'98 Accord 2.3L Kreen Test

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: Finz
Mechanic replaced timing belt Sept '12 with 178,601 miles. Also adjusted valves

This is where you may need to go back too. Some aluminum heads when warm can increase valve clearance not decrease it like iron heads especially engines that use sodium filled valve stems.
Honda having learned a lot from the motorcycle engine may use these, i don't know for sure but i strongly suspect it.

Some aluminum head engines can make scary albeit relatively harmless knocking noises from the top of the engine from excessive valve clearance, be it from adjustment, worn lobes, slippers or rollers and the VTEC system.
knocking from the VTEC unit is also possible and is another long winded post in itself.
Seeing as he adjusted them recently i suspect this is more than worn out or damaged parts.

Knocking becoming more pronounce when warmed up is more likely from the top of the engine. Rods and mains tend to just get louder and piston pins exhibit a sharp double rap.
There are a few other sources of knocking but they tend to remain constant hot or cold, these would include flywheels, tensioner, accessory pulleys, etc. Exhaust manifold leaks have also been know to produce noises that resemble ticking or knocking.

I would at least check the clearances in the process of elimination. If they spec cold then make darn sure its overnight cold and hot work as fast as possible once the engine is shut down, make sure the lobe is really on its heel (aka the base circle), if its off just a few degrees it can cause an incorrect (tighter) measurement.
Adjusting the valves on a VTEC takes patience and it can be difficult to get good feel on the feeler gauges, your engine is easy enough to check and adjust for a DIY job.
 
Very helpful Trav - thank you

You said: Seeing as he adjusted them recently i suspect this is more than worn out or damaged parts

I just need to clarify - are you saying that since they were recently adjusted, you suspect the damage is more severe?

I checked/adjusted the valves Wednesday after sitting all Tuesday night on the driveway (car is to be adjusted cold). Double-Checked them again this morning. IN: .254 (spec'd for .26) and OUT: .305 (spec'd for .30)

Cylinder # 3 gave me a hard time during both attempts especially on the exhaust side. I'll check them again tomorrow after driving some today and see how they feel.

Had the car running a few minutes ago and was just staring - trying to pinpoint to location. I'm going to say that it is definitely a top noise and emanating between the VTE of the VTEC stamped on the valve cover. Might not mean much to you but that's in the cylinder #2 and #3 neighborhood.

My son came out and I asked him where HE thought the noise was originating - he, too, waved his finger across the VTE

Pretty scientific huh? We disagreed, however, on whether the noise was stronger at the intake or exhaust

Although the noise started before I played with the valves, I'm having a hard time "seeing" when the lobe and am instead using the fly wheel to guide me as there is an arrow scored onto it (Pointed toward the sky is TDC). Turn it 90 for #2, another 90 for #4 and last 90 for #3

Three more quick comments:

1. There is no sharp double rap taking place. Just a steady knock that could be growing louder

2. Coincidentally, I noticed a rust-thru on the upper exhaust pipe (near the hanger - before the cat) last weekend. The upper pipe is rusted thru but there is another pipe inside - I believe a resonator (do they still use that term?) so it's not a complete rust-tru to the other end

3. As I was watching the car a few minutes ago, played with the throttle and noticed a muffled/warble/almost-puffy like sound from beneath the manifold cover.

You're saying that perhaps #2 & #3 might produce a knocking noise? If so close to the CAT (or so far from manifold) can we rule out #2 or not necessarily...?

Thank you again
 
I'm not thinking damage rather adjusted on the loose side. there is probably a oil screen for the vtec on the head, you may want to replace it they get partially plugged pretty easily if the engine has any deposits, it doesn't very take much.

Make sure you remove the timing belt cover to insure the "up" is at the top on the cam sprocket to do number 1, rotate the crank 90 degrees and do the next one repeat.
IIRC the adjustment order is 1 3 4 2 but check the book.

Set the valves to the middle of the scale e.g. 0.28 to 0.32 set it 0.30, the feeler gauge should feel like its magnetized, a slight drag. Do not use go/no go gauges.
One trick i use is spray a little brake cleaner on the valve tip and cam heel to remove the oil coating so i can get a better "feel". When i am satisfied with the adjustment i oil the tip and lobe with engine oil from a pump oil can.

Edit: When finished use a hammer handle, stethoscope or piece of hose to listen to the top end, you may have an exhaust leak that is making noise also.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Trav.... I'll check the valves agin tomorrow. I think I was concentrating on my typing skills vs what was being typed but wouldn't that be a hoot if I ran the wrong firing order

I know this is coming out of left field but I was looking through HondaTech and mention was made of bad gasoline contributing to what was construed as piston slap

Although I'm losing track of time, the tick-turned-knock was also around the time I added some MMO to the fuel tank. I filled the tank immediately after adding and it took less than. 4 gals in the 17 gal tank. Only afterwards did I recall that I had added 5 oz of Lucas.

This was discussed previously but with regard to the red tint on the spark plugs

Is there any chance that this combo could have such an effect?

A long shot but as much as I like to play with my tools, I'm getting tired and looking/hoping for THE easy fix

Note: this is not to be construed as an MMO bash ... Nor a Lucas bash for that matter...
 
No way MMO, Lucas, Kreen or anything else can cause piston slap. Piston slap is caused by the rocking of the piston skirt in the bore, its common on short skirted pistons and usually harmless.
 
Hey GHT.
It wasn't knocking before the kreen run correct?
If so what that tells me is that the kreen has taken the anti wear layers off the moving parts and they a a tad loose now.
Use M1 0w-40 or the Belgian castrol.
And forget about it.
 
The pipes from the manifold to the catalytic converter are double-walled. This is for insulating, both to keep the gas hot and to prevent grass fires.

That sound is precisely where and identical to most people's noise from Honda engines. It is exactly where mine is coming from as well.

Originally Posted By: Finz
Very helpful Trav - thank you

You said: Seeing as he adjusted them recently i suspect this is more than worn out or damaged parts

I just need to clarify - are you saying that since they were recently adjusted, you suspect the damage is more severe?

I checked/adjusted the valves Wednesday after sitting all Tuesday night on the driveway (car is to be adjusted cold). Double-Checked them again this morning. IN: .254 (spec'd for .26) and OUT: .305 (spec'd for .30)

Cylinder # 3 gave me a hard time during both attempts especially on the exhaust side. I'll check them again tomorrow after driving some today and see how they feel.

Had the car running a few minutes ago and was just staring - trying to pinpoint to location. I'm going to say that it is definitely a top noise and emanating between the VTE of the VTEC stamped on the valve cover. Might not mean much to you but that's in the cylinder #2 and #3 neighborhood.

My son came out and I asked him where HE thought the noise was originating - he, too, waved his finger across the VTE

Pretty scientific huh? We disagreed, however, on whether the noise was stronger at the intake or exhaust

Although the noise started before I played with the valves, I'm having a hard time "seeing" when the lobe and am instead using the fly wheel to guide me as there is an arrow scored onto it (Pointed toward the sky is TDC). Turn it 90 for #2, another 90 for #4 and last 90 for #3

Three more quick comments:

1. There is no sharp double rap taking place. Just a steady knock that could be growing louder

2. Coincidentally, I noticed a rust-thru on the upper exhaust pipe (near the hanger - before the cat) last weekend. The upper pipe is rusted thru but there is another pipe inside - I believe a resonator (do they still use that term?) so it's not a complete rust-tru to the other end

3. As I was watching the car a few minutes ago, played with the throttle and noticed a muffled/warble/almost-puffy like sound from beneath the manifold cover.

You're saying that perhaps #2 & #3 might produce a knocking noise? If so close to the CAT (or so far from manifold) can we rule out #2 or not necessarily...?

Thank you again
 
Not correct Chevy...

The tick-turned-knock started shortly upon replacing the 5W-30 Mobil 1 with 10W-40 Penzoil HM. The Kreen piston soak was later
 
I triple-checked the valve lash this morning and further adjusted #3. Made a a big difference in the noise and now I'm at a low knock to a heavier tick - leaning toward the heavier tick

Again, my son and I were listening, and he feels that the exhaust side of #2 is where the noise emanates and I'm leaning more toward upper exhaust. But as you move from the front of the car to either side, you second guess yourself

Took a pipe and placed it on the valve cover and the manifold cover trying to pinpoint it even further to no avail

I'll let the car sit overnight and take another look at the valve lash for #2 in the morning.

Big improvement from yesterday, however - thank you all for the input
 
Originally Posted By: Finz
Not correct Chevy...

The tick-turned-knock started shortly upon replacing the 5W-30 Mobil 1 with 10W-40 Penzoil HM. The Kreen piston soak was later


Interesting.
Alright. Thanks for setting me straight. I'd still go the euro oil route. You Americans have it made with wm 24 buck jugs. I'd run the 0w-40 in everything at that price even if it is a bit to thick at operating temp.
 
How much are you paying? Just about all Mobil 1 synthetics $22.xx for 5 qt jug at walmart here in NJ anyway
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top