bug. Because that's what its sounded like to me.

On the surface Woz's case appears unrelated to the other acceleration issues. But with software bugs I've seen many cases where when the bug is in low level stuff, very different scenarios can trigger it. So while its a long shot, I think it is remotely possible this is related to the other issues.

 

[wapacz]

Originally Posted By: JustinH
Woz has always been a bit of a loose cannon anyways. Last week he announced that he thought that the google nexus one was one of the most revolutionary products available, then he had to slip in "but I do have two iphones still!"..

He has no idea what toyota is doing in the programming of the prius.

He is just a very rich man, who can do or say whatever he wants, so sometimes he tries to draw attention to himself.


To be fair in the US the current version of the nexus only gets 3g speeds on tmobiles network. Which makes its 3g coverage very limited and if you are off 3g you are restricted to about twice dialup speed.

 

[PT1]

I tried my cruise control on my 2008 4Runner last night. SInce all the cruise controls on all toyotas are the same unit they should all have the same software. If you set it and then bump the lever up (accelerate) on the lever it wil accelarate about 1-2 mph. If you bump it 3 times in succession it will go about 6-8 mph and level off. If you bump it 20 times in rapid succession it will start to accelerate and if you are going up a slight grade the trans will downshift into the next lower gear and you will feel the force of the engine pulling and get some g-force pushng you into the seat. The cruise will catch itself and level off about 15 mph higher. I would estimate it hits about 1/4 throttle...no where near WOT. If you are going level or downhill there is virtually no effect other than about 3 bumps worth of acceleration and the cruise levels off at about 6 mph more. There is no "runaway" experience but you can play with it and it will accelerate...but will catch itself once the ECM gets the feedback from the speed sensors.

But, there is a delay period of a split second where you feel the computer driving the car. Kind of strange really. Someone try it on a GM & Ford & CHrysler please and see what happens. I will do the Rav4 and the Lexus ES350 this week and post back.

 

[brianl703]

Ford and GM vehicles are 1MPH increase or decrease per tap. I routinely tap the button 5-10 times in a row as the speed limit changes.

 

[mechanicx]

With cruise control if you want to resume to a much higher speed aren't you suppose to just hold the button until you reach the desired speed? You're not really suppose to tap it excessively.