Anyone running "synthetic" coated bullets?

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: billt460
What are the purpose of these? Does it have something to do with "lead contamination"?


"lead contamination" of what? I suspect since the interior is lead, contamination isn't the consideration...


Air in indoor ranges. There has been a lot of talk about airborne lead contamination inside older indoor ranges. That don't have the good, modern ventilation systems the newer ranges have. Like most that have come on line in the last several years. Many of which are capable of exchanging the air inside a large range every couple of minutes.

A lot of ranges will no longer allow non jacketed ammunition, (i.e. cast bullets), to be shot any longer. Some are even calling for only TMJ, (Total Metal Jacket), bullets to be used. Fearing that the exposed lead base of a FMJ bullet releases too much airborne lead contamination upon firing. I think most of this is typical overactive nonsense. But it hasn't changed the way they're reacting to it. Just look at California, along with all of it's non lead ammunition it now mandates for hunting in many of it's counties. Environmentalists are going off the deep end with this kind of stuff.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: AMC
Any solvent that can break down copper and brass will break down plastic much easier.


Not necessarily. Toss a plastic shotgun wad into a glass filled with an Ammonia based copper bore cleaner. Like Montana Extreme or Shooters Choice, and see what happens.... Nothing. I've tried it.

 

[Astro14]

Since my bore cleaner comes in plastic bottles, I would have to agree that dissolving plastic in the bore might require something besides regular bore cleaners designed to remove copper and lead...

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Since my bore cleaner comes in plastic bottles, I would have to agree that dissolving plastic in the bore might require something besides regular bore cleaners designed to remove copper and lead...


Out here when shooting Trap in the hot weather, it was very easy to get a shotgun barrel very hot after shooting a round of doubles with a fast paced squad. Plastic wad fouling became a big problem. With it covering the inside of a barrel from just ahead of the forcing cones, all the way to the choke area. Guys tried every solvent known to man in an attempt to remove it. None worked all that well.

The best method was to take the handle off a cleaning rod with a 12 gauge bronze brush on the end, (Stainless Steel brushes can scratch the bore), and chuck it up in a cordless drill. Then run it on high up and down the entire length of the barrel. It's best to leave the screw in chocks in place while doing this, so you don't compromise the fine threads in the muzzle of the barrel that accepts them. Within a minute or two, the barrel would come clean, without a trace of plastic left in it.

 

[Astro14]

Interesting...Everything that I know that cleans up plastic (acetone, methylene chloride) tend to be highly damaging to finishes, gloves, etc...so, opting for a mechanical, over chemical, removal method makes sense...

Federal's site states that no polymer is left in the bore, but I find that difficult to believe. I think it would depend on how smooth the bore was left after the rifling was cut/forged. Perhaps the usual bronze brush would take care of the polymer, if any.

If this is the future, and the claims are true, I am all in favor of bullets that leave my pistol bore easier to clean. They are a little bit pricey right now, however.

 

[billt460]

A lot of ammunition manufacturers are preparing for the day when totally encapsulated, or else completely lead free ammunition, will be all they'll be able to sell. Winchester is now selling non lead .22 ammunition. (100% Tin bullets). They have also begun selling steel shot Trap and Skeet loads. Because there are some Trap ranges that now require non lead shotgun shells only. We have had to use non toxic shot in waterfowl hunting since the late 70's. Many studies have proven over the last 20 years it hasn't accomplished anything as far as "saving" waterfowl that didn't need "saving" in the first place. This is being driven by both environmentalists, as well as the anti gun crowd.

There have been companies that "mine" lead shot from Trap ranges for decades. They are very effective from both a cost and environmental standpoint. The shot is then cleaned and sold to reloaders as "Reclaimed Shot". But there are still some counties in many of the liberal states like California and New York that want only totally lead free ammunition to be used.... Both in indoor ranges, and outdoor. With more being added every year.

The anti gun people love this, because it damages the shooting sports by making it much more expensive. Go price a box of lead free .22's, or a box of Winchester AA non toxic Trap loads, and you'll see what I mean. And in spite of this, it has never been proven that shooting lead based ammunition "contaminates" anything, or anyone. If it did we would see results of it from well over a century of lead ammo use.

Shooting ranges are being forced to close in this country left and right. By both environmentalists, as well as anti gun people in political positions. First they'll come after the range owners with noise abatement. "My child is woken up every Sunday morning to the sound of gunfire!" If that doesn't achieve the results they want, they'll start in with "safety". If that doesn't work, they'll come right back with, "lead contamination". I've seen 3 shotgun ranges shut down, (2 that I was a member of), since I moved into the house I currently reside in. I now have to drive over 60 miles round trip to shoot a round of Trap, instead of 5 miles.

And this is happening all over the country. I'm not trying to get political here. But that's exactly what is driving 90% of all of this, "lead free" ammunition use. Ammo companies are responding the only way they know how. And the end game will be added cost every time you the shooter drop the hammer.

 

[AMC]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Since my bore cleaner comes in plastic bottles, I would have to agree that dissolving plastic in the bore might require something besides regular bore cleaners designed to remove copper and lead...


Good point, except for the fact that there are so many different types of plastic out there. In fact, there are several companies that sell acetone and other nasty solvents in plastic bottles.

I am guessing federal kept this in mind when they formulated the plastic for their "synthetic" jacketed bullets. If there is enough interest, I could soak a sample of pulled bullets in a few different types of solvents, see what eats through the plastic first and snap pics along the way. Or you could just take my word for it that normal cleaning routines/supplies get this stuff out of the barrel.....

I would also guess that what is happening with the plastic fouling in these pistol rounds is the same thing that happens with metallic jacket fouling. The metallic jacket fouling doesn't stick to the inside of the bore by itself too well. The powder residue and carbon helps the jacket fouling stick to the inside of the barrel. Use solvent and brushes to get the carbon off and most of the jacket fouling comes off along with it. There will be a film of straight jacket fouling but not enough to make a huge difference.

Even in really accurate, match grade rifle barrels, the shooter, followed by wind are almost always the larger cause of erratic groupings, not any type of barrel fouling. When talking about the accuracy in a handheld pistol, barrel fouling is going to matter even less. Foe-gett-about-it!

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Interesting...Everything that I know that cleans up plastic (acetone, methylene chloride) tend to be highly damaging to finishes, gloves, etc...so, opting for a mechanical, over chemical, removal method makes sense...

Federal's site states that no polymer is left in the bore, but I find that difficult to believe. I think it would depend on how smooth the bore was left after the rifling was cut/forged. Perhaps the usual bronze brush would take care of the polymer, if any.

If this is the future, and the claims are true, I am all in favor of bullets that leave my pistol bore easier to clean. They are a little bit pricey right now, however.


Pricey?

After rebate one can buy 1000 rounds of 9mm for $159, shipped.

Polymer can mean a wide variety of things. Nothing says what's on the bullets is the same plastic as bore cleaner.

IMO worth a try. Not sure id want to mechanically clean a rifled barrel, but nothing says they'll have to.

 

[2cool]

There's a YouTube video of a guy shooting a 44mag BH over a chronograph with JHP and polymer coated. The poly bullets were about 100 fps faster.

 

[Ammofirst]

Could you post a link to the vid ?

 

[2cool]

I'm sorry, can't do it on a Kindle. The poster was Fortune Cookie45LC, or search for "44 magnum coated bullets".

 

[tom slick]

Nylon isn’t going to be “cleaned” out by any chemicals used on firearms. Fuel and lube systems are made with nylon (and polyethylene) and they are submerged in strong chemicals. I don’t know if coated bullets are cleaner or just cheaper. I’d certainly try them without hesitation.