ACDelco PF64 - C&P - Torn Media!

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: WellOiled
Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: webfors


Question: of all the filters available with the 22psi bypass spec, which one is the most likely to be of the best construction with respect to reliability. Meaning, which ones have we seen 0 defects/failures for?

There is no efficiency without the media staying in tact. Top contenders are:

Wix WL10290
Wix WL10290XP
ACDelco UPF64R


The UPF64R actually has a 35psi bypass.


Would this be a good alternative for the ATS, while keeping GM happy with respect to warranty? I may be able to convince GM to use this filter exclusively going forward as a result of my poor experience with the iPhone PF64.

Are there any good C&P of this filter?

If I were in your shoes I would consider the following:
I would choose WIX WL10290 or 57502. The efficiency is 50% at 6 microns and 95% at 20 microns. And enough capacity to go past the OLM. And a 22 PSI bypass setting.

During December, January, February, March and mid April you might consider a 0W30 Dexos 1 Gen 2 oil. Alternatively, put the ATS in the garage or put a sump heater on it.

I was planning to ask you when the oil and filter were installed and when they were changed as well as an idea of your driving habits. This along with the UOA may shed light on what to do next.

I’m thinking Cadillac will want to do some diagnostics to see if there is a problem that needs attention.

I hope Cadillac treats you well.


I like the Wix 57502. It seems to have all the right qualifications. However, poor pleating can still cause a failure.

Cadillac offers maintenance included for the first 4 years. I want to hold them to that for warranty purposes and also because I plan on selling the car in 5 years. Dealer service always looks good when selling. I suspect I can force them to use the UPF64R, even if it comes at a cost.

Another consideration would be an oversized Fram Ultra, specifically XG10575. More media = less chance of a bypass event even with the 9-15psi bypass setting. Reading over threads where the delta-p was provided by Fram for the Ultra media, it appears it would take cold weather and high rpms on a cold engine to cause a bypass event. In this case is the 22psi bypass spec relevant?

At this point I just want assurances that I won't go 5k miles again without filtered oil. A metal backed synthetic media, with construction like the Ultra, will almost certainly provide that assurance, regardless of the statistical outlier scenario of a bypass event.

Now, if someone can point me towards a Donaldson Synteq filter that fits my car, I'll go with that

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: WellOiled

During December, January, February, March and mid April you might consider a 0W30 Dexos 1 Gen 2 oil. Alternatively, put the ATS in the garage or put a sump heater on it.

I was planning to ask you when the oil and filter were installed and when they were changed as well as an idea of your driving habits. This along with the UOA may shed light on what to do next.

I’m thinking Cadillac will want to do some diagnostics to see if there is a problem that needs attention.

I hope Cadillac treats you well.


Regarding winter months, the ATS is in the garage, which is about 10-15 degrees warmer than outside. It will still get below freezing in there during the cold spells.

The filter was put on in December, so approximately 3 months of service. I commute about 15 miles each way and park in heated underground parking at work.

I'm easy on the car until it's warmed up. Never rev the engine until coolant reached operating temps. When warmed up, it gets WOT multiple times per day.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
If I were in your shoes I would consider the following:
I would choose WIX WL10290 or 57502. The efficiency is 50% at 6 microns and 95% at 20 microns. And enough capacity to go past the OLM. And a 22 PSI bypass setting.


I like the Wix 57502. It seems to have all the right qualifications. However, poor pleating can still cause a failure.


Haven't really seen any media tears on WIX filters here. Not to say it can't happen, but it seems to not be an issue with them.

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
If I were in your shoes I would consider the following:
I would choose WIX WL10290 or 57502. The efficiency is 50% at 6 microns and 95% at 20 microns. And enough capacity to go past the OLM. And a 22 PSI bypass setting.


I like the Wix 57502. It seems to have all the right qualifications. However, poor pleating can still cause a failure.


Haven't really seen any media tears on WIX filters here. Not to say it can't happen, but it seems to not be an issue with them.

All the WIX 51372 I have used had straight even pleating. The eCores I have run had the best pleating of all. The UOA may be interesting.

 

[webfors]

Just cracked open the XG10060 that was on the ATS briefly last fall. Compared it to the PF64. There is no comparison. The XG10060 is such a well built filter. My concern, in another thread, was the pleat count between the two. I counted 52 vs 38. However the pleat count doesn't tell the whole story. The pleat depth of the XG is easily 50% deeper than the PF64. Meaning, there is almost certainly more square inches of media in the XG vs the PF from my observation.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Just cracked open the XG10060 that was on the ATS briefly last fall. Compared it to the PF64. There is no comparison. The XG10060 is such a well built filter. My concern, in another thread, was the pleat count between the two. I counted 52 vs 38. However the pleat count doesn't tell the whole story. The pleat depth of the XG is easily 50% deeper than the PF64. Meaning, there is almost certainly more square inches of media in the XG vs the PF from my observation.


Can't just go by "pleat count". At least measure the depth and width of the pleats and do an area measurement. Some filters that have a lot of pleats don't have very deep pleats, so the total area less than you'd think. But as you have eluded to, the full synthetic has way more media depth for filtering.

You can measure the pleats without cutting the media out of the filter, then use the formula below to calculate the total media area.

 

[goodtimes]

If they do maintenance for four years and you sell at five you don't have to anything, maybe one OC at the end, seems to me. Just drive it. Interesting to see what they report back with.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
... But as you have eluded to, the full synthetic has way more media depth for filtering.
...
We're in danger here of confusing people with two different meanings of the word "depth."
Is it
1. Thickness of the media material
or
2. The radial distance between the outside creases and the inside creases
or
whichever happens to be on the writer's mind?

#1 is larger for the XG, which requires the pleat count to be lower to avoid overcrowding (although the volume of media material may not be lower).

If #2 is larger, that also limits the feasible number of pleats.

 

[goodtimes]

The Ultra depth media, in the pressure drop zone, isn't uniform, the outer layer looks pretty coarse.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yes, there's a difference between the depth/thickness of the media (relating to the "depth filtering" performance) and the depth/length of the pleat V which correlates to the total surface area of the media. I was talking about the latter, and showing the formula to calculate surface area.

 

[Patman]

I must admit that after reading this thread it makes me second guess whether or not I should continue using the PF64 on my Corvette. But the problem is, I really don't have any safe alternative while under the warranty, since there are so few choices in filters with the proper 22psi bypass. If I were to run the longer Wix filter and had a warranty claim, they'd have good reason to deny it if they saw that oversized filter on there. So the only real safe choice warranty wise is to stick with the PF64. It's kind of a lose-lose situation

Or maybe I should just relax because this type of tear in the media might only happen to one out of every 10,000 filters, and it could probably happen to any brand just as easily.

 

[4WD]

ACDelco UPF64R Specialty Engine Oil Filter

What’s the story line on these ?

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
ACDelco UPF64R Specialty Engine Oil Filter

What’s the story line on these ?



It has a 35psi bypass, so I know I wouldn't be comfortable using it

 

[4WD]

Holy Toronto Patman… I’d have to think the internals were 10x better than what I saw in the filter I cut … but that might just be part of planned obsolescence ... Industry insiders have to know a certain number of filters fail … but if it’s one or two in the life cycle of a vehicle … it will make the minimum miles … and in my area head south for DT’s beautiful gate in the wall …

Well … the more we mill on this the more I’m sticking with Fram Ultra … have been watching oil pressure more … I don’t have a P&ID of the lube system … but those sensors can’t be too far from anything … I’m running 42 psi at startup and 38 psi hot and driving with little change in pressure … must be all this variable stuff doing that … filter is probably dumber to it all …
If GM really wants to make the case … make a better filter please … I’d pay the delta …

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: Patman
I must admit that after reading this thread it makes me second guess whether or not I should continue using the PF64 on my Corvette. But the problem is, I really don't have any safe alternative while under the warranty, since there are so few choices in filters with the proper 22psi bypass. If I were to run the longer Wix filter and had a warranty claim, they'd have good reason to deny it if they saw that oversized filter on there. So the only real safe choice warranty wise is to stick with the PF64. It's kind of a lose-lose situation

Or maybe I should just relax because this type of tear in the media might only happen to one out of every 10,000 filters, and it could probably happen to any brand just as easily.


I wouldn't run the PF64 in a Corvette. I have no doubt the media tear rate is higher than 1 in 10,000. Since Cadillac includes maintenance for 4 years my plan is to let the OLM do it's thing, drive in, get my "warranty approved oil change" with the PF64 and bulk D1G2 5w30, run a GDI intake cleaner and Gumout Regane through it, and swap it out after 1-2k miles with an Ultra and fresh oil.

This way there's no voiding my warranty and I reduce the risk of running a filter with a 10,000 micron rating at 50%

Why is the upf64r not an option for you? Isn't the 22psi a minimum spec? I was considering making a case to use this filter on dealer oil changes.... in which I case I may consider running it longer.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Holy Toronto Patman… I’d have to think the internals were 10x better than what I saw in the filter I cut … but that might just be part of planned obsolescence ... Industry insiders have to know a certain number of filters fail … but if it’s one or two in the life cycle of a vehicle … it will make the minimum miles … and in my area head south for DT’s beautiful gate in the wall …

Well … the more we mill on this the more I’m sticking with Fram Ultra … have been watching oil pressure more … I don’t have a P&ID of the lube system … but those sensors can’t be too far from anything … I’m running 42 psi at startup and 38 psi hot and driving with little change in pressure … must be all this variable stuff doing that … filter is probably dumber to it all …
If GM really wants to make the case … make a better filter please … I’d pay the delta …


The Fram Ultra is simply a perfectly made filter IMO. I just cut two more open which I'm going to post shortly. If the bypass spec was 22, everyone would be using it. The conditions must be few and far between for a bypass event even at 12psi... ?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Patman
I must admit that after reading this thread it makes me second guess whether or not I should continue using the PF64 on my Corvette. But the problem is, I really don't have any safe alternative while under the warranty, since there are so few choices in filters with the proper 22psi bypass.


Why not the Fram racing filter (HP18 for your Vette) which has a higher bypass valve setting (if that's your main concern), and it has pretty good filtering efficiency. It's constructed with metal end caps too.

GM can't void your factory warranty if you use a specified aftermarket oil filter (Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act).

 

[4WD]

I recall a good number of MC’s having low bypass numbers … wait, Pressure x Area = Force … yeah, probably don’t want to set the Puro derivatives too high, eh?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
I recall a good number of MC’s having low bypass numbers … wait, Pressure x Area = Force … yeah, probably don’t want to set the Puro derivatives too high, eh?


Purolators should probably consider setting their bypass valves to 1~2 PSI.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: 4WD
I recall a good number of MC’s having low bypass numbers … wait, Pressure x Area = Force … yeah, probably don’t want to set the Puro derivatives too high, eh?


Purolators should probably consider setting their bypass valves to 1~2 PSI.

LOL, that might solve the tearing... If it works they should let ACDelco in on it