9 years behind the times.

[JMJNet]

I cannot imagine that these rich football player to think that they can solve problem with kneeling during the Star Spangled Banner.

Whatever their causes may be, they should donate their earnings to help kids in the inner city to have more productive activities like playing any type of sports or singing or dancing to occupy their time so they don't get involved in bad activities like drug dealing, rioting, etc.

They need to put their money instead of just "kneeling".
Walk the talk instead of kneeling like they are a loser.
Pay forward and be productive.

I guess working towards a solutions is too easy and not making them famous!!!

 

[Andrew1972]

So many grown adults get their panties in a knot I am amazed.

I cannot believe how masterful someone can be in the art of distraction.

 

[Bud]

Originally Posted By: JMJNet
I cannot imagine that these rich football player to think that they can solve problem with kneeling during the Star Spangled Banner.

Whatever their causes may be, they should donate their earnings to help kids in the inner city to have more productive activities like playing any type of sports or singing or dancing to occupy their time so they don't get involved in bad activities like drug dealing, rioting, etc.

They need to put their money instead of just "kneeling".
Walk the talk instead of kneeling like they are a loser.
Pay forward and be productive.

I guess working towards a solutions is too easy and not making them famous!!!



Yes, but they would not get the camera and media coverage they crave.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
It is sad that Americans are getting so partisan over this. Kneeling is also a respectful gesture, and should be allowed as well.
How about lying face down in the mud?

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think kneeling represents alot of different things now since POTUS got his itchy thumbs going. Initially it was a protest expressing that America wasn't really working for blacks in many ways. Now its also a protest against POTUS's divisive politics.
I'd think most veterans use the flag as a symbol of why they served, but its the freedoms that America is supposed to represent is what's really important.
Getting fired or jailed for not respecting a flag is nazi germany type of behavior, and not worth respecting if that's what oppression of freedom that flag represents.
Do anything you want in Canada, I have not the slightest interest in what you suggest for the US.

 

[Dwight_Frye]

Here is a suggestion for people like Kapernick and his colleagues, along with a myriad of actors, actresses and musical performers:
How about you rent a convention hall with your own money and announce that you are holding a press conference where you will espouse all of your political views. See who shows up besides the sycophants on the news teams.
What those people fail to comprehend is (A) that very, very few people care what they think, and (B) sports events, the Oscars, Emmys, Grammys and other awards shows are inappropriate venues for them to open their pie holes. Just because they have a microphone and captive audience doesn't mean that they should claim "First Amendment Rights" and subject people to their rhetoric. Their sense of self importance is absolutely stunning and the team owners need to muzzle them and so should the promoters of the various awards shows or face financial backlash.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: Nick1994

Such a lame, me-too 'insult'. Think that really bothers anyone?


But it was spot on. This entire controversy is absurd, this is the United States of America, we have the freedom to kneel during the National Anthem if we chose to - that is what makes our country special. Instead of addressing the concerns that prompted this peaceful protest, we are vilifying the people for simply asserting their rights.
The right to be spoiled brats in public. When their behavior hits their bottom line, they'll change their tune pronto.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think kneeling represents alot of different things now since POTUS got his itchy thumbs going. Initially it was a protest expressing that America wasn't really working for blacks in many ways. Now its also a protest against POTUS's divisive politics.
I'd think most veterans use the flag as a symbol of why they served, but its the freedoms that America is supposed to represent is what's really important.
Getting fired or jailed for not respecting a flag is nazi germany type of behavior, and not worth respecting if that's what oppression of freedom that flag represents.


Don't give me that bit about America not working for Minorities. I guess that's why we have an undocumented immigration overload problem-- because it's so well known everywhere that you don't stand a chance for a better life in America?

If you're a minority, and you do things right, work hard in school and on your job, you WILL get ahead and seize the American dream same as anyone. The system works, if you apply yourself and don't make excuses. You want to hang in the 'hood and do mishchief and Rage Against the Machine then you may not seize the Dream as certainly as someone who keeps themselves on the Straight and Narrow and works hard in school and in their job.

 

[Anduril]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Because the law up to that point did NOT allow veterans to salute. The prior law (regulation, actually) was:

1. Only uniformed members of the military could render the salute.
2. Military members not in uniform stand at attention.

Veterans were considered civilians, and the respectful gesture was hand over the heart.

If a veteran was saluting, then, while it may have been intended to be respectful, it was incorrect.

If this was ever challenged, I guarantee you it wouldn't stand up to the first amendment. You know, the one that also allows you to burn a flag in protest.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: Anduril
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Because the law up to that point did NOT allow veterans to salute. The prior law (regulation, actually) was:

1. Only uniformed members of the military could render the salute.
2. Military members not in uniform stand at attention.

Veterans were considered civilians, and the respectful gesture was hand over the heart.

If a veteran was saluting, then, while it may have been intended to be respectful, it was incorrect.

If this was ever challenged, I guarantee you it wouldn't stand up to the first amendment. You know, the one that also allows you to burn a flag in protest.


Oh yeah, you mean the same 1st Amendment that the Left in places like UC Berkley is trying to quash Lock Stock and Barrel by committing violence against any group that attempts to exercise Free Speech in a form they disagree with (and the university sits on it's hands and does nothing)? Or like the Antifa thugs who do the same at assemblies of folks expressing their 1st amendment rights in a way that is not in agreement with antifa's stances? Yeah, you mean that 1st amendment?

 

[MNgopher]

If one actually reads the flag and anthem codes, take note of the use of the word "should". Not will, not must, not has to... To be specific:

§301. National anthem
(a) Designation.—The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b) Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
(1) when the flag is displayed—
(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed



Just another day of distraction politics... And the american public - both sides, fall for it hook line and sinker. I guess if the idea is to divide people...

 

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Don't give me that bit about America not working for Minorities. I guess that's why we have an undocumented immigration overload problem-- because it's so well known everywhere that you don't stand a chance for a better life in America?

If you're a minority, and you do things right, work hard in school and on your job, you WILL get ahead and seize the American dream same as anyone. The system works, if you apply yourself and don't make excuses. You want to hang in the 'hood and do mishchief and Rage Against the Machine then you may not seize the Dream as certainly as someone who keeps themselves on the Straight and Narrow and works hard in school and in their job.


Man, you just don't get it, and you are so delusional, that you think you do.

The protests are revolving around the fact that as a Person of Color (not just Black people), when you have an interaction with a police officer, your chances of winding up in the morgue are much, much higher than a white person in the EXACT same circumstances.

Yes, if you are a POC, and you NEVER have an interaction with a police officer in your life, the American Dream is very much attainable.
But the problem is, when a POC has an interaction with an officer, there is a much higher chance of the POC having a really bad day, sometimes through no fault of their own.

This fact, and only this fact, is what the protests started off about.
People have twisted things so much to meet their own personal agendas, or to belittle other citizens feelings on the matter.

Mostly, the people who are so offended at the fact that people are protesting, are upset that they are having to witness it themselves.
They don't care if the people are right that there are bad things happening, they just want these protesters to shut up about it.
See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No evil.
That's their mantra in life, and if you force them to See it, they explode.

By the way, I love Rage Against the Machine.
I got to see Prophets of Rage last year at Red Rocks.
Absolutely fantastic concert.
You probably don't care, but I wanted to share that.

BC.

 

[ArcticDriver]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Kira
"Let me guess...zero time in uniform?" The ultimate hall pass for judging other people's patriotism.


No.

Not patriotism.

Understanding. That's what time in uniform would've imparted. To you, too, had you served.

Kneeling is most certainly not respectful. It is a deliberate, considered, refusal to be respectful. When appropriate, a ship, or soldier, will render honors. One renders honors to the flag, via a salute, ships render honors to other ships, via manning the rails, to admirals, or kings, or presidents, via a firing of a gun salute. Rendering honors is formal, deliberate, and meaningful IF you're aware of the traditions. That's why it's done for veterans' funerals (21 gun salute).

The traditions go back hundreds of years, but saluting, standing at attention, or hand over the heart, are how an individual renders honors to the flag. A sign of respect.

Refusing to render honors is a lot like refusing to shake an extended hand. A deliberately rude gesture intended to disrespect the occasion.

A snub.

So, yeah, the players are being deliberately disrespectful to the flag. And they know it.

Period.

Let me make it even more simple: if kneeling were respectful, then Kaepernick wouldn't have chosen to kneel as his form of protest.


This needed to be said and it could not have been said better.

Well done.

 

[Anduril]

Originally Posted By: Astro14

No.

Not patriotism.

Understanding. That's what time in uniform would've imparted. To you, too, had you served.

Kneeling is most certainly not respectful. It is a deliberate, considered, refusal to be respectful. When appropriate, a ship, or soldier, will render honors. One renders honors to the flag, via a salute, ships render honors to other ships, via manning the rails, to admirals, or kings, or presidents, via a firing of a gun salute. Rendering honors is formal, deliberate, and meaningful IF you're aware of the traditions. That's why it's done for veterans' funerals (21 gun salute).

The traditions go back hundreds of years, but saluting, standing at attention, or hand over the heart, are how an individual renders honors to the flag. A sign of respect.

Refusing to render honors is a lot like refusing to shake an extended hand. A deliberately rude gesture intended to disrespect the occasion.

A snub.

So, yeah, the players are being deliberately disrespectful to the flag. And they know it.

Period.

Let me make it even more simple: if kneeling were respectful, then Kaepernick wouldn't have chosen to kneel as his form of protest.

Disrespect, like how our country was literally founded by people who disrespected their government so much they refused to pay their taxes and started shooting people? Yet now they're the patriots and the protestors today are disrespectful. Got it.

Sometimes it pays to remember our roots. They're entitled to their opinion, you're entitled to yours, and it'll be settled on election day.

 

[eljefino]

It's respectful of ones teammates and workmates (across teams) to stand up for them when bullied.

This spectacle was of a way smaller proportion (one guy) before an adult in a leadership role taunted these players. That guy, btw, tried to sue his way into the NFL in the 1980s and have his USFL NJ Generals team promoted into a more valuable NFL franchise.

IMO these players, if they were to disrespect someone, are doing it towards one man, who has chosen himself to be in the limelight... and rarely tolerates its disappearance.

Besides as one citizen of millions, I'm not feeling the diss my way.

 

[ArcticDriver]

Originally Posted By: Anduril
They're entitled to their opinion, you're entitled to yours, and it'll be settled on election day.


Its easy to lose track of time in this busy world so a friendly remjnder to all--the election was November of 2016.

This is 2017.

 

[Dallas69]

It is every Americans right to protest,but not at work.
These players are on the job and are the face of the company.
If they want to protest on their own time fine.
But then they wouldn't get the attention.
They are all replaceable parts.
Just play the game.

 

[ArcticDriver]

L
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Don't give me that bit about America not working for Minorities. I guess that's why we have an undocumented immigration overload problem-- because it's so well known everywhere that you don't stand a chance for a better life in America?

If you're a minority, and you do things right, work hard in school and on your job, you WILL get ahead and seize the American dream same as anyone. The system works, if you apply yourself and don't make excuses. You want to hang in the 'hood and do mishchief and Rage Against the Machine then you may not seize the Dream as certainly as someone who keeps themselves on the Straight and Narrow and works hard in school and in their job.


Man, you just don't get it, and you are so delusional, that you think you do.

The protests are revolving around the fact that as a Person of Color (not just Black people), when you have an interaction with a police officer, your chances of winding up in the morgue are much, much higher than a white person in the EXACT same circumstances.

Yes, if you are a POC, and you NEVER have an interaction with a police officer in your life, the American Dream is very much attainable.
But the problem is, when a POC has an interaction with an officer, there is a much higher chance of the POC having a really bad day, sometimes through no fault of their own.

This fact, and only this fact, is what the protests started off about.
People have twisted things so much to meet their own personal agendas, or to belittle other citizens feelings on the matter.

Mostly, the people who are so offended at the fact that people are protesting, are upset that they are having to witness it themselves.
They don't care if the people are right that there are bad things happening, they just want these protesters to shut up about it.
See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No evil.
That's their mantra in life, and if you force them to See it, they explode.

By the way, I love Rage Against the Machine.
I got to see Prophets of Rage last year at Red Rocks.
Absolutely fantastic concert.
You probably don't care, but I wanted to share that.

BC.


You automatically lose the argument when you make personal attacks and name-calling on fellow forum members simply because they hold a different opinion than yourself.

Please try to gain control of your emotions or this thread will soon disappear.

 

[hemitruck]

Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
It is sad that Americans are getting so partisan over this. Kneeling is also a respectful gesture, and should be allowed as well.
.


BULL

 

[hemitruck]

Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
L
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Don't give me that bit about America not working for Minorities. I guess that's why we have an undocumented immigration overload problem-- because it's so well known everywhere that you don't stand a chance for a better life in America?

If you're a minority, and you do things right, work hard in school and on your job, you WILL get ahead and seize the American dream same as anyone. The system works, if you apply yourself and don't make excuses. You want to hang in the 'hood and do mishchief and Rage Against the Machine then you may not seize the Dream as certainly as someone who keeps themselves on the Straight and Narrow and works hard in school and in their job.


Man, you just don't get it, and you are so delusional, that you think you do.

The protests are revolving around the fact that as a Person of Color (not just Black people), when you have an interaction with a police officer, your chances of winding up in the morgue are much, much higher than a white person in the EXACT same circumstances.

Yes, if you are a POC, and you NEVER have an interaction with a police officer in your life, the American Dream is very much attainable.
But the problem is, when a POC has an interaction with an officer, there is a much higher chance of the POC having a really bad day, sometimes through no fault of their own.

This fact, and only this fact, is what the protests started off about.
People have twisted things so much to meet their own personal agendas, or to belittle other citizens feelings on the matter.

Mostly, the people who are so offended at the fact that people are protesting, are upset that they are having to witness it themselves.
They don't care if the people are right that there are bad things happening, they just want these protesters to shut up about it.
See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No evil.
That's their mantra in life, and if you force them to See it, they explode.

By the way, I love Rage Against the Machine.
I got to see Prophets of Rage last year at Red Rocks.
Absolutely fantastic concert.
You probably don't care, but I wanted to share that.

BC.


You automatically lose the argument when you make personal attacks and name-calling on fellow forum members simply because they hold a different opinion than yourself.

Please try to gain control of your emotions or this thread will soon disappear.
.

It's not like we had a black POTUS or anything. Our poor have things the poor in some other countries can only dream of.