Amsoil - no longer commenting on Base Oils

[Don Stefanik]

Well at least everyone is giving Mobil 1 a rest.

My belief is that AMSOIL does whats best for the company and it's dealers. We just might be seeing a whole new line of products coming out. After all they have a VERY large new facility and I'm pretty sure that's where the blending plant will move too. The old plant may start to make Food Grade products.
We won't know till it happens guys.
As for the consumers out there.........there may be only 1th of 1% who really understand the difference between Group 3 and POA's.
I know out of my customers not one understands what a PAO is or for that matter cares.
All they know and want is a good product. Price doesn't seem to be that big an issue to most.

 

[Ugly3]

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. . . My point is real simple. There is conflicting data on both sides of the issue and really we know nothing. However, so many folks pick a side and rant about it. Why not get some data first?

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OK, I see better where you're coming from. I'll readily agree that we have conflicting data. But I disagree that we "know nothing". Further, I'm willing to draw some tentative conclusions from the present shortage of info. In particular, Mobil's present silence, their affirmative unwillingness to answer simple questions (and I'm not talking about precise formula info) to me speaks volumes (but no, does not directly resolve the issue either). As noted in a parallel thread, Mobil used to openly trumpet the "85% PAO and 15% POE" backbone of M1. Now, at the same moment that data appears calling M1's compostion, XOM has started using the same doublespeak as the other brewers who've given in to the temptation to go G-III. In my opinion, much of the "ranting" on this topic is largely a result of Mobil's refusal to just be straight with their long-term customers who have questions. If nothing else, they've given the "ranters" enough fuel to keep this thing going for a very long time. The result should surprise no one.

EDIT: As to Amsoil, I'd say you're correct. At least I've seen no data to indicat that Amsoil has substituted G-III where they were previously using other base oils.

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How about Georges 98% sure XOM is PAO?

 

[ARB1977]

Oh well i still have a couple oil changes worth of Amsoil so ill explore other options then. The only reason is that changing oil every six months with this stuff is a waste.

 

[buster]

I'd say most of their oils are still PAO based. It's anyone's guess as to what happens down the line.

 

[Steve S]

I simply say you want me to use your pricey product you tell me what is in it . Last week I was shopping for some product and I asked where was the product manufactured? After a none of your business type answer ,I did not buy from them. .

 

[Steve S]

High quality GPIII oils seem to work very good especially at GPIII prices.

 

[buster]

It appears that well formulated maj. grp 3 base oils can be good for extended drains. The only oil I think that might not change would be S2k 0w-30.

 

[PT1]

I don't understand why anyone would think a corporation would have customer service people commenting on their research or proprietary formulas. My company has us sign contracts that legally prevent us from disclosure of such information. HELLO?? The people at Amsoil would have to be complete idiots to tell anybody anything over the phone. If you think I am crazy...or way off base here then call Mrs. Fields cookies and ask for their recipe for choclate chip cookies.

SO here goes my rumor for today: Did you hear Mrs. Fields is no longer using real sugar in their cookies...I was filling my car at the Sunoco this morning and the guy behind the counter had just finished one and told me "absolutley no sugar". So I called customer service and they wouldn't comment.......LIARS!!! LOL

 

[Triple_Se7en]

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I don't understand why anyone would think a corporation would have customer service people commenting on their research or proprietary formulas. My company has us sign contracts that legally prevent us from disclosure of such information. HELLO?? The people at Amsoil would have to be complete idiots to tell anybody anything over the phone. If you think I am crazy...or way off base here then call Mrs. Fields cookies and ask for their recipe for choclate chip cookies.

SO here goes my rumor for today: Did you hear Mrs. Fields is no longer using real sugar in their cookies...I was filling my car at the Sunoco this morning and the guy behind the counter had just finished one and told me "absolutley no sugar". So I called customer service and they wouldn't comment.......LIARS!!! LOL

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When makers of products like Mobil-1 and Amsoil say their stuff is the best and lasts the longest, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to compute that PAO ans esters are needed.

So when someone asks them if they are still using a majority of PAO and esters to backup their claim of being the best, then a simple nod of "yes or no" is expected... let me change that to "required" in my little world of oils.

Without that nod, they don't get what's inside my wallet.
Simple As That!!!!

 

[Johnny]

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I don't understand why anyone would think a corporation would have customer service people commenting on their research or proprietary formulas. My company has us sign contracts that legally prevent us from disclosure of such information. HELLO?? The people at Amsoil would have to be complete idiots to tell anybody anything over the phone. If you think I am crazy...or way off base here then call Mrs. Fields cookies and ask for their recipe for choclate chip cookies.

SO here goes my rumor for today: Did you hear Mrs. Fields is no longer using real sugar in their cookies...I was filling my car at the Sunoco this morning and the guy behind the counter had just finished one and told me "absolutley no sugar". So I called customer service and they wouldn't comment.......LIARS!!! LOL

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When makers of products like Mobil-1 and Amsoil say their stuff is the best and lasts the longest, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to compute that PAO ans esters are needed.

So when someone asks them if they are still using a majority of PAO and esters to backup their claim of being the best, then a simple nod of "yes or no" is expected... let me change that to "required" in my little world of oils.

Without that nod, they don't get what's inside my wallet.
Simple As That!!!!

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Well heck, I can agree with both of these statements. Here is my only comment on Amsoil. When they came out with their XL series Group III oils they were up front about it, but they have always made it clear the difference between Group III and PAO. I also remember the BIG all PAO labels on the cases, even had a hat that stated it. Since 1972 they have bosted about the fact that they used PAO base stocks when others did not. So, if they are going to start playing big corporate games it will hurt them in the long run. You cannot all start making statements it's the performance of the finished product, when for over 30 years you have said it's the PAO. But as PT1 said, don't expect a straight answer by someone that answers a phone. Just my opinion

 

[Lonnie]

Again, specs and lab tests are not the end all of oil performance in the real world. They are a really good indicator but there are still GII+ oils that do well without synthetic components. If oil companies did not learn from the Mobil 1 vs Castrol decision and start switching to GIII right away, the eventually learned and made the switch. Those kind of decisions are made by the bean counters, not the chemist. If Mobil 1 switched they probally started after the sale to Exxon. The Mobil 1 product line was the orphan child in this deal and not part of Exxon's regular business plan. Exxon was after the back end business and ditched all the Mobil gas stations. I'll bet that Mobil 1 was kept because it was a good business all by itself and somehow managed to survive the takeover. If you buy Mobil 1 products you are buying a product from a big corporation and if you buy Amsoil or Red Line you are buying a product from a tiny little corporation that may have bean counters that are much closer to the chemists and the products. The gap between the ingredients and the price might be tighter with the small company and you'll still pay more for the product. With Mobil 1 you might be taking advantage of paying for the advertising while still getting a product that is good enough. The Exxon bean counters probably know what Mobil 1 is but could care less about making it any better than good enough, after all it's just a line on the spread sheet. For Amsoil or Red Line the speciality oil is the spreadsheet.

 

[Johnny]

Lonnie, for peace in the world I hope you are correct (about the last sentence)

 

[TeeDub]

Amsoil is a privately owned owned corporation and they don't have to answer to stockholders. They have made big gains in market share (about four times what it was a few years back) by concentrating on making the best, "cost is no object" synthetic lubes and high efficiency filters. I don't see that changing since they are not ever going to have the lowest priced sylube at Walmart or Costco.

The majors are fighting for shelf space at Walmart,where price is everything. That's a totally different type of customer base than the motorheads buying Amsoil for performance reasons and/or to run greatly extended drains.

The "benchmark" Amsoil uses for their engine oils are the best synthetics coming out of Europe like the GC/0w-30 and the Mobil 1/0w-40. Those are their main competitors (along with Amsoils' previous in-house formulations), in terms of extended drain capability and performance.

TD

 

[Lonnie]

Ted, you said what I said only better.

 

[harrydog]

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I don't understand why anyone would think a corporation would have customer service people commenting on their research or proprietary formulas. My company has us sign contracts that legally prevent us from disclosure of such information. HELLO?? The people at Amsoil would have to be complete idiots to tell anybody anything over the phone. If you think I am crazy...or way off base here then call Mrs. Fields cookies and ask for their recipe for choclate chip cookies.

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The difference is, Mrs. fields lists the ingredients on the label, so substituting something else would be illegal and stupid. Amsoil, and any other oil manufacturer can substitute anything, anytime they want with no ramifications. As long as it performs up to the expectations of 99+% of the consumers out there, they have no problems and a higher profit margin.
My gripe is, they are not being completely open and honest about the changes, which means they are purposely practicing deception. But they don't care, since the consumers to whom it matters are small in numbers.

 

[buster]

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by concentrating on making the best, "cost is no object" synthetic lubes and high efficiency filters. I don't see that changing since they are not ever going to have the lowest priced sylube at Walmart or Costco.

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Yes and no. When Amsoil has a price hike, they usually make a big deal about it. I think they care about price more than you think. Cost is no object would be a high ester based oil like RL. If Amsoil can make 15-25k mile drain oils using "some" group III, don't think they wont' do it. I still believe they will maj. pao but will def. include some grp 3 base oils.

 

[buster]

...the wording and less detail now found in the MSDS shows something has changed. Just my opinion.

 

[Pablo]

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...the wording and less detail now found in the MSDS shows something has changed. Just my opinion.

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There you go again. Yes we all know the formulations changed in 2006. It's not an evil thing.

I think you should give it a rest, buster. Your next post with solid evidence might be believable.

 

[jbas]

"I know out of my customers not one understands what a PAO is or for that matter cares. All they know and want is a good product. Price doesn't seem to be that big an issue to most."

LOL! Must be dumb, rich folks not to care about the price or the science behind a tech-product. HEY, JUST KIDDING!

Actually, I'm glad for Mr. Stefanik & his customer base. To me, price matters! And the science, else I/We wouldn't be on BITOG... Anyway, it sounds like the distance ability of the oils, either Grp. III or PAO, is maybe less important than the length of time factor of 1 year, at least for Mr. Stefanik's customers. (Also, remember Amsoil recently commented that their traditional SL-rated diesel oils are recommended to customers for long OCIs, even over their new SM-rated 5W-40 diesel oil).

 

[ekpolk]

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I don't understand why anyone would think a corporation would have customer service people commenting on their research or proprietary formulas. My company has us sign contracts that legally prevent us from disclosure of such information. HELLO?? The people at Amsoil would have to be complete idiots to tell anybody anything over the phone. If you think I am crazy...or way off base here then call Mrs. Fields cookies and ask for their recipe for choclate chip cookies.

SO here goes my rumor for today: Did you hear Mrs. Fields is no longer using real sugar in their cookies...I was filling my car at the Sunoco this morning and the guy behind the counter had just finished one and told me "absolutley no sugar". So I called customer service and they wouldn't comment.......LIARS!!! LOL

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Since you've been here all of ten days, it's even more clear that you're not tuned into what the real issue is. Nobody is asking any of the oil brewers for their formulas. They would certainly be totally within their rights to refuse to discuss such things. We're talking about wanting to know the fundamental nature of the products involved. In addition, while I have not seen any lab data as to Amsoil, so for Amsoil the origin of this thread might be fairly called a "rumor," such is not the case with Mobil. While the data is far from filled in, we have members here who state that they have performed lab work which calls into question the nature of the oils in question. And really, the last LOL is on you. As pointed out in one of the parallel threads, when Mobil was of the only true PAO-based products available, they loudly trumpeted rough percentages of the base oils used. Until very recently, Amsoil also explicitly said what they used. So your assertion that oil brewers won't share info about their products is just false. They certainly will share such info, when they feel that it's in their best interest to do so. . .. And when they suddenly stop, that says something too.

Maybe a little more homework is in order before you come charging out "LOL-ing" those who've been following this for a long time.