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Aye. I mean I know it’s the physical size but yeah.
5.8 Windsor
- Thread starter Shel_B
- Start date
To be fair I've never driven a Cleveland (I tend to be allergic to carbs as they tend to be allergic to altitude changes and severe angles 
) but yeah, as was mentioned the C is supposed to be more of a high-revving car engine.
I think the EFI W was a decent truck engine for its time. Like all the small block V8s of that time you're not going to win any races and I'd recommend being a more involved driver if it's an automatic, ie killing OD at the base of climbs and downshifting further as necessary....then again I was rarely below 5000' and quite often at 9000-14000 so naturally aspirated powerplants wheeze a bit more ...
) but yeah, as was mentioned the C is supposed to be more of a high-revving car engine. I think the EFI W was a decent truck engine for its time. Like all the small block V8s of that time you're not going to win any races and I'd recommend being a more involved driver if it's an automatic, ie killing OD at the base of climbs and downshifting further as necessary....then again I was rarely below 5000' and quite often at 9000-14000 so naturally aspirated powerplants wheeze a bit more ...
dnewton3
Staff member
In stock carb'd form, the 351W was always considered inferior because it didn't have the high flowing heads of the 351C (canted valve design not unlike the "rat motor" Chevy). The 351C had a fairly short run, whereas the Windsor family enjoyed decades of use from the early 1960s to the late 90s in various displacements. The stock 351W was pretty darn reliable, though it always was over-shadowed by the performance image it's stablemate Cleveland.
Ironically, the 351W has far exceeded the 351C in terms of aftermarket support in the last three decades. The Windsor is the basis of many monster cubic inch builds (408" and up to 427"), and is known the be very stout when built right. The oil system the Windsor also is superior to the 351C, which had issues with prolonged high-rpm runs because it oiled the cam first whereas the Windsor prioritized the crank first.
You can build a backyard 351W out of any truck or car engine, or buy aftermarket stuff all the way up to aluminum 4-bolt blocks, etc. The support in choices for induction systems for Windsor engines is also top notch; far exceeds the 351C variant. The 351W also has larger main bearing journals, and while that does increase the relative bearing surface speed, it's been proven very durable and can sustain some fairly insane power levels.
The 351C even weighs more in the bare block form, mainly because it has that massive timing chain embossment on the front, whereas the Windor has a stamped cover fully surrounding the timing set.
I'm not saying you can't build a screaming 351C; it can be done for sure. For nostalgia, the 351C is king (especially the 351 Boss variant). But for the common man, it's far cheaper to build a 351W and you'll get every bit the same power and better reliability, for less cost.
Ironically, the 351W has far exceeded the 351C in terms of aftermarket support in the last three decades. The Windsor is the basis of many monster cubic inch builds (408" and up to 427"), and is known the be very stout when built right. The oil system the Windsor also is superior to the 351C, which had issues with prolonged high-rpm runs because it oiled the cam first whereas the Windsor prioritized the crank first.
You can build a backyard 351W out of any truck or car engine, or buy aftermarket stuff all the way up to aluminum 4-bolt blocks, etc. The support in choices for induction systems for Windsor engines is also top notch; far exceeds the 351C variant. The 351W also has larger main bearing journals, and while that does increase the relative bearing surface speed, it's been proven very durable and can sustain some fairly insane power levels.
The 351C even weighs more in the bare block form, mainly because it has that massive timing chain embossment on the front, whereas the Windor has a stamped cover fully surrounding the timing set.
I'm not saying you can't build a screaming 351C; it can be done for sure. For nostalgia, the 351C is king (especially the 351 Boss variant). But for the common man, it's far cheaper to build a 351W and you'll get every bit the same power and better reliability, for less cost.
Also for @Shel_B : water pumps jobs kinda suck balls on these solely because several bolts are likely to be rusted and break when coming out.
I only mention it because if you come across a nice rig but spot any weeping, milk it for all it's worth to get the price down.
If you're lucky the bolts snap off into the timing cover a bit, then you can slip custom bushings into the cover to guide your drill bit. I actually made custom bushings for this purpose -- I honestly don't know how guys without a lathe approach this problem.
I only mention it because if you come across a nice rig but spot any weeping, milk it for all it's worth to get the price down.
If you're lucky the bolts snap off into the timing cover a bit, then you can slip custom bushings into the cover to guide your drill bit. I actually made custom bushings for this purpose -- I honestly don't know how guys without a lathe approach this problem.
I cut my teeth on 351C motors. The way to go was getting the Australian Cleveland heads. 2V ports but closed chamber heads. I once bought a pallet of them, you couldn't sandblast the hardened sludge off them, but they all sold fast for what they were.
I ran 351W motors in a couple of work vans. The only issue beside disappointment of performance compared to the Cleveland was the fuel pump eccentrics coming off and the factory crap timing gears. Easy enough to do at the same time though.
I ran 351W motors in a couple of work vans. The only issue beside disappointment of performance compared to the Cleveland was the fuel pump eccentrics coming off and the factory crap timing gears. Easy enough to do at the same time though.
I had one in a 92 F150 4x4 with an E4OD automatic trans. It ran good and strong but 12mpg was about all I could get out of it. It had 3.08 gears too which was kinda odd to me for a 4x4.
My dad had one in an 88 Bronco. First year they came with efi. He put over 200,000 miles on the original engine, I rebuilt it for him and he sold the truck with over 300,000 miles on it.
That truck pulled generator trailers, plowed snow, always had a ton of tools and stuff in it...
Ask me, the 351 W is plenty tough.
That truck pulled generator trailers, plowed snow, always had a ton of tools and stuff in it...
Ask me, the 351 W is plenty tough.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Yeah, we used to bump the timing to 12-14 initial on the 302 HO's, and then you had to run 91, but it gave you a nice bump in response and you picked up a bit of power, lol.I dunno, and looking at RA and AutoZone I can't seem to find a listing for a knock sensor, detonation sensor, piezoelectric or vibration sensor.
But the thing to do was to try to bump the timing a bit to get more power. On the truck mailing lists I was on (ya know, before these fancy forum thingies) the 302 guys would get a CEL and KS code when they'd gone too far. 351 guys just had to "listen" for it.
According to this they ARE hard to get (as way back as 2011??) and maybe moved from intake to back of block?
Infamous Knock Sensor!
www.fullsizebronco.com
I would stash a PCM and a new Distributor with the module already bolted to it in case they fail on the side of the road.
AODs were behind 351Ws in Crown Vics.
I had a 88 so equipped (police package), also with a VV carburetor, as the EFI plenum won't fit under the hood. 2.73 rear axle gear in it, so dreadful off the line. Got 20 mpg out of it once, but usually 12-15. Needed 3.55 gears to have some mechanical advantage off the line.
I have a 351w in my 96 f250 with 61k on the clock. I baby it. The only issue I've had was a timing cover leak which the mechaic said is pretty common kn them. Also oil pan and rear main seal leaks were pretty pricy to fix due fo orientation of the engine and a cross member blocking the oil pan. Napa sells a performance water pump for like $145. I've been super happy with that addition to the engine. I'm a novice but that's my experience.
Interesting, why did you feel you needed a performance water pump? It presumably has a higher flow rate?
IIRC this was one of the most trouble prone carbs ever made (VV carb) and was common on the early 80's 351, this is #1 to go in the bin for a 4bbl and intake conversion.
Agreed. Nobody was brave enough to make an attempt to fix or work on them.
I had a co-worker that I carpooled with during the late-80s who had one of them on his Ford. About once a week, I would have to take the air cleaner off and push the slides back with a screwdriver while he cranked it over. He never did get it fixed and junked the car out. I'm not sure who was pushing the slides back on the thing when I wasn't in the car with him.
I owned an '85 Bronco with 351 and a Motorcraft 4bbl of some sort. It was terrible.
Ever notice how '80-86 Fords are nearly extinct but square bodies are still everywhere? I mean yeah '80-86 interior was horrible (everyone remember Ford's Whorehouse Red velvet????) and TTB is duh-umb but if they'd had decent carburetion like a Qjet I think a lot more would still be on the road. You still see bricknoses because they're still running (with EFI)
Ever notice how '80-86 Fords are nearly extinct but square bodies are still everywhere? I mean yeah '80-86 interior was horrible (everyone remember Ford's Whorehouse Red velvet????) and TTB is duh-umb but if they'd had decent carburetion like a Qjet I think a lot more would still be on the road. You still see bricknoses because they're still running (with EFI)
Should have got the 429.Dad had a '70s Gran Torino with the 351W, gutless. Weren't these engines before liters were invented?
