AAA warns E15 gasoline could cause car damage
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Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Yeah, because they'd have to be retarded to suggest using E15 in cars that only say E10 in their manuals.
The problem is that the EPA says it's okay in most cars 2001 and later, and that's simply not the case.
Yeah, because they'd have to be retarded to suggest using E15 in cars that only say E10 in their manuals.
The problem is that the EPA says it's okay in most cars 2001 and later, and that's simply not the case.
If its simply not the case, where's your proof? Yeah, the EPA saying its okay is sort of jumping the gun...but the fact is E15 is an option, and so far no auto manufacturer really cares to validate that option, so they don't recommend it.
Show me one auto manufacturer that says E15 will destroy or damage their cars and why and you have a case. Until then you only have cautious thoughts that E15 could cause damage, so they currently don't recommend it.
But since the EPA doesn't pay the bills on these lawyers they've found E15 should be totally acceptable. Expect 2013+ cars to say E15 is totally fine.
Show me one auto manufacturer that says E15 will destroy or damage their cars and why and you have a case. Until then you only have cautious thoughts that E15 could cause damage, so they currently don't recommend it.
But since the EPA doesn't pay the bills on these lawyers they've found E15 should be totally acceptable. Expect 2013+ cars to say E15 is totally fine.
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Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Better fuel economy is possible in a car that has sufficient range in its ability to advance timing beyond knock, since ethanol does enhance octane.
Though ethanol increases octane, the logic also works backwards -- that a low, sub-87 octane gasoline can (and is) used for blending. The end result is still 87 octane, leaving the knock sensor a moot point in this discussion. Hence, we don't get better fuel economy with E10, and we'll get even less with E15. I've seen this in my checks years ago when we had a choice of E10 or pure gas.
What octane will E15 have?
Better fuel economy is possible in a car that has sufficient range in its ability to advance timing beyond knock, since ethanol does enhance octane.
Though ethanol increases octane, the logic also works backwards -- that a low, sub-87 octane gasoline can (and is) used for blending. The end result is still 87 octane, leaving the knock sensor a moot point in this discussion. Hence, we don't get better fuel economy with E10, and we'll get even less with E15. I've seen this in my checks years ago when we had a choice of E10 or pure gas.
What octane will E15 have?
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
As long as there is a choice I'll pass on the E15.
Agreed.
I'd pass on gasoline with anymore than 5% ethanol if I had the choice.
I certainly would like to have the option to buy 100% pure gasoline again!
Of course there are still tons of pre 2001 cars on the road in daily use because many people cannot afford anything else. What about THOSE models?
As long as there is a choice I'll pass on the E15.
Agreed.
I'd pass on gasoline with anymore than 5% ethanol if I had the choice.
I certainly would like to have the option to buy 100% pure gasoline again!
Of course there are still tons of pre 2001 cars on the road in daily use because many people cannot afford anything else. What about THOSE models?
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Why is there no 91 or 93 octane gas at that station? Many cars would also have mechanical problems and voided warranties if the manual specified having 91 or more octane.
Anyway, Ethanol in gasoline is mostly a scam.
Gas stations with nothing higher than 89 octane are not that unusual in the rural Midwest. I have seen a couple in rural areas that only had 87.
Why is there no 91 or 93 octane gas at that station? Many cars would also have mechanical problems and voided warranties if the manual specified having 91 or more octane.
Anyway, Ethanol in gasoline is mostly a scam.
Gas stations with nothing higher than 89 octane are not that unusual in the rural Midwest. I have seen a couple in rural areas that only had 87.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Gas stations with nothing higher than 89 octane are not that unusual in the rural Midwest.
Yep. The nearest gas station from my house has only 87 and 89, plus diesel. To get a 91 octane (for my 71 Cougar), I have to drive over 25 miles away.
I live in corn country, but I'll be the first to admit that adding ethanol to gas is a big waste of money, especially when the drought this year caused corn commodity prices to be at record highs.
Gas stations with nothing higher than 89 octane are not that unusual in the rural Midwest.
Yep. The nearest gas station from my house has only 87 and 89, plus diesel. To get a 91 octane (for my 71 Cougar), I have to drive over 25 miles away.
I live in corn country, but I'll be the first to admit that adding ethanol to gas is a big waste of money, especially when the drought this year caused corn commodity prices to be at record highs.
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
If its simply not the case, where's your proof?
Didn't you see the study posted here a few months ago? There were some minor problems in 1-2 cars of 10 that were tested IIRC.
If its simply not the case, where's your proof?
Didn't you see the study posted here a few months ago? There were some minor problems in 1-2 cars of 10 that were tested IIRC.
Most of today's vehicles are flex fuel and can run off E85,so 15% should be fine. I think it's just hype,just like E10 was supposed to meltdown engines.
Here premium is ethanol free so that's what I use in everything except generators and compressors.
Here premium is ethanol free so that's what I use in everything except generators and compressors.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
If its simply not the case, where's your proof?
Didn't you see the study posted here a few months ago? There were some minor problems in 1-2 cars of 10 that were tested IIRC.
I'll have to check that out. Minor problems in %5-%10 is very low though, far lower then people here seem to be trying to encourage, and I think that's totally reasonable.
But still, pump says Flex-Fuel even for E15.
Though honestly if you have a Flex Fuel vehicle I'd be using E85. Vehicles tuned for it run like they're on race gas, I love it.
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
If its simply not the case, where's your proof?
Didn't you see the study posted here a few months ago? There were some minor problems in 1-2 cars of 10 that were tested IIRC.
I'll have to check that out. Minor problems in %5-%10 is very low though, far lower then people here seem to be trying to encourage, and I think that's totally reasonable.
But still, pump says Flex-Fuel even for E15.
Though honestly if you have a Flex Fuel vehicle I'd be using E85. Vehicles tuned for it run like they're on race gas, I love it.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Most of today's vehicles are flex fuel and can run off E85,so 15% should be fine. I think it's just hype,just like E10 was supposed to meltdown engines.
Here premium is ethanol free so that's what I use in everything except generators and compressors.
Which makes and models are flex fuel compliant today?
Most of today's vehicles are flex fuel and can run off E85,so 15% should be fine. I think it's just hype,just like E10 was supposed to meltdown engines.
Here premium is ethanol free so that's what I use in everything except generators and compressors.
Which makes and models are flex fuel compliant today?
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Show me one auto manufacturer that says E15 will destroy or damage their cars and why and you have a case. Until then you only have cautious thoughts that E15 could cause damage, so they currently don't recommend it.
My 2012 Toyota Avalon says on the gas cap NO E15 as it will damage the engine and void the factory warranty. So you don't know what you are talking about.
Show me one auto manufacturer that says E15 will destroy or damage their cars and why and you have a case. Until then you only have cautious thoughts that E15 could cause damage, so they currently don't recommend it.
My 2012 Toyota Avalon says on the gas cap NO E15 as it will damage the engine and void the factory warranty. So you don't know what you are talking about.
If it has the EPA seal of approval it's most likely not changing. We shall have to use it and continue on. I have my doubts about it causing any problems except in engines much older than most of us own and drive daily.
Originally Posted By: Doog
My 2012 Toyota Avalon says on the gas cap NO E15 as it will damage the engine and void the factory warranty. So you don't know what you are talking about.
Its not a recommended fuel then. Prove it will damage the engine and you have a case. Until then they're just saying it could and they won't cover it.
My 2012 Toyota Avalon says on the gas cap NO E15 as it will damage the engine and void the factory warranty. So you don't know what you are talking about.
Its not a recommended fuel then. Prove it will damage the engine and you have a case. Until then they're just saying it could and they won't cover it.
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Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Originally Posted By: Doog
My 2012 Toyota Avalon says on the gas cap NO E15 as it will damage the engine and void the factory warranty. So you don't know what you are talking about.
Its not a recommended fuel then. Prove it will damage the engine and you have a case. Until then they're just saying it could and they won't cover it.
You prove it won't. Until then you don't know what you are talking about and are just saying it won't hurt anything. If the car mfg says don't run something there is a reason for it.
Also, don't forget that the problems from using E blended fuels are not something that are instantanious as a rule. They are issues caused by mid to long term use. You can probably run E15 for a while without harm but what about 6 months to a year down the road+? That is where the issues will crop up due to the corrosive nature of the ethanol.
At just a 5 cent savings p/gallon( using prices in the photo in this thread )over the E10 why would anyone run it if the car mfg says not to?
Originally Posted By: Doog
My 2012 Toyota Avalon says on the gas cap NO E15 as it will damage the engine and void the factory warranty. So you don't know what you are talking about.
Its not a recommended fuel then. Prove it will damage the engine and you have a case. Until then they're just saying it could and they won't cover it.
You prove it won't. Until then you don't know what you are talking about and are just saying it won't hurt anything. If the car mfg says don't run something there is a reason for it.
Also, don't forget that the problems from using E blended fuels are not something that are instantanious as a rule. They are issues caused by mid to long term use. You can probably run E15 for a while without harm but what about 6 months to a year down the road+? That is where the issues will crop up due to the corrosive nature of the ethanol.
At just a 5 cent savings p/gallon( using prices in the photo in this thread )over the E10 why would anyone run it if the car mfg says not to?
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
Most of today's vehicles are flex fuel and can run off E85,so 15% should be fine.
No they aren't. What???
If a car is truly FlexFuel capable( i.e. can run E85 )it will usually have a FlexFuel badge somewhere on it and it will have a different gas cap saying it can run E85. If a car isn't designated as FlexFuel capable by the car mfg it is not designed to run on nor should it run on E85.
Most of today's vehicles are flex fuel and can run off E85,so 15% should be fine.
No they aren't. What???
If a car is truly FlexFuel capable( i.e. can run E85 )it will usually have a FlexFuel badge somewhere on it and it will have a different gas cap saying it can run E85. If a car isn't designated as FlexFuel capable by the car mfg it is not designed to run on nor should it run on E85.
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Originally Posted By: Doog
My 2012 Toyota Avalon says on the gas cap NO E15 as it will damage the engine and void the factory warranty. So you don't know what you are talking about.
Its not a recommended fuel then. Prove it will damage the engine and you have a case. Until then they're just saying it could and they won't cover it.
Funny that in other threads you recommend nothing but OEM fluids and you go as far as call people "stupid" to believe that aftermarket has done their testing for all applications, and here you ask for proof for something that manufacturers recommend against.
When making claims as yours, the burden of proof is on YOU.
Originally Posted By: Doog
My 2012 Toyota Avalon says on the gas cap NO E15 as it will damage the engine and void the factory warranty. So you don't know what you are talking about.
Its not a recommended fuel then. Prove it will damage the engine and you have a case. Until then they're just saying it could and they won't cover it.
Funny that in other threads you recommend nothing but OEM fluids and you go as far as call people "stupid" to believe that aftermarket has done their testing for all applications, and here you ask for proof for something that manufacturers recommend against.
When making claims as yours, the burden of proof is on YOU.
I'd run it in the Cruze if they were out of premium and I was out of gas. Ethanol reduces knock, so that means more boost. More boost = more power!!! Well, up to a point where the engine is demanding more fuel than the injectors can flow.
I do think this still is a horrible idea, but the sky isn't falling like some folks are saying. And for not being a FFV, that's a sensor, larger injectors, and retune to run on E85. The fuel system likely won't know the difference on a current-year car. It adds about $300-400 to a vehicle's price, so it's no surprise that it's not common except on some larger trucks to get the very generous EPA credits for FFV's.
I do think this still is a horrible idea, but the sky isn't falling like some folks are saying. And for not being a FFV, that's a sensor, larger injectors, and retune to run on E85. The fuel system likely won't know the difference on a current-year car. It adds about $300-400 to a vehicle's price, so it's no surprise that it's not common except on some larger trucks to get the very generous EPA credits for FFV's.
My F150 flex fuel 5.4L loves E-85. While I've not tried E-15, I'm certain that no ill effects will result.
My older Jaguar X-Type 2.5L V6 manual does not like ethanol in the fuel and it's quite easy to tell when ethanol content is too high. Good old-fashioned high octane is what that car likes. VP Racing fuels produces a product called C-9, it's 96 octane, non oxygenated unleaded. The Jaguar LOVES that fuel. The throttle response, power and feel are much improved on C-9. So much so, that the premium price is worth it.
I can't imagine my Jaguar on E-15. I'd guess it would be buck and surge, check engine light time.
My older Jaguar X-Type 2.5L V6 manual does not like ethanol in the fuel and it's quite easy to tell when ethanol content is too high. Good old-fashioned high octane is what that car likes. VP Racing fuels produces a product called C-9, it's 96 octane, non oxygenated unleaded. The Jaguar LOVES that fuel. The throttle response, power and feel are much improved on C-9. So much so, that the premium price is worth it.
I can't imagine my Jaguar on E-15. I'd guess it would be buck and surge, check engine light time.
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