'98 Accord 2.3L Kreen Test

[Finz]

I'm starting this new thread separately from what I started yesterday evening as I jumped in on demarpaint's project... So some of you may have already seen some of this movie:

Rec'd my package of Kreen yesterday and am especially anxious to throw this in my daughter's '98 accord

Quick detail on the 4-cylinder 2.3L Accord:

* Purchased '09 with 150,000 on the odometer - not 100% certain of prior maintenance

* Mechanic replaced timing belt Sept '12 with 178,601 miles. Also adjusted valves

* Currently 187,650 miles

* Mostly driven on easy short-hops with occasional 140 mile highway trips - maybe twice monthly

* Car had a ticking at start-up (like a sewing machine) that would never go away - it DID lessen to a degree when warmed up. Not exactly sure when this started - might have always been there but this car was at college

* Car has had a regular OCI with filter (Fram Tough Guard) every 5,000 miles using M1 5W-30

* Replaced radiator at 175k miles - While at school, my daughter said it was leaking... not sure how bad the overheating ever got but, as of today, no cooling troubles at all.

* Car has been losing a qt of oil every 1,000 miles for about a year - since about 175k miles.. no leaks anywhere and no smoke out of the exhaust. Oil just goes away.

* Last oil change, 187,300, new filter (Fram Tough Guard) and Penzoil HM 10W-40.. I jumped to 10W-40 in an effort to negate the oil loss

* The ticking has pretty much gone away and been replaced with a more pronounced knocking. No knock at start-up but after a minute or 3, gets somewhat louder. Doesn't seem to diminish with a warmer engine and never gets really loud - but it's there

* My feeling is that the knocking might be a result of the heavier 10W-40 oil...

* 50 miles ago, I added 1 qt of MMO. The MMO diluted the oil somewhat but the knocking is still there and it's driving me nuts

Now for the new stuff:

I popped the valve cover off and dropped an oz of Kreen into each spark plug well - it's out there now with a cloth covering the head. Took a 19mm open end and have been turning the power steering pulley every once if a while to shake things up a bit. I'd like to leave it soaking overnight

Here are a few pics of what the car looks like with the cover off:

My plan going forward starting today

1. Let the Kreens continue soak - several more hours if not overnight then drive a few miles - very few around town to purge the Kreen. Is this a wasted step?

2. Drain the 10W-40 Penzoil HM and replace with spec'd Penzoil 5W-30 HM and either a Fram Tough Guard or Purolator One filter... Any suggestions?

3. Run the fresh oil for 50 or 100 miles to get the juices flowing

4. At this point, odometer reading will be around 187,700 and I'll add the remaining Kreens (roughly 28 oz) to the 4.5 qt sump

#4 is where I get a little nervous. I honestly expected to find more gunk under the valve cover and, although I'm excited to do this, I don't want to clean the car to death - kill it with kindness as my father used to say.

I recall dermapaint lessening the dosage during his Kreen test and am thinking I should consider the same approach?

On the one hand, a full dose could give me a mirror finish (kidding). But it would provide for a serious cleaning. On the other hand, a partial dose would allow me to save half a bottle and give it another run through

I'm on the fence here

Now - let's hear what you experienced folks have to say/offer...?

 

[Phishin]

My advice.

Kreen is pretty volatile. It will flash off fairly quickly.

So....

1.) Add Kreen to COLD engine.
2.) Don't beat the snot out if it while you drive it around.
3.) Use regular oil for the car. 5w30 sounds right. No need for thicker oil. Kreen will be gone in a few hundred miles.

So, since the car has a 4.5 quart sump....pour in 4.25 quarts of oil. Add a pint or quart of Kreen once engine is cold.

Drive it around. Check oil level often. Add when needed. LOL!!

People have different theories....adding Kreen at the end of an OCI and running the mix for 500-1000 miles. Other say leave it in there for 3k mile OCI with dino. I kinda like the second choice.

If you have 28 ounces of Kreen....I might add 18oz for the first run to clean her up. And then after you change the oil, add the other 10 ounces as a "rinse".

 

[Donald]

Have you done a compression test? Valve train area looks pretty clean. In what part of the engine are you looking for Kreen to clean things up and reduce oil consumption? Have you checked for oil leaks? Fresh newspaper under the engine area overnight?

 

[demarpaint]

Why not just follow their directions and see how that works?

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Finz
#4 is where I get a little nervous. I honestly expected to find more gunk under the valve cover and, although I'm excited to do this, I don't want to clean the car to death - kill it with kindness as my father used to say.


Looking at the photo of the engine without its cylinder head cover, I'm left wondering what you want to accomplish with the Kreen. The engine has almost 200,000 miles on it and, frankly, looks as clean as many with fewer than half the miles.

If it were me, I'd change the oil as you plan (using a high mileage 5W-30 grade), sell the Kreen, and enjoy the car.

 

[Finz]

LMAO.. very good. I know I'm being anal about this but I love a good experiment and chance to use some tools

I just heard such great things about this stuff and the lingering question about its ability to remove (or not) varnish, I figured, why not?

I'm surprised as well at how clean it is in there - chalk up another one for Mobil 1...?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Finz
#4 is where I get a little nervous. I honestly expected to find more gunk under the valve cover and, although I'm excited to do this, I don't want to clean the car to death - kill it with kindness as my father used to say.


Looking at the photo of the engine without its cylinder head cover, I'm left wondering what you want to accomplish with the Kreen. The engine has almost 200,000 miles on it and, frankly, looks as clean as many with fewer than half the miles.

If it were me, I'd change the oil as you plan (using a high mileage 5W-30 grade), sell the Kreen, and enjoy the car.



Agreed! After having a look at the pics, if it was my car I'd hand clean the inside of the cover, put it back together and drive it. But he wants to experiment with it..........

 

[Finz]

Donald - yes. Performed a compression test a month or 2 ago... I didn't do a wet test as the numbers from the dry test were stellar

Not a drop of oil leaks or drips out this car - never has.

I think it's pretty clean already - very clean in fact.

But I would LOVE to see what Kreens can do as I'm sure there's a little dust bunny or 2 rolling around in there somewhere

 

[Finz]

So majority thinking is leave well enough alone? Clean the cover and call it a day?

...what a bummer

 

[MONKEYMAN]

It would be interesting to see if the Kreen helps the noise.

My last engine had Bilstien Flush, LC20, Auto-RX, MMO, and Transmission fluid besides regular OCI's and top up oil. It is your turn to experiment with Kreen.

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: Finz
So majority thinking is leave well enough alone? Clean the cover and call it a day?

...what a bummer


I know I would.
I've had cars that look worse under the valve cover and they've run great so I just left it be.

 

[Finz]

I'm thinking/hoping the 5W-30 will address that knocking

Forgot add though that when I yanked a qt of the 10W-40 out to make room for the MMO, after only so few miles, that stuff was pretty dark.

I know oil color is the be all and end all, but...

I never was a fan of those oil additives (MMO notwithstanding) but the Kreen talk just got me to thinking - that's why i was considering the half dose, too

I'm leaning toward the "don't touch it" side of the fence but I'm a stubborn SOB and just don't know how long I can stare at that can of Kreens before temptation get s the better of me

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I don't think 10W40 would hurt it too much other than confusing VTEC a bit.

 

[Finz]

Miller - I don't understand... the VTEC? Isn't that to do with timing or something?

 

[antiqueshell]

GreatHondaTricks

Have you sold the Taurus yet?

 

[SatinSilver]

What about the tranny? Have you done any drain/fills on it? Pcv valve, cabin filter is a bugger to change.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Why not just follow their directions and see how that works?


Interesting idea. You might think a manufacturer might know the proper way to administer their product,considering they may have tested it at some point prior to getting it to market.
I may try that following instructions thing. Might help with the spare parts I always seem to end up with

 

[Finz]

Satinsilver... Yes.

Several tranny fluid changes in the last 30k miles. I think 4...? In fact, just changed it out this Saturday again while replacing one of the axels.... Now THAT was a bugger (Passenger side). Next month - driver's side. Should be a lot easier as there is better access from underneath when prying it out

Just replaced the PCV this weekend as well. I change it often. They are so cheap and can cause so many issues it just makes sense to me. I read not too long ago on here that its best to use OEM but I never have with any of my cars. No problems.. Yet. The OEMs a considerably more expensive

Cabin filter: what a PITA. I think I've done that three times of the years and its hard every single time! Find they are MUCH cheaper at Amazon... Half the price of Walmart - almost to the penny

Just adjusted the valves since I had the cover off, too. Never did that before. Wasn't a bad job although my back is killing me with all that bending over and such. A couple needed adjustment but it had been done a year ago when timing belt was changed so I was surprised that they needed anything adjustment at all. Is there any time frame or mileage interval that I should watch for?

Wouldn't it be nice if THAT was why I had that incessant ticking...!??

I think I'll let the Kreens continue soaking over night since its getting late anyway. Maybe another shot before I pack up my tools and then call it quits.

 

[Finz]

LOL... what a concept...!

I know you're just having fun (at my expense, no less

) but the only reason I considered the half-treatment approach was because it really doesn't need of a cleaning, if any, at all

And, besides, I seem to recall a certain someone who was doing their own MY KREEN TEST that seemed to begrudge the directions himself - winged it, if you will.

Now who was that? Hmmmm...

Pot, I would like to introduce you to Kettle

 

[fdcg27]

I can guarantee that 10W-40 won't cause any problems with VTEC.
I've run both 10W-40 and M1 15W-50 in our '99 Accord, which is identical, and there were no problems at all.
Now, the "knocking" the OP mentions that occurs as the oil warms after engine start concerns me. I can only think of a couple of causes of real knocking noises and neither are anything nice.
WRT Kreen, why?
This engine looks really clean, especially for the miles.
It needs cleaning like I need a second head.
Incidentally, VTEC in this application is a simple and reliable cam shift valve timing change.
I've never heard of VTEC problems in these engines.