Alabama picked for Toyota-Mazda plant, sources say

[javacontour]

True, Toyota has also partnered with GM. The NUMMI plant in Freemont, CA, where GM and Toyota jointly built cars. Some were GM badged Toyotas.

I am sure there are other examples of cooperation.

Many European automakers bought US manufacturers engines and transmissions for their vehicles. I'm thinking of GM automatics in BMWs and Rover (IIRC) buying the rights to a Buick V8.

The Duratec V6 offered by Ford in the mid 1990s in the Mondeo in Europe and Contour/Mystique in the US was designed by Porsche and then made "Forderized" by Ford for mass production. At least according to Terry Haynes, who was an engineer on the CDW-27 platform back in the 1990s.

He spoke to a Ford Contour enthusiasts group nation wide meet in the early 2000s. So take that for what it's worth.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Cheap, plentiful labor and zero threat of the plant going union.


Pretty much the truth. Lots of cheap labor available.

Originally Posted By: Trav
The skilled workforce is long gone in places that previously built most of the cars.


Yes, true.... but assembly isn't a truly a "skilled" position. Tab A fits into slot B.

Automakers know the truth - to stay profitable, assembly needs to happen away from union dominated areas.

 

[SatinSilver]

At the Toyota plant in Georgetown, KY they start the workers off with a $26/hr wage. And this was years ago.

 

[PimTac]

Way more robots than assembly line workers I think.

 

[nthach]

If anything, Toyota/Mazda might start a training program with the local community colleges - ditch the 4-year degree, we will guarantee you a job above production if you go to school for an associate's degree in industrial technology or a vocational field. BMW does that in South Carolina.

Toyota also has a plant in Alabama I think - it's an engine plant. Honda, Hyundai and Mercedes is already in AL so the logistics links are there to varying degrees.

 

[edyvw]

Alabama does not have money to fund public education, infant mortality rate is higher then in many third world countries, state police does not get enough funds, etc. etc. but there is money for tax brakes and paychecks to workers for next 2 years.
I lived in Alabama for 7 years, worked in higher education and worked for some consultants that were involved in VW deal that AL lost to TN. There is no doubt that for example Hyundai plant contributed to community in Montgomery. However, it is far from what would worker in Michigan be paid or benefits they would enjoy there.
States like AL only attract pure manufacturing. High skilled jobs that Toyota and Mazda provide like development etc. will be in other states that heavily invest in education. That is NOT Alabama.

 

[javacontour]

Ironic that you would chide Alabama for education related issues and can't use the correct form of breaks.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Alabama does not have money to fund public education, infant mortality rate is higher then in many third world countries, state police does not get enough funds, etc. etc. but there is money for tax brakes and paychecks to workers for next 2 years.
I lived in Alabama for 7 years, worked in higher education and worked for some consultants that were involved in VW deal that AL lost to TN. There is no doubt that for example Hyundai plant contributed to community in Montgomery. However, it is far from what would worker in Michigan be paid or benefits they would enjoy there.
States like AL only attract pure manufacturing. High skilled jobs that Toyota and Mazda provide like development etc. will be in other states that heavily invest in education. That is NOT Alabama.

 

[flinter]

Its nice to hear this news. But the bump in new jobs will be temporary, as AI (artificial intelligence) and robotics will totally eliminate all those new jobs that are being created within the next 10 years. Of those estimated 4000 new jobs, I would guess up to 80% will be eliminated in 10 years. So it's pretty much a wash.

There is NO future for these poor folks getting all excited for these new jobs. These will just be temporary jobs until AI and robots take over the entire plant.

 

[PandaBear]

Highly doubt AI will eliminate the manufacturing jobs like that. Things will go modular and require fewer human assembly for sure, and what can be automated will be automated, but a lot of times human are much more flexible and nimble, does not require 1M of investment that "may return in 10 years".

When you have 1M sqft of floor space you will need to have some people there working on stuff, even just on the phone with engineers checking out what is going on remotely.

Now data center is another story, you can have 10 people swapping out dead equipment 247 on 1M sqft.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Ironic that you would chide Alabama for education related issues and can't use the correct form of breaks.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Alabama does not have money to fund public education, infant mortality rate is higher then in many third world countries, state police does not get enough funds, etc. etc. but there is money for tax brakes and paychecks to workers for next 2 years.
I lived in Alabama for 7 years, worked in higher education and worked for some consultants that were involved in VW deal that AL lost to TN. There is no doubt that for example Hyundai plant contributed to community in Montgomery. However, it is far from what would worker in Michigan be paid or benefits they would enjoy there.
States like AL only attract pure manufacturing. High skilled jobs that Toyota and Mazda provide like development etc. will be in other states that heavily invest in education. That is NOT Alabama.

Your observation is very important detail in what I tried to say on forum where various people get together to discuss some stuff.
When I was graduate assistant at one university in AL I would conduct test first class. Test would consist of 10 questions from citizenship test that is offered to immigrants when they apply for the U.S. citizenship.Questions like: who was first president etc. (you can find questions online). 70-80% of class (freshmen) would fail test. Those are kids that came out of AL public education. However, one of those kids that failed (he actually did not know what event happened on 4th of July) noticed that English is my second language saying: well, you could use articles more often.
Your observation reminds me of that.

 

[javacontour]

So what you are saying is that when you point out another's shortcomings, it's OK. But when others point out your shortcomings,
somehow it's wrong or inappropriate.

Got it!

My view is if you are going to chide others for a lack of knowledge, being uneducated or ignorant, then you best have your argument and presentation locked down airtight.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Ironic that you would chide Alabama for education related issues and can't use the correct form of breaks.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Alabama does not have money to fund public education, infant mortality rate is higher then in many third world countries, state police does not get enough funds, etc. etc. but there is money for tax brakes and paychecks to workers for next 2 years.
I lived in Alabama for 7 years, worked in higher education and worked for some consultants that were involved in VW deal that AL lost to TN. There is no doubt that for example Hyundai plant contributed to community in Montgomery. However, it is far from what would worker in Michigan be paid or benefits they would enjoy there.
States like AL only attract pure manufacturing. High skilled jobs that Toyota and Mazda provide like development etc. will be in other states that heavily invest in education. That is NOT Alabama.

Your observation is very important detail in what I tried to say on forum where various people get together to discuss some stuff.
When I was graduate assistant at one university in AL I would conduct test first class. Test would consist of 10 questions from citizenship test that is offered to immigrants when they apply for the U.S. citizenship.Questions like: who was first president etc. (you can find questions online). 70-80% of class (freshmen) would fail test. Those are kids that came out of AL public education. However, one of those kids that failed (he actually did not know what event happened on 4th of July) noticed that English is my second language saying: well, you could use articles more often.
Your observation reminds me of that.

 

[Thermo1223]

Sorry but when someone resorts to the grammar nazi standard any argument you tried to make is lost. I can't add anything meaningfull to the discussion so i'll just be a jerk and attack grammar.

That being said, I'd rather drive something made here in any fashion than out of country if possible. So sounds like a win for all well except maybe GM & Ford.

 

[PimTac]

I think we will start to see the first hybrid crossovers for Mazda coming out of this plant. It would make sense.

Human labor these days in modern auto assembly plants feed the machines and the tasks that machines cannot do or what is cheaper for the company. Both Mazda and Toyota are highly automated.

 

[javacontour]

I'd agree with you if the form of the argument was "We need to brake off diplomatic relations with Elbonia." and the only retort was you don't know how to spell break.

But when the argument is "Those folks don't measure up to my level of education...." and it contains grammar errors, the grammar errors are fair game because the person has asserted superiority in the face of their misuse of the language.

So I'd agree with you if the argument presented was of the first form. But, when the person arguing is making a claim of superior education, it's not being a grammar Nazi. It is demonstrating that perhaps they should reconsider their view of superiority.

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Sorry but when someone resorts to the grammar nazi standard any argument you tried to make is lost. I can't add anything meaningfull to the discussion so i'll just be a jerk and attack grammar.

That being said, I'd rather drive something made here in any fashion than out of country if possible. So sounds like a win for all well except maybe GM & Ford.

 

[Silverado12]

The best solution is to try to buy a domestic car made by a domestic manufacturer. No wonder they have a hard time competing with all these giveaway deals going to foreign mfg. in the South.

 

[klt1986]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
So what you are saying is that when you point out another's shortcomings, it's OK. But when others point out your shortcomings,
somehow it's wrong or inappropriate.

Got it!

My view is if you are going to chide others for a lack of knowledge, being uneducated or ignorant, then you best have your argument and presentation locked down airtight.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Ironic that you would chide Alabama for education related issues and can't use the correct form of breaks.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Alabama does not have money to fund public education, infant mortality rate is higher then in many third world countries, state police does not get enough funds, etc. etc. but there is money for tax brakes and paychecks to workers for next 2 years.
I lived in Alabama for 7 years, worked in higher education and worked for some consultants that were involved in VW deal that AL lost to TN. There is no doubt that for example Hyundai plant contributed to community in Montgomery. However, it is far from what would worker in Michigan be paid or benefits they would enjoy there.
States like AL only attract pure manufacturing. High skilled jobs that Toyota and Mazda provide like development etc. will be in other states that heavily invest in education. That is NOT Alabama.

Your observation is very important detail in what I tried to say on forum where various people get together to discuss some stuff.
When I was graduate assistant at one university in AL I would conduct test first class. Test would consist of 10 questions from citizenship test that is offered to immigrants when they apply for the U.S. citizenship.Questions like: who was first president etc. (you can find questions online). 70-80% of class (freshmen) would fail test. Those are kids that came out of AL public education. However, one of those kids that failed (he actually did not know what event happened on 4th of July) noticed that English is my second language saying: well, you could use articles more often.
Your observation reminds me of that.



I agree with you. Slam someone for something, then you better have your own act together. The reply to you was even worse, IMO. Anyway, these jobs will benefit the fine citizens of Alabama. I wish we could have landed these jobs in NC or VA. The area I live in along the VA/NC border was heavy into the knitting mills and furniture factories. The last 25 years have decimated many of these areas.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Sorry but when someone resorts to the grammar nazi standard any argument you tried to make is lost. I can't add anything meaningfull to the discussion so i'll just be a jerk and attack grammar.

That being said, I'd rather drive something made here in any fashion than out of country if possible. So sounds like a win for all well except maybe GM & Ford.

Grammar is standard "argument" on forums.
The discussion immediately moves to" me against you. My point was that Alabama has money for tax breaks, but not for public education, and good jobs do not come without education.
But, for some people that is higher math.

 

[javacontour]

Actually, which level of government is putting up the funds?

If Alabama is anything like IL, most education is LOCALLY funded. So if the state is funding the tax breaks, it is not taking away from local funds.

Personally, I'm not in favor of such special tax deals. If an enterprise is going to make money, then it doesn't need special help from the government. But, the reality is tax breaks are part of the national business climate.

I'd rather see them simply give EVERYONE a break, and if business can't make it on the lower taxes, then that place isn't for them.

Also, education isn't a panacea. I work in IT. In my previous job, I would travel the nation training people on technologies like Java,
Networking, Solaris, Fault Analysis, and anything else in Sun Microsystems course catalog. Today, we have very little instructor led training. Companies expect people to learn it via Google or on-line training.

I'm a Systems Support Engineer these days. I go on-site. In the past 18 years, my customers have changed. Where I once worked with people in the United States, today I largely work with people in India and Eastern Europe.

Educated Systems Administrators and DBAs in the US are being replaced with off-shore workers.

Education is no guarantee that you will keep your well paying job.

In some ways, there is a bit more security in working in the factory, as you are actually touching something and it's there in AL.
If your job can be done with a keyboard, it can be done anywhere in the world.

So while education is important, never forget that we still need skilled trades and that many well educated people are being replaced with the global labor pool.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Sorry but when someone resorts to the grammar nazi standard any argument you tried to make is lost. I can't add anything meaningfull to the discussion so i'll just be a jerk and attack grammar.

That being said, I'd rather drive something made here in any fashion than out of country if possible. So sounds like a win for all well except maybe GM & Ford.

Grammar is standard "argument" on forums.
The discussion immediately moves to" me against you. My point was that Alabama has money for tax breaks, but not for public education, and good jobs do not come without education.
But, for some people that is higher math.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
The best solution is to try to buy a domestic car made by a domestic manufacturer. No wonder they have a hard time competing with all these giveaway deals going to foreign mfg. in the South.




How much of the domestic auto manufacturing process contains foreign outsourced materials? A lot of engines come out of old Mexico to go into your American car or truck. A lot of stuff unseen comes from all over.

 

[bbhero]

Very true PimTac. The supposed "American" car and truck manufacturers have been sending everything production wise elsewhere. There is a lot more to this conversation shall we say... And it goes into many different aspects of daily life. Many of those aspects are very difficult to talk about and not become heated in nature. One thing that I have noted a long time ago was just how hard it is to "disagree" via typed messages. It is extremely hard not to come across the wrong way.