Aftermarket turbo BRZ oil recommedations

[stevo585]

Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
Consider redline.


Worth the money over the M1 HM? I suppose its peanuts compared to a new short block...

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
...To answer your question, I'd stick with a very robust 5W-30. With the port injection you shouldn't have to worry too much about deposits, right? Your main concern will be the turbo and trying not to spin a bearing. I'd pay as much money as I could to keep this thing running for as long as you can. Were there options for a coolant-cooled turbo for your BRZ?

Good luck! Sounds awesome!


I agree, he won't have to mess around with Subaru Top Engine Cleaner and its funky little tool like I was yesterday (have also run the Carbon Cleaner with the same tool). At least I didn't almost completely screw up a fairly simple procedure like I did last time...


I'd love to hear more. Start a thread with pics, please!


Do you want pics of me doing it correctly with the Top Engine Cleaner or messing it up with the Carbon Cleaner?
;^)
Well, I didn't have the camera out either time, but I suppose I could do something next time. I watched a YouTube video of a guy doing it on his '15 FXT to identify the right vacuum hose and for general tips. The Carbon Cleaner really has a strong bleach/ammonia type of smell, I assumed the TEC was just going to be some kind of petrochemical solvent but it also had a pretty good basic whiff to it (not quite as strong).

Part of the reason for messing up the first time was that I was trying to get it done just before an oil change when I had a long drive coming up...I know that I should take my time whenever I'm doing something brand new to me, but it just seemed like it was such a simple job. And it was simple, but rushing led to some stupid mistakes. My biggest problem was probably not interrupting the flow of the cleaner early enough to give the engine some revs, the bottle says to shut the valve on the tool when you're down to 2/3 and then 1/3 of full and rev but it was very hard to tell how much was left in the bottle with the heavy metal probe of the tool screwed into it. When I first went to shut the flow of cleaner off, my revs dropped suddenly and I hesitated a bit, probably left the valve in an intermediate position between its two settings and air wasn't flowing properly. Then I suddenly realized the bottle was almost empty and my car stalled when I jumped in to rev the engine up! It took a LOT of cranking to get going again and I was cursing a blue streak.

No apparent harm done, and I just shut the flow of cleaner off every minute or so to rev up the engine when I ran the TEC a few days ago. So I took 5 or 6 rev breaks instead of the recommended 2, so what. I do this cleaning mostly for peace of mind, but I did notice right away that my usually bouncy morning idle was quite a bit smoother the next day and today. The butt dyno thinks things have improved, but that thing is so prone to suggestion...

This is the video I watched...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM7tv04S1fg

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: stevo585

In a way yes it is DIT but it never runs DI only its always some mix of PI too about 30%. Also my turbo doesn't spool super fast like an oem turbo. Its 3-4k range spool. LSPI is usually from high loads in a tall gear or low rpm which I generally cant even do. Its easy to avoid just be in the right gear...

The ESP is interesting doesn't seem to far off from the HM 10w30 which is easier to find.


Yes, running high RPMs when you get on it should help a lot. The paddle shifting on my CVT is generally too slow for me during sporty driving, but I will usually stab at the downshift paddle when I am going to get on it to help avoid the high torque, low rev conditions that tends to trigger LSPI...and because it's also a lot more fun to drive that way. ;^)

I am thinking about a 10W30 for my warmer seasons and will look at M1 10W30 HM, thanks for the tip. Certainly must be a lot cheaper than that ESP...
Cheers!

 

[2004tdigls]

this oil is really tough and still a 30W

http://www.chevronlubricants.com/en_US/products/products/Delo_400_SD_SAE_15W-30.html#.WaWF9tiQxdg

 

[rrounds]

Put a water injection kit on the intake and you won't have any carbon build up on the valves, combustion chamber or exhaust. Been used on high performance engines for over 80 years. If you ever have to pop a head off you will be surprised at how clean the heads and pistons will be. It's only on when your going WOT or very close to WOT so you don't need a big tank for the water.

I have used one for 40 years(water/meth) on my drag car. Heads, valves and pistons always look brand new even my headers look new, on the inside that is.

ROD

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: stevo585
Originally Posted By: CT8
At least 0W-40 qnd get a pyrometer to let you see the turbo temps and let the turbo cool to around 300*f before shut down. I bet the torque increase makes the BRZ super.


You think a 0w40 huh?.. that's way thicker than OEM spec. The '15+ WRX which uses the same engine (except lower comp pistons) specs 5w30 which is why I went with that. But yes the extra torque is nice it really is a top end rocket! The car has 255 dur. cams stock more of a revvy top end motor. Its sitting around 285whp and 230wtq on a low boost conservative tune to save the clutch.

The whole pyrometer seems really inconvenient would like to avoid that. I do let it idle after pulls but just driving to work and putting around town I don't.

Subaru Japan allows 5W40 in a stock BRZ so no question an xW40 would be a good choice for you to run. The HTHS of Red Line 5W30 is 3.7 and the HTHS of M1 0W-0 is 3.6 and I would be comfortable running either (or any other ACEA A3/B4 oil).

If you intend to track it, definitely go with an oil cooler such as a Forester XT OEM oil cooler. The operating viscosity of the Mobil1 5W30 that you're running is very likely a 20 grade.

This pretty much sums it up. At least run a 0w40 or 5w40.

You really need a used oil analysis though. You could potentially need and/ or benefit from a 10w60 as Trav posted. Castrol also makes a 5w50 that I want to say is an A3/B3.

Are you good about idling your engine before shut off so your turbo can cool?

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: stevo585
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: stevo585
Originally Posted By: CT8
At least 0W-40 qnd get a pyrometer to let you see the turbo temps and let the turbo cool to around 300*f before shut down. I bet the torque increase makes the BRZ super.


You think a 0w40 huh?.. that's way thicker than OEM spec. The '15+ WRX which uses the same engine (except lower comp pistons) specs 5w30 which is why I went with that. But yes the extra torque is nice it really is a top end rocket! The car has 255 dur. cams stock more of a revvy top end motor. Its sitting around 285whp and 230wtq on a low boost conservative tune to save the clutch.

The whole pyrometer seems really inconvenient would like to avoid that. I do let it idle after pulls but just driving to work and putting around town I don't.


The WRX comes with a direct-injected turbo FA20F engine. Your direct AND port-injected N/A FA20D engine now has a turbo, so I'd say the change you implemented constitutes a less-than-conservative result. 285/230 at the wheels is a substantial gain over stock - HUGE!

Who tuned you and what boost levels you're running?

//

To answer your question, I'd stick with a very robust 5W-30. With the port injection you shouldn't have to worry too much about deposits, right? Your main concern will be the turbo and trying not to spin a bearing. I'd pay as much money as I could to keep this thing running for as long as you can. Were there options for a coolant-cooled turbo for your BRZ?

Good luck! Sounds awesome!


Well what I meant is that power level is considered "safe". I could push up to about 425whp with my turbo with the right fuel, clutch etc. Its tuned by HRI tuning who is one of the best tuners for the platform. Its street tuned, in person, on 9-10psi. We backed off 1-2 degrees of timing advance from the knock wall and afr at 11.5. Very safe and conservative. Sure there are lots of water cooled turbos like Garrett GTX series but I didn't want to spend 1600 for a turbo. I'm only 3-4k all in right now running a PTE 5431 MFS (billet wheel) journal bearing hence oil only.


Sounds like a freaking blast! Are you datalogging?

You've responded to some other posts below, but I'll respond here RE: oil: I would absolutely spend any amount of oil to ensure this things lives a long life. As you mention below, $5 more/qt of oil is preferable to needing a new long-block. I wonder what people here on BITOG think about Rotella T6 for this application. I don't believe it's been mentioned at all yet.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
...To answer your question, I'd stick with a very robust 5W-30. With the port injection you shouldn't have to worry too much about deposits, right? Your main concern will be the turbo and trying not to spin a bearing. I'd pay as much money as I could to keep this thing running for as long as you can. Were there options for a coolant-cooled turbo for your BRZ?

Good luck! Sounds awesome!


I agree, he won't have to mess around with Subaru Top Engine Cleaner and its funky little tool like I was yesterday (have also run the Carbon Cleaner with the same tool). At least I didn't almost completely screw up a fairly simple procedure like I did last time...


I'd love to hear more. Start a thread with pics, please!


Do you want pics of me doing it correctly with the Top Engine Cleaner or messing it up with the Carbon Cleaner?
;^)
Well, I didn't have the camera out either time, but I suppose I could do something next time. I watched a YouTube video of a guy doing it on his '15 FXT to identify the right vacuum hose and for general tips. The Carbon Cleaner really has a strong bleach/ammonia type of smell, I assumed the TEC was just going to be some kind of petrochemical solvent but it also had a pretty good basic whiff to it (not quite as strong).

Part of the reason for messing up the first time was that I was trying to get it done just before an oil change when I had a long drive coming up...I know that I should take my time whenever I'm doing something brand new to me, but it just seemed like it was such a simple job. And it was simple, but rushing led to some stupid mistakes. My biggest problem was probably not interrupting the flow of the cleaner early enough to give the engine some revs, the bottle says to shut the valve on the tool when you're down to 2/3 and then 1/3 of full and rev but it was very hard to tell how much was left in the bottle with the heavy metal probe of the tool screwed into it. When I first went to shut the flow of cleaner off, my revs dropped suddenly and I hesitated a bit, probably left the valve in an intermediate position between its two settings and air wasn't flowing properly. Then I suddenly realized the bottle was almost empty and my car stalled when I jumped in to rev the engine up! It took a LOT of cranking to get going again and I was cursing a blue streak.

No apparent harm done, and I just shut the flow of cleaner off every minute or so to rev up the engine when I ran the TEC a few days ago. So I took 5 or 6 rev breaks instead of the recommended 2, so what. I do this cleaning mostly for peace of mind, but I did notice right away that my usually bouncy morning idle was quite a bit smoother the next day and today. The butt dyno thinks things have improved, but that thing is so prone to suggestion...

This is the video I watched...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM7tv04S1fg


Uh, yes to both!? haha

I'll have to take a look at that video. I plan on possibly doing this some time in the future. Seems like a good Italian tune-up actually works wonders with this engine. I'd be very interested to see how my valves look, with ~50k miles now.

 

[stevo585]

To my surprise my oil temp was 210F today on the Torque app. Big drop for only a few degrees drop in ambient was still 91 today. Only change is I now run Aces IV fuel additive. Seems to have cooled my engine...if I can figure out how to post a pic I will.

 

[stevo585]

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool

Uh, yes to both!? haha

I'll have to take a look at that video. I plan on possibly doing this some time in the future. Seems like a good Italian tune-up actually works wonders with this engine. I'd be very interested to see how my valves look, with ~50k miles now.


If I had made a video of my Carbon Clean debacle, it would have been NSFW for sure...

Oh yeah, I believe very much in the Italian tune up for my FXT and did a particularly aggressive one after using the Top Engine Cleaner. There are some long hills near my house and I like to get down to a near stop at the bases and then roar up at WOT for as long as I can...forgot to slap my OBDII transceiver on Sunday so I could look at my boost profile up the hill once I had crested. An older couple in a Grand Cherokee was in front of me for a while and the driver seemed to get freaked out by my odd little routine...he would see me flying up the hill from a near stop way behind him and slow down dramatically, making me cut my WOT run short. I was all like, Grampa, I'm not pulling you over, get back on the gas!!! ;^)

 

[subzerospeed]

Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: subzerospeed
i recommend a medium grade viscosity with an awesome hths and film strength. Redline 5-30 is my recommendation to run. the 30 weight should be good for the clearances in the brz aka not too thick like that "redline 10w60" recommendation. and being that the oil is redline it will last long as [censored] and the shearing and deteriorating associated with lesser oils wont happen. RUN REDLINE YOU WONT HAVE OIL QUALITY ISSUES .

You realize the use of a humorous emoji in posting usually denotes an attempt at humor?

LOL i wasnt making an attempt at a humorous post haha..

 

[bigj_16]

Originally Posted By: subzerospeed
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: subzerospeed
i recommend a medium grade viscosity with an awesome hths and film strength. Redline 5-30 is my recommendation to run. the 30 weight should be good for the clearances in the brz aka not too thick like that "redline 10w60" recommendation. and being that the oil is redline it will last long as [censored] and the shearing and deteriorating associated with lesser oils wont happen. RUN REDLINE YOU WONT HAVE OIL QUALITY ISSUES .

You realize the use of a humorous emoji in posting usually denotes an attempt at humor?

LOL i wasnt making an attempt at a humorous post haha..


I believe the point I was trying to make is: Referencing your statement " like that "redline 10w60" recommendation". I was the one that made that "recommendation". As I posted it with the emoji, it was supposed to be done in jest, which apparently was lost in translation with some.

 

[stevo585]

Where do you guys find redline locally in retailers? I have basically everything around here in Orlando.

 

[subzerospeed]

Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: subzerospeed
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: subzerospeed
i recommend a medium grade viscosity with an awesome hths and film strength. Redline 5-30 is my recommendation to run. the 30 weight should be good for the clearances in the brz aka not too thick like that "redline 10w60" recommendation. and being that the oil is redline it will last long as [censored] and the shearing and deteriorating associated with lesser oils wont happen. RUN REDLINE YOU WONT HAVE OIL QUALITY ISSUES .

You realize the use of a humorous emoji in posting usually denotes an attempt at humor?

LOL i wasnt making an attempt at a humorous post haha..


I believe the point I was trying to make is: Referencing your statement " like that "redline 10w60" recommendation". I was the one that made that "recommendation". As I posted it with the emoji, it was supposed to be done in jest, which apparently was lost in translation with some.

Sorry bro. I get so hyped about oil sometimes i get ahead of myself haha. I gotchya now!

 

[stevo585]

I put in some 10w30 M1 HM today (only $22/5 qt), since it seems like Redline is online order only. Plan to go to 3k and do a UOA.

 

[gathermewool]

Sounds like a reasonable plan. If you don't drive like a maniac I bet it will produce good numbers.

I'm most curious to see how much fuel dilution you end up with and it's affect on flash point and viscosity.

For something like this, I would send a sample to Terry Dyson. His RAW analysis (just the results, no personal interpretation of the data) is a bit pricey, but worth it for special circumstances (such as for a blown, high-revving engine).

Good luck and keep us up to date!

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool

I'm most curious to see how much fuel dilution you end up with and it's affect on flash point and viscosity.

Generally BRZ's don't suffer the same fate as Subaru DIT's thanks to the port injection (if that's why you're curious). Although modified BRZ's sometimes do show a bit more fuel than stock BRZ's. Lots of modified and stock uoa's at ft86club if you're interested.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

I'm most curious to see how much fuel dilution you end up with and it's affect on flash point and viscosity.

Generally BRZ's don't suffer the same fate as Subaru DIT's thanks to the port injection (if that's why you're curious). Although modified BRZ's sometimes do show a bit more fuel than stock BRZ's. Lots of modified and stock uoa's at ft86club if you're interested.


Does that hold true for blown BRZ's, as well?

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

I'm most curious to see how much fuel dilution you end up with and it's affect on flash point and viscosity.

Generally BRZ's don't suffer the same fate as Subaru DIT's thanks to the port injection (if that's why you're curious). Although modified BRZ's sometimes do show a bit more fuel than stock BRZ's. Lots of modified and stock uoa's at ft86club if you're interested.


Does that hold true for blown BRZ's, as well?

I just checked the mega uoa thread there and only one came up when I searched on turbo in that thread. Blackstone uoa on Amsoil SS 0W20 showed fuel at <.5% and FP at 400 on a 7,700 mile interval. I believe there are more boosted uoa's posted there if you want to have a look.