A Monograde Question

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B320i

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Out of nothing other than curiosity, I've been looking at the monograde offerings in Australia of late. One such example was Penrite Mono Truck 30, which is an API SG rated oil, but carries many other specifications. Are the specifications pasted below quite recent, and thus exceed the API SG - and if so, why is the oil only SG rated?

Specifications:
ACEA E1
Allison C-3
API CF
API CF-2
API SG
Caterpillar TO-2
Detroit 7SE-270
Mack EO-K/2
MB 227.0.
MB 228.0.
MIL-L-2104F
 
My first suspicion is that it is a matter of volatility rating at 150°C being too high for it to be an API SH or later specification. The next thought could be it does not have enough additives to qualify for it to be a later spec as well.
It very well could be for other reasons than I just typed down. I am interested in this as well.
 
Most mono grade engine oils target a specific audience, (like Garak here!) so a bunch of semi-obsolete licensing and approvals are meaningless.
I have looked at the Penrite mono grades and they are quire similar to offerings from the majors in North America.
The BITOG mono-grade fan boy club has about 3 members including myself.
 
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
Most mono grade engine oils target a specific audience, (like Garak here!) so a bunch of semi-obsolete licensing and approvals are meaningless.
I have looked at the Penrite mono grades and they are quire similar to offerings from the majors in North America.
The BITOG mono-grade fan boy club has about 3 members including myself.


I'd apply to join, but maybe I'm not sure enough to be the complete fan.

Quite like this stuff so far, but its TBN seems a bit low at 5.79. Its still to be found in 4L jugs on supermarket shelves, so there must be a market for it with Taiwanese punters.

OTOH you don't see the SA stuff that you can buy in the US, though maybe people would buy it if it was available.




If I could get the Delvac straight 40 that came with my last car here I'd be a bit more committed.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
This one has proved incredibly difficult for me to source...
http://www.anglomoil.com/wp-content/uploads/Cat-TO-4.pdf


What's it for?

Looks to be primarily a transmission fluid. I note the engine rating is given as "mis-application protection" which seems a little half-hearted/apologetic, and its CF, so technically perhaps shouldn't be used in a petrol engine.
 
Data sheets are evolving over the last few years...those type of companies a couple of years ago were pushing the SAE30 as "universal"...like the Universal tractor oils.

More recently, they have changed to the type of wording included there.
 
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
Most mono grade engine oils target a specific audience, (like Garak here!) so a bunch of semi-obsolete licensing and approvals are meaningless.
I have looked at the Penrite mono grades and they are quire similar to offerings from the majors in North America.
The BITOG mono-grade fan boy club has about 3 members including myself.


I've been thinking about giving SAE30 a whirl in my 92 Accord. May get below 32 2-3 days out of the year here.
 
Ducked; The TO-4s (train oil as in drive train) are "friction enhanced" that replaced mono-grade engine oils in Caterpillar final drives and transmissions.
Petro-Canada publishes them as CD & GL-3 as well. I use them all the time in shared motorcycle/engine oil and V8s with heavily loaded valve trains.
TO-4s are not cheap to buy especially the synthetic multi-grades.
Look up supertest www.lubricants.petro-canada.ca

They show P=1000 and Zn=1100, but VOAs show 20% higher. TBN is usually around 10

edit; asleep Delvac 1330 is in my daughter's 13 Matrix and son's 13 1500 5.3 SLT, both good for 14k km, what ever that is in miles. (x.62)
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
Ducked; The TO-4s (train oil as in drive train) are "friction enhanced" that replaced mono-grade engine oils in Caterpillar final drives and transmissions.
Petro-Canada publishes them as CD & GL-3 as well. I use them all the time in shared motorcycle/engine oil and V8s with heavily loaded valve trains.
TO-4s are not cheap to buy especially the synthetic multi-grades.
Look up supertest www.lubricants.petro-canada.ca

They show P=1000 and Zn=1100, but VOAs show 20% higher. TBN is usually around 10

edit; asleep Delvac 1330 is in my daughter's 13 Matrix and son's 13 1500 5.3 SLT, both good for 14k km, what ever that is in miles. (x.62)


Does "friction enhanced" mean "friction enhanced" or "friction reduced". The latter might be contra-indicated for m/c transmissions.

I bought the CPC straight 40 above for a m/c transmission (where it seemed OK) but ended up using it in the car engine (at about 50% with Delvac MX 15/40) as well.

I looked for GL-3 or 4 for the car transmission locally but didn't find any, though there is apparently a Redline stockist at the other end of the country.

Ended up buying this stuff in Japan, though I considered just using engine oil.

61jxvemQTDL._SY355_.jpg


Havn't actually changed it yet, since I can't remember where I put it, but I have to move house soon so it'll probably turn up then.
 
Ducked;
I don't know enough about manual transmissions to make an informed response to target your specific needs. However, contrary to popular opinion, modern GL-5s are yellow metal friendly, therefore can be used where brass/bronze/copper bushings are present. BP, Castrol here, might publish the copper strip pass results, 1-A being the best.
ASTM ... ?
Friction enhanced, in the case of TO-4s would be the opposite of a friction modified engine oil, and more like an automatic transmission fluid except in engine oil grades instead of ISO grades.
John Deere, Cat and others are very specific about wet clutch lock-up and fluid friction properties, anti-chatter braking and clutch pack life.
I like the idea of extra traction to help spin flat tappet lifters, and not so gaga about over the top ZDDP numbers as some other members might be.
 
I've looked at the local SAE 30 monogrades myself a few times. But in the end I never found them on sale, and it was always less money to walk out the door with a more modern PCMO.

I mean that Penrite SAE 30 Small Engine mineral oil (API SG / CD) is $25 for a 2.5L bottle, full price and rarely on sale. Yet right now at REPCO regular M1 5W30 is half price at $50 for a 5L bottle. Effectively the same price.

The two mineral SAE 30's I was looking at:
Penrite Mono Truck SAE 30 (API CF/ SG, ACEA E1)
KV40 = 84 cSt
KV100 = 10.8 cSt
TBN = 9.4
Zinc = 1220 ppm

Caltex Delo Silver SAE 30 (API CF / SJ)
KV40 = 90 cSt
KV100 = 11.5 cSt
TBN = 6.8
Zinc = 940 ppm


The Delo Silver is from the Australian spec sheet, on the local Caltex web page, last time I looked more than a year ago, has the most modern (API SJ) spec I can find. That ACEA E1 is long gone, it's only E4, E6, E7 and E9 now.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
BTW, I always have some of this in the shed...

http://penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/SMALL ENGINE SAE 30 JANUARY 2017.pdf

Perfect universal top-up oil IMO.


Yeah I was going to get some, but a 1 L bottle of Nulon 5W30 Euro PAO based full synthetic with VW504/507 cost me less than the 1 L of Penrite SAE 30. So now the low SAPS C3 oil has become my universal top-up. Again, just that sales price of a PCMO was better than the regular price of a SAE 30.

Maybe you have been lucky enough to find a SAE 30 on sale, but I haven't.
 
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
Most mono grade engine oils target a specific audience, (like Garak here!) so a bunch of semi-obsolete licensing and approvals are meaningless.

Yes, target me to send me running and screaming out of the room.
wink.gif


Generally speaking, the monogrades we see here often are something like what you listed or something with SN stuck on it and nothing else.
 
Lol.
True or false? I'm cherry pickin' someone else's statement: Under stress, meaning mixed and boundary, an engine oil is reduced to its BOV? (base oil viscosity)
I get out of that if true, is oil film provides primary protection and the AW/EP additives picks up where the oil leaves off.
Also if true, and I'm out of my comfort zone here.. a mono-grade SAE 30 will have a thicker MOFT than a VII containing xW30.
 
Does anyone have a VOa of Pennzoil, QS, or Supertech SAE30? That's probably all I'll be able to find at my local Walmart in the US. Only other option I have is Mobil 410NC SAE40 on our boats.
 
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