Any Truck 5 Speeds to Avoid?

[garystaven88]

Strictly interested in some gearbox knowledge. I have done extensive research on engine platform and model shortcomings. I'd like to keep this strictly related to the gearbox.

Looking to purchase a basic cheap old truck that won't break the bank for a secondary vehicle (home depot runs, random house projects). I will avoid automatic trucks since most of the trucks in my price range are higher mileage. I understand this doesn't exempt manual shift trucks from issues but a high mileage automatic is way too risky.

90s thru 00s 2wd Rangers/Mazdas, S10/Sonoma/Hombre, Frontiers, Dakotas and single cab short bed full sizes from the big 3 are what I am considering. Won't even consider a Toyota. I know they are wonderful trucks but the market for them is bananas. I can get a much lower mileage truck for similar price from another manufacturer that I am sure will suit my needs just fine. If this were a daily driver then I would consider a Toyota for sure.

When it comes to truck 5 speeds, are there certain years/model trucks to avoid? Ford for example I have read that on certain year/models of their trucks the slave cylinder is inside the bell housing...

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Welcome to BITOG

For something that old, it's more about the condition of the specific example than make and model.

 

[Exhaustgases]

In the car world I know of quite a few manual transmissions that don't hold up very well. In many cases its how well they are used.
I suppose there are some no so dependable ones in the more modern truck world too.
It seems there is a certain time in auto manufacturing that every manufacture started building junk of sorts. I think it started in the 70's and 80's and has gone down hill since.

 

[eljefino]

The F150 with 300 6 and mazda 5 speed is something of a turkey. 1st gear is way too tall, the gearboxes leak oil then rattle in 3rd gear.

 

[JTK]

Some early 1990s Chevy truck 5MTs had problems with idler shaft bearings. My dad had a 1990 Chevy 1500 2wd, 4.3L with 5mt that went through this. It also had a fiberglass driveshaft that eventually had to have a custom metal one made.

 

[andrew_j]

Reality is reputation is irrelevant on a running truck that old.

 

[supton]

I wonder if today it is easier to rebuild an automatic than a manual. Or perhaps, it's possible to rebuild an automatic... if it's not something like an SM-465 or similar (one of the "classic" 4 speed manuals) then I wonder about parts availability etc. Even getting a junkyard box is getting harder today (the 5MT's I mean) since take rate has been low on manuals for decades now.

For a town-only beater, I'd shop condition first, then check parts availability. [That said, as I get older, the more I appreciate the automatic. Backing up a trailer with an automatic? without deep gearing, no I don't want to try again.]

 

[garystaven88]

I wonder if today it is easier to rebuild an automatic than a manual. Or perhaps, it's possible to rebuild an automatic... if it's not something like an SM-465 or similar (one of the "classic" 4 speed manuals) then I wonder about parts availability etc. Even getting a junkyard box is getting harder today (the 5MT's I mean) since take rate has been low on manuals for decades now.

For a town-only beater, I'd shop condition first, then check parts availability. [That said, as I get older, the more I appreciate the automatic. Backing up a trailer with an automatic? without deep gearing, no I don't want to try again.]

I just watched a few Youtube videos from "Transmission Bench". Great videos that cover all of the older Big 3 autos (4L60E, A4OD and 46RE). Definitely rebuildable at home with mainly all basic tools, access to a shop press and a few makeshift speciality tools. Something I definitely wouldn't be scared of. The problem is getting the transmission in/out of the truck without access to a lift sucks.

Come to think of it, 4 of the 5 trucks I have owned in the past were all higher mileage automatics and I never had issues with them (87 Ranger, 86 C10, 97 Econoline, 01 Sierra). The Dodge 46RE seems to be the riskiest of the bunch to own used without history of maintenance or proof of a quality rebuild...

 

[atikovi]

As long as it shifts and feels fine on the test drive, I wouldn't worry about it. It's a pretty simple device compared to an automatic and it's unlikely to go bad anytime soon.

 

[supton]

I just watched a few Youtube videos from "Transmission Bench". Great videos that cover all of the older Big 3 autos (4L60E, A4OD and 46RE). Definitely rebuildable at home with mainly all basic tools, access to a shop press and a few makeshift speciality tools. Something I definitely wouldn't be scared of. The problem is getting the transmission in/out of the truck without access to a lift sucks.

Come to think of it, 4 of the 5 trucks I have owned in the past were all higher mileage automatics and I never had issues with them (87 Ranger, 86 C10, 97 Econoline, 01 Sierra). The Dodge 46RE seems to be the riskiest of the bunch to own used without history of maintenance or proof of a quality rebuild...

That's the thing. I'm totally prone to it, thinking "it's an older 4AT, it's got to be down to its last friction". Thing is... many troop on with just fluid changes. Many of the bad ones died long ago (ones with bad machining and/or poor drivers).

After watching some of the vids I'm not sure I'd want to tackle rebuilding one (the 4L60's seem to have yearly variations) but piles of them are out there for remans, and in the bigger metro areas I bet one is more able to find a quality shop to rebuild one. I also have to wonder, if one did have a meltdown, for an around town beater, how hard would it be to swap something else in. I mean, I wouldn't want to drop from a 4AT to a 3AT but perhaps a "lesser" transmission could be stabbed in, especially if mpg's aren't the main concern.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

All of the Mazda 5 speed transmissions in the Rangers have an internal slave. Stupid, as that's a part that will wear out and fail. A lot of the ZF5s in the older Ford heavier trucks have internal slaves as well. And the cases are awful on the Ford ZF-manuals.

That's the thing. I'm totally prone to it, thinking "it's an older 4AT, it's got to be down to its last friction". Thing is... many troop on with just fluid changes. Many of the bad ones died long ago (ones with bad machining and/or poor drivers).

After watching some of the vids I'm not sure I'd want to tackle rebuilding one (the 4L60's seem to have yearly variations) but piles of them are out there for remans, and in the bigger metro areas I bet one is more able to find a quality shop to rebuild one. I also have to wonder, if one did have a meltdown, for an around town beater, how hard would it be to swap something else in. I mean, I wouldn't want to drop from a 4AT to a 3AT but perhaps a "lesser" transmission could be stabbed in, especially if mpg's aren't the main concern.

At least for my Marquis there's a bunch of transmissions local with lower mileage for sale under $800. I'd take a gamble on a cheaper transmission for it if I had to. However, I trust used engines a lot more that used auto transmissions ... people seem to change their engine oil every 3000 miles and forget about the other fluids in the vehicle for some reason.

 

[supton]

people seem to change their engine oil every 3000 miles and forget about the other fluids in the vehicle for some reason.

Well duh. Everyone and his uncle knows, motor oil is good only for 3k, after that you're damaging the engine. But after 100k, any grit in the trans fluid is what is preventing slippage, so you'd be an idiot to mess with it. My cousin's fiancés boyfriend's hairstylist once changed ATF in their car after 100k, and it died shortly thereafter, that fool got what he deserved.

 

[garystaven88]

Well duh. Everyone and his uncle knows, motor oil is good only for 3k, after that you're damaging the engine. But after 100k, any grit in the trans fluid is what is preventing slippage, so you'd be an idiot to mess with it. My cousin's fiancés boyfriend's hairstylist once changed ATF in their car after 100k, and it died shortly thereafter, that fool got what he deserved.

The CVT fluid in my daily 2015 Subaru Impreza.... (Subaru of America at least) claims it to be a "lifetime" fluid.... won't get into that one on this post!

 

[supton]

The CVT fluid in my daily 2015 Subaru Impreza.... (Subaru of America at least) claims it to be a "lifetime" fluid.... won't get into that one on this post!

No, I wouldn't either... I already did a spill and fill on my CVT (been putting off the eCVT for a better day, but at least that doesn't have any frictions in it, that thing probably does have a proper and true lifetime fill). I'm debating when to do the next spill and fill but the first drain was super clean (granted, I did not bother with dropping the pan).

 

[garystaven88]

No, I wouldn't either... I already did a spill and fill on my CVT (been putting off the eCVT for a better day, but at least that doesn't have any frictions in it, that thing probably does have a proper and true lifetime fill). I'm debating when to do the next spill and fill but the first drain was super clean (granted, I did not bother with dropping the pan).

Oh at this point I will not be touching it. 115k on it already and I vowed to follow their advice to a T. No issues. Still doesn't sit right with me but I guess it does work!

 

[supton]

Oh at this point I will not be touching it. 115k on it already and I vowed to follow their advice to a T. No issues. Still doesn't sit right with me but I guess it does work!

I'm sure it does. That fluid will last for the lifetime of that transmission.

 

[totegoat]

My last 5-speed was a '94 Ram Cummins, no problems.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I gave up on a stick as a daily driver long ago. Clutch will wear out multiple times before a well built, well maintained AT. If your buying used, you can almost count on needing a clutch at some point, at which you can change the internal slave cylinder as well. A clutch typically isn't as much work of course.

The gearbox themselves will also wear out - especially if abused. Most common is they will not hold high gear due to wear -will fly out of gear under load - with enough time.

 

[supton]

Clutch will wear out multiple times before a well built, well maintained AT. If your buying used, you can almost count on needing a clutch at some point, at which you can change the internal slave cylinder as well. A clutch typically isn't as much work of course.

Had to do a clutch job when the flywheel wore out. VW DMF for the win. 249kmiles on the clutch, looked perfect, but the springs in the flywheel gave up. Went with a new clutch anyhow, one with more holding power, and a SMF. I think that transmission was starting to make noise 50-60k later, go figure, I guess the failure prone DMF was more necessary than I thought.

Can't win.

 

[garystaven88]

I gave up on a stick as a daily driver long ago. Clutch will wear out multiple times before a well built, well maintained AT. If your buying used, you can almost count on needing a clutch at some point, at which you can change the internal slave cylinder as well. A clutch typically isn't as much work of course.

The gearbox themselves will also wear out - especially if abused. Most common is they will not hold high gear due to wear -will fly out of gear under load - with enough time.

Experienced that a time or two on the one stick shift truck I owned a longgg time ago.... 1978 F150 with the NP435. It would occasionally pop out of 2nd gear but that gearbox had a LOT of miles on it.