All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil

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Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The mostly GTL Super Tech High-Mileage 0W-20 is a great choice. Mobil 1 AFE, EP, and AP 0W-20 have even better base oils, a little higher TBN, except with the caveat of possibly somewhat higher iron number (valvetrain wear) because of some ester in base oil.
You seemingly post an amazing amount of information with no substantiation and never answer pointed questions when posed to you such as the ones I and Shannow asked previously. From what source is the information in bold derived or this more supposition?
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The mostly GTL Super Tech High-Mileage 0W-20 is a great choice. Mobil 1 AFE, EP, and AP 0W-20 have even better base oils, a little higher TBN, except with the caveat of possibly somewhat higher iron number (valvetrain wear) because of some ester in base oil.
You seemingly post an amazing amount of information with no substantiation and never answer pointed questions when posed to you such as the ones I and Shannow asked previously. From what source is the information in bold derived or this more supposition?


And we’ve only seen a tiny splash of Esterex in M1 … like a utilitarian dose …
That gets saved for the major leagues …
 
Regarding polyol ester (POE) in Mobil 1, the dose doesn't seem high and the very high iron numbers, presumably caused by base-oil choices at the time, are definitely a thing of the past. Nevertheless, people still seem to experience slightly higher iron numbers with M1 (perhaps even more so with M1 EP) in their UOA's in comparison to other high-quality oils.

Also, with more Mobil Super and Mobil 1 oils using more GTL with every update, I expect the poyol ester to decrease even more.

However, polyol ester does have advantages, such as engine cleaning, lower oxidation rate (longer OCI's), and lubricity improvement.

Perhaps M1 can switch from polyol ester to alkylated naphthalene (AN), which has similar advantages but doesn't increase the valvetrain wear rate.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Regarding polyol esters in Mobil 1, the dose doesn't seem high and the very high iron numbers, presumably caused by base-oil choices at the time, are definitely a thing of the past. Nevertheless, people still seem to experience slightly higher iron numbers with M1 (perhaps even more so with M1 EP) in their UOA's in comparison to other high-quality oils.
I never have and have posted enough UOAs to prove it. I have no idea what iron numbers were generated by M1 prior to 2010, but all of the M1 I have used since then has produced the same or less than comparable oils--at least in my engines.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Also, with more Mobil Super and Mobil 1 oils using more GTL with every update, I expect the poyol esters to decrease even more.
Where is the proof that Mobil oils are being made with GTL? Do you a statement or document from Mobil that validates this? P.S--how about answering my and Shannow's questions from earlier in the thread.
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
P.S--how about answering my and Shannow's questions from earlier in the thread.

I already did:

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
We only have data for Super Tech High-Mileage Synthetic 0W-20, not any other Super Tech oils.

This shouldn't be a surprise because GTL is widely available and cheap now. Mobil Super Synthetic 0W-20 is also mostly GTL, along with Genuine Nissan Motor Oil 0W-20 (best base oil tested), TGMO 0W-20 © 2015, etc.
We know this for a fact ?

That they are GTL ?

How can the Nissan be better than TGMO when it's got a viscosity index similar to some C3 5W30s ?

In case of Genuine Nissan Motor Oil, it's verified by the MSDS.

In case of TGMO © 2015, Oil-Club Russia verified it by FTIR.

5W-30 typically uses more VII, therefore has a higher VI than 0W-20 for the given base-oil VI.

PS: Shannow, since when VI = 174 is considered low?
 
blush.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
P.S--how about answering my and Shannow's questions from earlier in the thread.

I already did:

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
We only have data for Super Tech High-Mileage Synthetic 0W-20, not any other Super Tech oils.

This shouldn't be a surprise because GTL is widely available and cheap now. Mobil Super Synthetic 0W-20 is also mostly GTL, along with Genuine Nissan Motor Oil 0W-20 (best base oil tested), TGMO 0W-20 © 2015, etc.
We know this for a fact ?

That they are GTL ?

How can the Nissan be better than TGMO when it's got a viscosity index similar to some C3 5W30s ?

In case of Genuine Nissan Motor Oil, it's verified by the MSDS.

In case of TGMO © 2015, Oil-Club Russia verified it by FTIR.

5W-30 typically uses more VII, therefore has a higher VI than 0W-20 for the given base-oil VI.

PS: Shannow, since when VI = 174 is considered low?
Unless I missed it no:

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Nevertheless, it's great that GTL is now finding its way into the budget oils, making them outperform the performance oils.
Based upon what and using what test criteria?
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Where is the proof that Mobil oils are being made with GTL? Do you a statement or document from Mobil that validates this?

GTL: DISTILLATES, HEAVY, C18-50 - BRANCHED, CYCLIC AND LINEAR -- CAS# 848301-69-9

http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/psims.aspx
I am not able to access the link. What percentage GTL is in it?
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
PS: Shannow, since when VI = 174 is considered low?


When TGMO is the flavour of your month, 220+ VI is the only parameter that matters. BTW, does the jump in moly mean they've gone away from trinuclear, also another Gohkan flavour of the month.

Was just wondering how an oil with a lowly 175, which can be achieved by a C3 5W30 was now acceptable for your new flavour of the month, or have you seen the folly in your previous proselyting ?

Seems like only the other day that you were (erroneously) saying base oil and high VI meant that a 0W20 could be better for bearings than a 30 at a dangerous 170C....that's certainly unlikely in the case of the "current best" Nissan Genuine Motor Oil isn't it ?
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
PS: Shannow, since when VI = 174 is considered low?


When TGMO is the flavour of your month, 220+ VI is the only parameter that matters. BTW, does the jump in moly mean they've gone away from trinuclear, also another Gohkan flavour of the month.

Was just wondering how an oil with a lowly 175, which can be achieved by a C3 5W30 was now acceptable for your new flavour of the month, or have you seen the folly in your previous proselyting ?

Seems like only the other day that you were (erroneously) saying base oil and high VI meant that a 0W20 could be better for bearings than a 30 at a dangerous 170C....that's certainly unlikely in the case of the "current best" Nissan Genuine Motor Oil isn't it ?


Gokhan knows nothing except how to dodge technical questions from OVERKILL, SHANNOW, 2015_PSD and other knowledgeable people
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Where is the proof that Mobil oils are being made with GTL? Do you a statement or document from Mobil that validates this?

GTL: DISTILLATES, HEAVY, C18-50 - BRANCHED, CYCLIC AND LINEAR -- CAS# 848301-69-9

http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/psims.aspx
I am not able to access the link. What percentage GTL is in it?



I could not either.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Where is the proof that Mobil oils are being made with GTL? Do you a statement or document from Mobil that validates this?

GTL: DISTILLATES, HEAVY, C18-50 - BRANCHED, CYCLIC AND LINEAR -- CAS# 848301-69-9

http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/psims.aspx

I am not able to access the link. What percentage GTL is in it?

I could not either.

Hmm, try this:

http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/

GTL: DISTILLATES, HEAVY, C18-50 - BRANCHED, CYCLIC AND LINEAR -- CAS# 848301-69-9
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan

I could not either. Hmm, try this:

http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/

GTL: DISTILLATES, HEAVY, C18-50 - BRANCHED, CYCLIC AND LINEAR -- CAS# 848301-69-9
This not a direct link to the MSDS, this is a link to a search engine which could point me to various MSDS files. Can you post the direct link to the document that you were reviewing?
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
BTW, does the jump in moly mean they've gone away from trinuclear, also another Gohkan flavour of the month.


You must have missed this in the "TGMO is the milk suckled from the breast of Aphrodite" thread:

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Regarding moly types, trinuclear moly is very potent, working fairly well in smaller doses, but I now realize that it seems to be overhyped.

I recently read a paper on a study with different moly types. I think the conclusion was that the dinuclear moly, which is the most common type of moly made by additive companies, is the best in reducing both friction and wear, as well as in having good synergy with ZDDP. This is probably especially so for high moly content. I can't readily find the link though. It's a long paper by Japanese researchers (who else?).
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: Gokhan

I could not either. Hmm, try this:

http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/

GTL: DISTILLATES, HEAVY, C18-50 - BRANCHED, CYCLIC AND LINEAR -- CAS# 848301-69-9

This not a direct link to the MSDS, this is a link to a search engine which could point me to various MSDS files. Can you post the direct link to the document that you were reviewing?

There are many dozens of Mobil Super and Mobil 1 products. Please do your own research by typing in the search field if you are really interested in approximately how much GTL is in various oils.

As an example of a Mobil 1 oil out of many that contain GTL, M1 FS 0W-40 has 40 - 70% GTL according to the MSDS.
 
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: Gokhan

I could not either. Hmm, try this:

http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/

GTL: DISTILLATES, HEAVY, C18-50 - BRANCHED, CYCLIC AND LINEAR -- CAS# 848301-69-9
This not a direct link to the MSDS, this is a link to a search engine which could point me to various MSDS files. Can you post the direct link to the document that you were reviewing?


Just search for 0w-40 and click on the 0w-40 FS product. You'll see that CAS #. Not sure how that ties in here though, as the 0w-20 products being discussed, M1 EP, AP and AFE are all PAO-based, the former two significant majority
21.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Just search for 0w-40 and click on the 0w-40 FS product. You'll see that CAS #. Not sure how that ties in here though, as the 0w-20 products being discussed, M1 EP, AP and AFE are all PAO-based, the former two significant majority
21.gif


Yes, M1 0W-20 flavors are still PAO and Group III, not to mean that some of them won't transition to GTL in the near future. For example M1 AFE 0W-20 is about half-PAO and half-Group-III. When they transition more into GTL, it could be mostly GTL.

This is not the case for 5W-20 though. It's already mostly GTL with no PAO. So, the transition has already happened there.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Just search for 0w-40 and click on the 0w-40 FS product. You'll see that CAS #. Not sure how that ties in here though, as the 0w-20 products being discussed, M1 EP, AP and AFE are all PAO-based, the former two significant majority
21.gif


Yes, M1 0W-20 flavors are still PAO and Group III, not to mean that some of them won't transition to GTL in the near future. This is not the case for 5W-20 though.


Right, but what does that have to do with the discussion of the 0w-20's which aren't?

Mobil using GTL is old news, I started the thread on the 0w-40 going GTL back when it first did, and that was their first oil to do so. They are still using PAO in varying quantities where I assume it may be necessary or desirable to do so, like it seems, in the 0w-20 AP and EP products, and in varying degrees in the AFE lineup. Not sure if this shows us limitations of GTL in replacing PAO in those grades or they are simply just retained old formulations (which would be odd for the AP oil, being a new product). But that's simply wild speculation on my part.
 
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