Amsoil - no longer commenting on Base Oils

[buster]

I called Amsoil tech service today to find out about the 0w-20. Heidi said she thinks about 3 more months until the new 0w-20 is out.

I also slipped in the base oil question asking her if Amsoil still uses PAO's for their top of the line oils. I brought up the M1 issue. She said "we don't comment on what base oils we use as that is proprietary information". This coupled with the rumor Amsoil is testing Group III's doesn't surprise me. It wouldn't surprise me if Amsoil is going the same route as Mobil 1. Amsoil changed their FAQ website page soon after the M1 news hit the web regarding base oils used. So it's important I think to remember to just look at the final product in real service to determine the quality of the oil and with Amsoil your getting very good quality. So, it appears to me at least that maj. PAO based oils will be a smaller market than before and that Amsoil is also going to keep all of this hush hush as well.

 

[TimVipond]

I'm not sure why all the companies are so hush hush about their formulations.

I guess as long as Amsoil continues to compare their products against the competition, comes out on top and their competitors do not dispute it, and still have the longest warranted change intervals in the business, I will continue to use their products. Maybe the market is changing so much and so quickly, oil companies want the flexibility to use group IIIs, PAO, Internal Alpha Olefins, Esters, gas to liquid synthetics, and others, they don't want to be tied down to a specific formulation indefinitly. They would have to rewrite brochures, product labels, MSDS, websites, etc, everytime they make a change.

However, I think they do have to meet the properties listed on their data sheets, and Amsoil seems to have the most complete data sheets and best listed properties of any oil. And maybe these numbers are more important than formulations as long as they get the results.

 

[427Z06]

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She said "we don't comment on what base oils we use as that is proprietary information". This coupled with the rumor Amsoil is testing Group III's doesn't surprise me. It wouldn't surprise me if Amsoil is going the same route as Mobil 1.

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Then I'll stop considering use of their products too. If a manufacturer won't give me at least some idea of what I'm receiving for my cash, I simply refuse to buy their product. While final product performance is the ultimate acknowledgment of efficacy, the quality of the ingredients often tell the tale. It's why I inquire on the DA and MPEG decoder ICs before buying electronics components. A quality product is hard to build from inferior ingredients.

 

[badtlc]

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She said "we don't comment on what base oils we use as that is proprietary information". This coupled with the rumor Amsoil is testing Group III's doesn't surprise me. It wouldn't surprise me if Amsoil is going the same route as Mobil 1.

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Then I'll stop considering use of their products too. If a manufacturer won't give me at least some idea of what I'm receiving for my cash, I simply refuse to buy their product. While final product performance is the ultimate acknowledgment of efficacy, the quality of the ingredients often tell the tale. It's why I inquire on the DA and MPEG decoder ICs before buying electronics components. A quality product is hard to build from inferior ingredients.

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You do know that the DAC or any other IC is not necessarily what determines the quality of the product, right? Cheap chips can produce top shelf quality, just as well as expensive chips. The most crucial part about DACs and many other ICs is the implementation. That is where you found how much quality a company is putting into their productions. A great implementation of any IC will produce outstanding results.

 

[427Z06]

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She said "we don't comment on what base oils we use as that is proprietary information". This coupled with the rumor Amsoil is testing Group III's doesn't surprise me. It wouldn't surprise me if Amsoil is going the same route as Mobil 1.

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Then I'll stop considering use of their products too. If a manufacturer won't give me at least some idea of what I'm receiving for my cash, I simply refuse to buy their product. While final product performance is the ultimate acknowledgment of efficacy, the quality of the ingredients often tell the tale. It's why I inquire on the DA and MPEG decoder ICs before buying electronics components. A quality product is hard to build from inferior ingredients.

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You do know that the DAC or any other IC is not necessarily what determines the quality of the product, right? Cheap chips can produce top shelf quality, just as well as expensive chips. The most crucial part about DACs and many other ICs is the implementation. That is where you found how much quality a company is putting into their productions. A great implementation of any IC will produce outstanding results.

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Bullhockey. While a great implementation of an IC may produce outstanding results. A great implementation of an superior IC will produce superior results.


End of discussion. Period!

 

[Sparkman]

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Bullhockey. While a great implementation of an IC may produce outstanding results. A great implementation of an superior IC will produce superior results.

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Agreed

 

[OriginHacker21]

Poster: 427Z06

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Then I'll stop considering use of their products too. If a manufacturer won't give me at least some idea of what I'm receiving for my cash, I simply refuse to buy their product.

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x2

 

[KJA426]

We might as well get used to it. It's much cheaper for companies to use Group III basestocks. The companies are in business to make money and if they can increase profits by cutting costs then they will do so. I'm from the old school. I believe that it must be a Group IV or V to be a true synthetic.

 

[DragRace]

HA! They go pulling this #@$%!,I'll cross them off my list of oils to use as well!

 

[427Z06]

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We might as well get used to it. It's much cheaper for companies to use Group III basestocks.

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Sure...if they were touting equivalent performance for less cost or raising the low bar of API oils, but it looks like we'll get increased prices for questionable equivalent performance while they're making more profit.

My comments here apply to the standard bearor...the supposed pinnacles of performance. When technology is advanced you either get the same performance for less costs or a better product for the same costs. It looks like we'll get neither unless we show them we're informed consumers.

 

[Pablo]

Excuse me. Do we have any proof here? I'm not sure who Heidi is, or exactly what she said - but this is a fact now? Some guy named "buster" posts something on the internet - and by G0D it's now a fact?!?! I've never spoken to Heidi (nor heard of her) but in a way she is right - NO company will give out their formula for general discussion. The phone techs are told this. Duh!

I'm going with what I know to be FACT. The XL line has group III. The 15w40 blend has group II and IV. The remainder of the oils are PAO and ester. (Group IV mainly, with some Group V)

 

[salesrep]

 

[Winston]

x2

 

[Pablo]

Facts? GC shots? Data? (Buster - the same guy who can't be religious because it's not "fact based"). Interesting.

 

[badtlc]

[quote
Bullhockey. While a great implementation of an IC may produce outstanding results. A great implementation of an superior IC will produce superior results.


End of discussion. Period!

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I'm only an electrical engineer with a masters in electromagenetic pulse theory. So we will just have to agree to disagree.

IMO, 80%+ of determined "quality" is based on implementation and design, not which chips are used.

 

[Pablo]

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Currently, each AMSOIL lubricant is formulated with the synthetic base oil or combination of base oils best suited to that lubricant’s application demands. They are optimized using the most advanced premium synthetic base oils. Although AMSOIL has publicly stated that its XL motor oils are Group III based and its other motor oils are PAO based, specific formulary information beyond that is exclusive and proprietary. AMSOIL views synthetic base oils the same as it views additives.

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This is the statement Buster is hinting at. His "rumor" about Amsoil testing Group III is based on some guy PM'ing him. This "guy" supposedly works at the lab that is doing the testing. Think about it for a few moments. Amsoil uses Group III!! (When I challenged buster on this he said the guy conveniently said it's not for the XL line!)

A real professional lab PM'ing Buster. OK. I'll accept that. Regardless of the NDA signed by the lab. OK. The guy is putting his job and the lab at risk. Violations of NDA usually involve the possibly of a huge law suit - to PM buster with the latest scoop? Fine.

I'll just say somebody has been a little bored lately. Maybe under a little stress. Who knows?

 

[LouDawg]

Pablo...I don't know about Amsoil yet, but here is an interesting little exchange regarding Mobil 1. I've used the analogy before, but I thought this might be a little more thought-provoking.

==========================

"Welcome to the Mobile 1 Cafe. What can we prepare for you today, sir?"

"Yes, I'd like a filet mignon, with the California Medley, a side Caesar Salad, and a glass of Chardonnay, please."

"Fine choice sir. How can we cook it for you?"

"Medium-rare, please!"

"Very good, sir! We'll have it ready for you soon. In the meantime, please enjoy the music and our complementary rolls."

(15 minutes later)

"Here you are sir. Enjoy!"

(After first bite...)

"Waiter, hold on. This is a sirloin!"

"I'm sorry sir, I don't understand what the problem is."

"Well, I ordered a filet mignon, and you brought me a sirloin! That's what the problem is!"

"Sir, does the taste not please you? Is it cooked improperly? Is it cold? Did it take too long?"

"No! It tastes *fine* for a sirloin, it's cooked and prepared properly, it's certainly hot, and you brought it out in decent time."

"Does it not satisfy your hunger? Does it not fulfill your biological desire to eat a steak?"

"Well, yes I'm sure it would fill me up if I ate it, and sirloins are okay I guess, but certainly not as good as filets!"

"Well sir, I don't see what the problem is."

"The problem is that I didn't order a *sirloin*...I ordered a *filet mignon*!"

"Sir, I'm sorry, but we don't discuss the content of our steaks. We strive to meet our customers needs for steak. You should not focus on what *kind* of steak it is and instead only consider if it meets your physiological need for meat and sustenance. The type of meat we actually use is proprietary, as is our method of preparation."

"I didn't ASK how you prepared it! I only asked that it be a filet! I ordered and am willing to pay for a filet, but you brought me a sirloin!"

"I'm sorry sir, but this is all we can tell you. Would you like your check now, sir?"

"Yeah, sure...whatever."

"Here you go."

"WHAT?! This is $46.29!!! For a sirloin?! That's what you USED to charge me for a filet mignon!"

"Sir, again...I must remind you. It's not what you ordered that's important. It's whether or not it met your immediate physical needs. Steak is steak...it's only how we *prepare* it that really matters. When it's all done, they all taste the same. Please pay the cashier on your way out. Oh, and thank you for dining at Mobil 1 Cafe. Have a nice day!"

 

[buster]

Hold on Pablo...

Let me explain a few things. I don't know for a fact whether or not Amsoil is now using Grp III. I have been told by a source that they have been testing Group III base oils for some time and that they are now/going to be mostly Grp III based.

I have no issues with it if they do. This is NOT a shot at Amsoil or Pablo. I can promise you that. Pablo is a GREAT dealer.

Pablo rather than go on the defensive, you should embrace this change because it's coming your way. Nothing remains constant. Start reading up on Group III base oils now. LOL Maybe with Amsoil, we will see some returns show up in the pricing. Fact is, the product should meet the claims it makes and perform.

 

[Pablo]

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I don't know for a fact whether or not Amsoil is now using Grp III

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Thank you.

 

[buster]

Companies are allowed to make money. Lot of other "cost of goods sold" increased for oil companies/blenders. Don't rule that out and do realize this is how free markets work.