Amsoil vs. Mobil 1

[mdv]

quote:

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Originally posted by Spector:
As quoted above somewhere
"They also LOWERED the price to reflect the change in formulation. They are not trying to fool anyone into paying for a PAO when they are only getting a Group III."

Hmm, not quite true. Hey lowered the price, TWENTY CENTS GIVE ME BREAK!!!

They still market the XLseries as a SYNTHETIC using the Castrol ploy. Not really kosher in my opinion but AJ needs that boat payment.

Another quote from above.
"I'm mean how you can you compete against a product that is much cheaper to make but still calls itself synthetic?? You tell me?"

Yes, by continuing the quality. If they had lowered the price a buck or two yes, but twenty cents, that's insulting!

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20 cents is 20 cents. Would you rather they make it cheaper produce and increase the price like Castrol did to pad their bottom line more. In my local Wal-Mart Castrol Syntec is more expensive than Mobil 1, now that's a joke.

Why shouldn't they be able to market the XL7500's as synthetic if everyone else can? Again, one key difference is that they had the balls to say "Hey, heads up, we reformulated it" rather than shamelessly bilk consumers. There's also a huge link on every product page that features XL7500 that refers people to the article that describes the formulation change so new customers aren't left in the dark either.

 

[TooSlick]

From their respective web sites:

Amsoil XL-7500, 5w-30/Mobil 1, 5w-30 "supersyn"

Vis @ 100C, 10.3 Cst/10.1 Cst
VI,196/169
Noack Volatility, 8.8%/9.2%
Pour Point, -60F/-54F
HT/HS viscosity, 3.1 Cp/3.1 Cp
Four Ball Wear Scar,.38 mm/.60 mm
TBN,10.1/ ? - probably close

If you compare 10w-30's the XL-7500 also stacks up well ....

 

[satterfi]

quote:

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Originally posted by msparks:
[QB} snip

, the new Motorcycle lubes great stuff, and less expensive than the comparable Mobil 1 product. 0w40 4stroke oil for ATV's. I'm sure with the new Mobil 1 0w40 Amsoil will have something out to go against that as well. I would imagine a reformuluted 0w40 with a heavier additive package.

snip

[/QB]

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Could you expand on this. I'm always looking for the best protection in motorcycles. Amsoil was top notch before so why the change?

 

[TooSlick]

Satterfi,

The main difference I see is that they may be using a slightly thicker basestock for the 10w-40. The high temp properties have gotten a bit better and the low temp properties have gotten a bit worse.

Viscosity @ 100C, changed from 14.0 Cst to 14.7 Cst
HT/HS changed from 3.93 Cp to 4.2 Cp
Noack changed from 7.0% to 6.6% weight loss
Viscosity changed from 2600 Cp @ -20C, to 4500 Cp @ -25C. If you do the temp/viscosity conversion you'll see this is a thicker baseoil.

 

[satterfi]

TooSlick

I guess that's an improvement. Most motorcyclists don't head off in sub zero temps, but will endure 110F ambient temps.

Is the additive package about the same. Why anyone would need more is beyond me. Once you have enough is more better?

But I use RL, so I need to ask the question.

 

[Spector]

As I understand the motorcycle issue it was Harley that was saying it was the SJ oils that were not properly protecting the engines and that is why they were recommending only their oils as they were the old SH formulas. Amsoil then went ahead and placed more additives in the new cycle oils to combat the Harley claims. That was before the SL oils came out.

It amazes me that unlike RedLine or Schaeffers the Amsoil reps (except for a few) just keep on repeating the ole company line. This is what turns off most customers, especially over the long haul. and where they eventually lose the dealers. Ask most Amsoil dealers why they are no longer dealers, the company hype is usually at the top of the list.

 

[buster]

Tooslick, Amsoil is great, no doubt about it, but how can we have faith in Amsoil's numbers when people report numbers in the oil analysis section that just don't seem to support what Amsoil claims? There are som great resluts but if you read every test Amsoil puts out, you would have one think that Mobil 1 is inferior to Amsoil, but the data that consumers post shows otherwise. Four ball wear of .37 for 0w-30? The numbers are great, but in the real world, do they really have any value? The one thing I have learned since reading this board is that Amsoil's numbers don't always mean ther oil is better. Yes, it's great oil and I'm not saying Mobil 1 is better, but I think one could argue that there are inconsistancies with real world tests and Amsoil's benchmark tests. Like I said, I'm going to test both for my own curiosity. I'm an Amsoil customer and would like to go 10-15K, but i'm still skeptical...

BTW, how does Amsoil's 10w-30 stack up against M1 10w-30? I read this linkhttp://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/sequence_3f.htm and it looks very good. Either one is my summer choice.

[ December 23, 2002, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Giles]

quote:

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Originally posted by mdv:

quote:

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Originally posted by Giles:

quote:

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Third, have you seen this thread http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000248 ? The oil was in use for 11 months and 24,033 miles. Looked pretty good to me...

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Where does it say that it was XL7500 that was being tested? Also where does it say it was the new "Cheaper" formula?

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Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that was the XL7500 oil, it was the SAE 10W-30 formulate for 1 year or 25k. My point was that it seemed to hold up to that claim just fine.[/QB]

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Thanks for clarifying

 

[mdv]

quote:

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Originally posted by dagmando:

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:
The XL7500 line used to be PAO, but is now recently a group 3. They did this to lower costs.

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This is exactly why Amsoil has lost the little confidence I had in them. While Mobil 1 is making better oils, Amsoil is lowering the quality of their comsumer oil and riding on their name based on their Series 2000 oil. A typical marketing sceme, just like their distribution. Amagine if Mobil 1 made another, lower quality synthetic oil for quick-lube places and hoping the customer "thinks" he's getting the Mobil 1 quality. Amsoil is Series 2000 is a good oil, but it's all in the misleading character of the company between always coming up with some bogus test to say it superior to Mobil 1 to its distribution chain topped off with the XL-2000 oil actually going down in quality. On top of this, show me an trend of oil analysis that show a still good oil at even half their advertised change interval let alone the full, more advertising gimicks. I just do not trust the character of the company and who knows what they really are doing with the oils.

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First off, only the XL7500 oils were reformulated and the other oils are still PAO's. Since the XL7500 oils are geared towards the quick lube markets and not the oil fanatics on this board, does it really matter?

Second, unlike a certain "other" brand, the reformulation was announced, not hidden, and the company has been very upfront about the change when people ask. They don't hide behind semantics. They also LOWERED the price to reflect the change in formulation. They are not trying to fool anyone into paying for a PAO when they are only getting a Group III.

Third, have you seen this thread http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000248 ? The oil was in use for 11 months and 24,033 miles. Looked pretty good to me...

 

[Giles]

quote:

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Third, have you seen this thread http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000248 ? The oil was in use for 11 months and 24,033 miles. Looked pretty good to me...[/QB]

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Where does it say that it was XL7500 that was being tested? Also where does it say it was the new "Cheaper" formula?

 

[TooSlick]

Spector,

Those are the actual physical and chemical properties data from the respective companies. If you were comparing oils without the benefit of any additional information, I think you'd be more than likely to choose the XL-7500 product over Mobil 1. I believe either oil would provide comparable service over the course of a 7500 mile change interval. I can clearly recall when Amsoil first came out with the 7500 series stuff, they fleet tested it out to 12,000 miles in order to make sure it had some reserve capacity, so it'll do 7500 miles even under "severe service" conditions.

I happen to think that Mobil makes excellent synthetic lubes - in fact it's the stuff I recommend the most aside from Amsoil, particularly for diesel engines. As I have said on numerous occasions, Mobil Delvac 1, 5w-40 is a world class oil and is one product they have that compares favorably to the Amsoil synthetic diesel oils. I'd like to see more folks running Delvac 1 in gas engines, as I think it could turn out to be an excellent extended drain oil for those applications. I may end up doing that myself sometime in the near future, just to get some comparative data.

I think that Mobil 1 is the best value in the $4.00-$4.50/quart range in a synthetic lube, but based on the recent Redline 5w-40 data, I'd say both Amsoil and Redline are now making a better "cost is no object" PAO/Ester synthetic lube.

Happy Holidays, BTW!

Ted K.

 

[buster]

Interesting...good post and Happy Holidays to you too!
It's interesting to me how some feel Amsoil is behind the technology bc they are not using Moly. As stated in prior posts, they don't feel they need doesnt mean there behind.
Go EAGLES!!

[ December 24, 2002, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[buster]

Can we assume that the "competitor" is Mobil 1? If so, it sure doesn't look like it did a good job.

http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/sequence_3f.htm

[ December 25, 2002, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[mdv]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Can we assume that the "competitor" is Mobil 1? If so, it sure doesn't look like it did a good job.

http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/sequence_3f.htm

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I would suspect that Mobil 1 would hold up better than that. My guess is that the "competitor" is a conventional oil, not synthetic.

 

[buster]

I don't think i ever mentioned this but I have noticed since I've switched to Amsoil that the pisont slap/valve tap noise i was hearing on very cold morning starts has gone away since using Amsoil. Don't know why this is, but it's gone. I should have analysis in Feb. for Amsoil followed by M1 in late March.

 

[red2rebel]

Just a quick question , I now use Mobil1 , and I do A LOT of in-town driving. I have had my truck 2 years and 6 months , and only have 12,600 miles on it! How would switching to Amsoil benefit me over Mobil1? As it is now , I use the months as opposed to the milage to change my oil. I switched from Dino Oil at about 4000 miles.

Thanking you in advance

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by red2rebel:
Just a quick question , I now use Mobil1 , and I do A LOT of in-town driving. I have had my truck 2 years and 6 months , and only have 12,600 miles on it! How would switching to Amsoil benefit me over Mobil1? As it is now , I use the months as opposed to the milage to change my oil. I switched from Dino Oil at about 4000 miles.

Thanking you in advance

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Switching to Amsoil would be of no benefit to you, IMO.

 

[Spector]

You put on so few miles that you are correct in changing by months and even Mobil 1 is overkill due to the cost for you. Dino every 3 months would be more economical in the winter and 6 months in the warmer months.

 

[Giles]

Redrebel, I think you should stick with Mobil 1 if you want to keep the car until it dies. You can benefit from the higher TBN of Mobil or Amsoil. I take it from your description that you sit in traffic as much as you are moving (lot's of idling). If you only plan on selling it before 50,000 miles then use a good conventional oil and save your money IMO.

 

[buster]

I like both and this is how I think of it FWIW.

Convienience Mobil 1
Long Drains Amsoil
Wear Equal, slight edge to M1 with Moly
Price Mobil 1

Based on all the analysis on here, Mobil 1 will do as good of a job as Amsoil up to around 8k miles. Amsoil's formulations are geared towards longer drains.