I'm not complaining, it's a sign that used car market may come down to a more sane level.
32% of used car trade ins are underwater
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Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Can you imagine what it would do to the economy if say half the people purchased new cars with cash and people started keeping their cars a year or two more? It would be a terrible hit on the economy.
The net impact to the economy would be zero, since people would just spend the money on other things.
It's not as though the average American would save it.
What the car makers lost vacation destinations, chain restaurants and smart handset sellers would gain.
Can you imagine what it would do to the economy if say half the people purchased new cars with cash and people started keeping their cars a year or two more? It would be a terrible hit on the economy.
The net impact to the economy would be zero, since people would just spend the money on other things.
It's not as though the average American would save it.
What the car makers lost vacation destinations, chain restaurants and smart handset sellers would gain.
People can't afford new cars anymore. Nisan sells the Micra for under $10k in Canada, but they don't sell it in the US at all. The Mirage and Spark are overpriced by at least $3000
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I'm surprised it's only 32%.
This.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I'm surprised it's only 32%.
This.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
You should pay attention to the road tests and marketing hype. How could you possibly be happy with a vehicle that did not have heated/cooled seats, leather, sunroof and all that other stuff? This is especially true if you can extend the loan to keep the payments down. You just have to accept the fact that you will be making car payments the rest of your life if you want to be happy and being debt free is out of the question. Why would you want to be debt free anyhow when you could be driving a really nice vehicle?
Cars have really come a long way in the past few years with a lot of new features. I remember looking at a 2014 Rav4 for my wife, 10 years newer than hers. The 2014 was basically the same exact vehicle as the 2004. Nothing to get excited about. But in the 4 years since then, the 2018 Rav4s have a lot of great new features. Push button start, blind spot monitoring, lane departure, pedestrian detection, radar cruise control, parking sonar, and even automatic high beams.
Depends on what is more important to you. You seem very adverse to having debt. That strikes me as unAmerican.
You should pay attention to the road tests and marketing hype. How could you possibly be happy with a vehicle that did not have heated/cooled seats, leather, sunroof and all that other stuff? This is especially true if you can extend the loan to keep the payments down. You just have to accept the fact that you will be making car payments the rest of your life if you want to be happy and being debt free is out of the question. Why would you want to be debt free anyhow when you could be driving a really nice vehicle?
Cars have really come a long way in the past few years with a lot of new features. I remember looking at a 2014 Rav4 for my wife, 10 years newer than hers. The 2014 was basically the same exact vehicle as the 2004. Nothing to get excited about. But in the 4 years since then, the 2018 Rav4s have a lot of great new features. Push button start, blind spot monitoring, lane departure, pedestrian detection, radar cruise control, parking sonar, and even automatic high beams.
Depends on what is more important to you. You seem very adverse to having debt. That strikes me as unAmerican.
I am extremely happy with my little Fiesta, and I got it for $4K off the $17K sticker. Apparently, nobody else wants a Fiesta sedan with a weird engine and a stick shift. It is probably the last new car that I will ever buy (well, I've said that before, but I mean it this time!). I am perfectly willing and able fix old cars and keep them running. In fact, I prefer it. My real problem has been not having my own garage to work in. A mechanic living without a garage is like ... a computer programmer living without electricty ... or something.
That might not apply to the general public. Their problem is finding an honest mechanic that is willing to maintain their old cars. Why did I become a mechanic? A large part of the reason is because I was tired of getting ripped off and treated like an idiot by shops. I knew when I was getting ripped off, but I didn't exactly know how to fix things myself. People buy new cars because the warranty covers everything. But if the new car starts having problems, you have to find an honest dealership to do warranty work. Most of them hate doing it because they have agreements with the manufacturers to do warranty work for far less money per hour than the non-warranty work that they will try to up sell at every opportunity. It's just awful being a car owner for the general public.
That might not apply to the general public. Their problem is finding an honest mechanic that is willing to maintain their old cars. Why did I become a mechanic? A large part of the reason is because I was tired of getting ripped off and treated like an idiot by shops. I knew when I was getting ripped off, but I didn't exactly know how to fix things myself. People buy new cars because the warranty covers everything. But if the new car starts having problems, you have to find an honest dealership to do warranty work. Most of them hate doing it because they have agreements with the manufacturers to do warranty work for far less money per hour than the non-warranty work that they will try to up sell at every opportunity. It's just awful being a car owner for the general public.
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: NibbanaBanana
It's insanity. There's perfectly good new cars available for less than $15K. An excellent job of marketing by auto manufacturers.
These are good cars?
10 Best New Cars Under $15,000
2016 Hyundai Accent - MSRP $14,745.
2016 Nissan Versa Note - $14,230.
2016 Chevrolet Spark - MSRP $12,660.
2015 Mitsubishi Mirage - MSRP $12,995.
2016 Toyota Yaris - MSRP $14,895.
2016 Chevrolet Sonic - MSRP $14,345.
2016 Ford Fiesta - MSRP $14,580.
2016 Kia Rio - MSRP $14,165.
Don't you know that most people want some size/luxury? P/U's and SUV's are the wanted vehicles.
Originally Posted By: NibbanaBanana
It's insanity. There's perfectly good new cars available for less than $15K. An excellent job of marketing by auto manufacturers.
These are good cars?
10 Best New Cars Under $15,000
2016 Hyundai Accent - MSRP $14,745.
2016 Nissan Versa Note - $14,230.
2016 Chevrolet Spark - MSRP $12,660.
2015 Mitsubishi Mirage - MSRP $12,995.
2016 Toyota Yaris - MSRP $14,895.
2016 Chevrolet Sonic - MSRP $14,345.
2016 Ford Fiesta - MSRP $14,580.
2016 Kia Rio - MSRP $14,165.
Don't you know that most people want some size/luxury? P/U's and SUV's are the wanted vehicles.
oilBabe got us Groupon tix to the STL Autoshow. My 19 old and I were looking at the Mirage and the sales droid came up and said they are offering 3K off the price.
It was a bit too penalty box compared to the 6 year old Mazda 3 Grand Touring I just bought. But I could see how it might be the right choice for someone who lives in a city and doesn't do much/any freeway driving.
But I think Mitsubishi wants to focus on CUVs as that was the bulk of their display.
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
People can't afford new cars anymore. Nisan sells the Micra for under $10k in Canada, but they don't sell it in the US at all. The Mirage and Spark are overpriced by at least $3000
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I'm surprised it's only 32%.
This.
It was a bit too penalty box compared to the 6 year old Mazda 3 Grand Touring I just bought. But I could see how it might be the right choice for someone who lives in a city and doesn't do much/any freeway driving.
But I think Mitsubishi wants to focus on CUVs as that was the bulk of their display.
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
People can't afford new cars anymore. Nisan sells the Micra for under $10k in Canada, but they don't sell it in the US at all. The Mirage and Spark are overpriced by at least $3000
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I'm surprised it's only 32%.
This.
Fickle America and brainwashing advertising. We HAVE to have the latest and the greatest or we might be considered uncool. Not saving up for things (or anything) and an impulsive and impatient attitude are also the problem.
This isn't surprising. Most people nowadays just check if they can afford the monthly payment, not the actual price of the entire thing.
The finance Dept at dealerships just has to issue loans with a long enough term to make the payment workable.
And isn't it the case that half the country couldn't come up with $1000 for an emergency? Most people are suckers for outward appearances and fitting in by owning the right stuff.
The finance Dept at dealerships just has to issue loans with a long enough term to make the payment workable.
And isn't it the case that half the country couldn't come up with $1000 for an emergency? Most people are suckers for outward appearances and fitting in by owning the right stuff.
Which explains why lots of folks are leasing these days. As long as they don't go over the mileage and keep the minor dents/scratches to a minimum, they can walk away free and clear at the end of the lease and can start the process all over again with the latest, greatest and coolest ride they can afford.
If only there was a technology to put knowledge at the fingertips of the common man so that he could look for tips and pricing trends when it comes to buying and financing major purchases.
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
The dealer network are perfecting the art of triple dipping on the hapless consumer.
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
The dealer network are perfecting the art of triple dipping on the hapless consumer.
UD
Originally Posted By: Artem
People need to keep their cars for longer, until it's paid off, AND THEN you're free to go trade it in if you want. Use that 2-3k car value as your down payment on the next one, of you want.
This is currently not possible. Given that most vehicles since the mid 2000's are all made with plastic engine and powertrain components, means that they simply cannot be maintained long term without considerable repair/rebuild costs.
Add to that the computer software required to repair and service these vehicles, makes your statement financially silly. Much cheaper and easier to simply get a new(er) vehicle.
Now, don't get me started on the soy based wiring insulation and interior panels, seats etc which all have a finite life expectancy.
People need to keep their cars for longer, until it's paid off, AND THEN you're free to go trade it in if you want. Use that 2-3k car value as your down payment on the next one, of you want.
This is currently not possible. Given that most vehicles since the mid 2000's are all made with plastic engine and powertrain components, means that they simply cannot be maintained long term without considerable repair/rebuild costs.
Add to that the computer software required to repair and service these vehicles, makes your statement financially silly. Much cheaper and easier to simply get a new(er) vehicle.
Now, don't get me started on the soy based wiring insulation and interior panels, seats etc which all have a finite life expectancy.
Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
This is currently not possible. Given that most vehicles since the mid 2000's are all made with plastic engine and powertrain components, means that they simply cannot be maintained long term without considerable repair/rebuild costs.
Sounds like mechanics will need a 3D printer in future.
Agree about the computers, though they can often be replaced with newer components.
This is currently not possible. Given that most vehicles since the mid 2000's are all made with plastic engine and powertrain components, means that they simply cannot be maintained long term without considerable repair/rebuild costs.
Sounds like mechanics will need a 3D printer in future.
Agree about the computers, though they can often be replaced with newer components.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
If only there was a technology to put knowledge at the fingertips of the common man so that he could look for tips and pricing trends when it comes to buying and financing major purchases.
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
The dealer network are perfecting the art of triple dipping on the hapless consumer.
UD
Amen, bro. Back in the day we had to put down 20% so we wouldn't be under water.
If only there was a technology to put knowledge at the fingertips of the common man so that he could look for tips and pricing trends when it comes to buying and financing major purchases.
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
The dealer network are perfecting the art of triple dipping on the hapless consumer.
UD
Amen, bro. Back in the day we had to put down 20% so we wouldn't be under water.
The bank & finance companies' practice of amortizing car loans so that all the interest is paid first, and all the principal is paid at the end of the loan GUARANTEES that virtually all trade-ins before the loan is paid off will be upside down-it's a loser loan, possibly the 2nd worst way to borrow money, right after the high interest credit card. I've had precisely ONE car loan in my life, when I bought my 1 year old Civic right after I got married, so my wife could have something reliable to drive-when I realized how much of a screw job it was, I vowed, never again.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
If only there was a technology to put knowledge at the fingertips of the common man so that he could look for tips and pricing trends when it comes to buying and financing major purchases.
Most actually try but can't talk their way around a floor sales guy and give up in round 1.
I watched happen live in front of me this last december while buying my Ridgeline.
The conversation 1 desk away from me went something like this .....
Sheep - Blue book on my car says its worth 10K. I only owe 10 on it and its in good condition and well maintained so you are getting a fair deal.
Wolf - Well then sell it to Kelley then. (I thought this was funny) "The market happens to be soft on (whatever you are trading in) and we can't move it for that so you are little bit " upside down" -why don't you sell it yourself and bring in cash? "
Sheep - well what will you take?
Wolf - 7500 max we have to clean it, inspect it tune it up and give warranty on it so it just isnt worth 10K to us right now today.
Sheep - Can you roll the 2500 Im upside down into the new car?
Wolf- sure I'll even buy you lunch!.... (the customer IS lunch)
Negative equity created out of thin air.
UD
If only there was a technology to put knowledge at the fingertips of the common man so that he could look for tips and pricing trends when it comes to buying and financing major purchases.
Most actually try but can't talk their way around a floor sales guy and give up in round 1.
I watched happen live in front of me this last december while buying my Ridgeline.
The conversation 1 desk away from me went something like this .....
Sheep - Blue book on my car says its worth 10K. I only owe 10 on it and its in good condition and well maintained so you are getting a fair deal.
Wolf - Well then sell it to Kelley then. (I thought this was funny) "The market happens to be soft on (whatever you are trading in) and we can't move it for that so you are little bit " upside down" -why don't you sell it yourself and bring in cash? "
Sheep - well what will you take?
Wolf - 7500 max we have to clean it, inspect it tune it up and give warranty on it so it just isnt worth 10K to us right now today.
Sheep - Can you roll the 2500 Im upside down into the new car?
Wolf- sure I'll even buy you lunch!.... (the customer IS lunch)
Negative equity created out of thin air.
UD
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: NibbanaBanana
It's insanity. There's perfectly good new cars available for less than $15K. An excellent job of marketing by auto manufacturers.
These are good cars?
10 Best New Cars Under $15,000
2016 Hyundai Accent - MSRP $14,745.
2016 Nissan Versa Note - $14,230.
2016 Chevrolet Spark - MSRP $12,660.
2015 Mitsubishi Mirage - MSRP $12,995.
2016 Toyota Yaris - MSRP $14,895.
2016 Chevrolet Sonic - MSRP $14,345.
2016 Ford Fiesta - MSRP $14,580.
2016 Kia Rio - MSRP $14,165.
The reality is, the people who technically NEED to buy those cars because it's in their budget, end up buying some $32,000 Benz instead and then struggle with the $800 monthly payment. But hey, at least they look good driving to work... to McDonalds.
I'm not sure what kind of Benz you can get for $32k, that's more like a CLA which is their entry level car. But that only works out to about a 560 monthly payment over 5 years if you're buying it with no money down. They're on lease specials all the time in the $330 range.
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: NibbanaBanana
It's insanity. There's perfectly good new cars available for less than $15K. An excellent job of marketing by auto manufacturers.
These are good cars?
10 Best New Cars Under $15,000
2016 Hyundai Accent - MSRP $14,745.
2016 Nissan Versa Note - $14,230.
2016 Chevrolet Spark - MSRP $12,660.
2015 Mitsubishi Mirage - MSRP $12,995.
2016 Toyota Yaris - MSRP $14,895.
2016 Chevrolet Sonic - MSRP $14,345.
2016 Ford Fiesta - MSRP $14,580.
2016 Kia Rio - MSRP $14,165.
The reality is, the people who technically NEED to buy those cars because it's in their budget, end up buying some $32,000 Benz instead and then struggle with the $800 monthly payment. But hey, at least they look good driving to work... to McDonalds.
I'm not sure what kind of Benz you can get for $32k, that's more like a CLA which is their entry level car. But that only works out to about a 560 monthly payment over 5 years if you're buying it with no money down. They're on lease specials all the time in the $330 range.
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