4WD
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Yeah, happy place for a locker
2019 Subaru Dual X-Mode
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Originally Posted by 4WD
Yeah, happy place for a locker
Yep. I would be surprised if it did not come to this.
Yeah, happy place for a locker
Yep. I would be surprised if it did not come to this.
Originally Posted by road_rascal
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
What?!?!?
The AWD system in my old RAV4 V6 was crude as [censored]...it loved to bring the back end around on ice.
The front wheels would slip and then ALL the power went back to the rear....WHOOOSHHH here comes the back end of the car wanting to trade places with the front!
The workaround was to punch the electronic 4WD drive button first and then it would behave...until it shut itself off at 25mph.
It got me around in winter, but it was hardly sophisticated...the system in my FXT eats its lunch AND dinner.
Maybe they improved the RAV4's AWD when they dumped the V6 option that was the only thing that made the vehicle possibly worthwhile to me?
Never had an issue with the rear end kicking out in my V6 Rav4, and this last winter it really got put to the test.
My RAV6 was a 2006...it's quite possible the system was updated by 2012.
I was probably also spoiled by coming from an Outback with a fairly bulletproof AWD system and very little power to get in trouble with by comparison.
The problem was most obvious in freezing rain...straight line behavior was tolerable, but having to turn from a stop usually resulted in too much power going to the rear too suddenly even with a real feather touch on the gas. Driving on ice always requires extreme care, but I found that my RAV6 struggled with it more than I expected even with good winter tires...until I figured out that I should pop it into electronic 4WD whenever I stopped on ice. I had to remember to do it and I really disliked that it would shut off at 25mph, but it did eliminate the problems with getting going on ice. I would even slow down enough for it to engage before I turned on to the big hill up to my neighborhood, but it would usually pop off partway up the hill and I didn't like feeling that while I was still climbing.
I had a fairly expensive AWD system repair just out of warranty and the guys at the indy shop I used told me they were doing lots of the same repair over and over....they had instances of damage occurring when the front tires hit slick stop lines in the rain and the abrupt power transfer to the back was causing cracks like I had.
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
What?!?!?
The AWD system in my old RAV4 V6 was crude as [censored]...it loved to bring the back end around on ice.
The front wheels would slip and then ALL the power went back to the rear....WHOOOSHHH here comes the back end of the car wanting to trade places with the front!
The workaround was to punch the electronic 4WD drive button first and then it would behave...until it shut itself off at 25mph.
It got me around in winter, but it was hardly sophisticated...the system in my FXT eats its lunch AND dinner.
Maybe they improved the RAV4's AWD when they dumped the V6 option that was the only thing that made the vehicle possibly worthwhile to me?
Never had an issue with the rear end kicking out in my V6 Rav4, and this last winter it really got put to the test.
My RAV6 was a 2006...it's quite possible the system was updated by 2012.
I was probably also spoiled by coming from an Outback with a fairly bulletproof AWD system and very little power to get in trouble with by comparison.
The problem was most obvious in freezing rain...straight line behavior was tolerable, but having to turn from a stop usually resulted in too much power going to the rear too suddenly even with a real feather touch on the gas. Driving on ice always requires extreme care, but I found that my RAV6 struggled with it more than I expected even with good winter tires...until I figured out that I should pop it into electronic 4WD whenever I stopped on ice. I had to remember to do it and I really disliked that it would shut off at 25mph, but it did eliminate the problems with getting going on ice. I would even slow down enough for it to engage before I turned on to the big hill up to my neighborhood, but it would usually pop off partway up the hill and I didn't like feeling that while I was still climbing.
I had a fairly expensive AWD system repair just out of warranty and the guys at the indy shop I used told me they were doing lots of the same repair over and over....they had instances of damage occurring when the front tires hit slick stop lines in the rain and the abrupt power transfer to the back was causing cracks like I had.
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by road_rascal
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
What?!?!?
The AWD system in my old RAV4 V6 was crude as [censored]...it loved to bring the back end around on ice.
The front wheels would slip and then ALL the power went back to the rear....WHOOOSHHH here comes the back end of the car wanting to trade places with the front!
The workaround was to punch the electronic 4WD drive button first and then it would behave...until it shut itself off at 25mph.
It got me around in winter, but it was hardly sophisticated...the system in my FXT eats its lunch AND dinner.
Maybe they improved the RAV4's AWD when they dumped the V6 option that was the only thing that made the vehicle possibly worthwhile to me?
Never had an issue with the rear end kicking out in my V6 Rav4, and this last winter it really got put to the test.
My RAV6 was a 2006...it's quite possible the system was updated by 2012.
I was probably also spoiled by coming from an Outback with a fairly bulletproof AWD system and very little power to get in trouble with by comparison.
The problem was most obvious in freezing rain...straight line behavior was tolerable, but having to turn from a stop usually resulted in too much power going to the rear too suddenly even with a real feather touch on the gas. Driving on ice always requires extreme care, but I found that my RAV6 struggled with it more than I expected even with good winter tires...until I figured out that I should pop it into electronic 4WD whenever I stopped on ice. I had to remember to do it and I really disliked that it would shut off at 25mph, but it did eliminate the problems with getting going on ice. I would even slow down enough for it to engage before I turned on to the big hill up to my neighborhood, but it would usually pop off partway up the hill and I didn't like feeling that while I was still climbing.
I had a fairly expensive AWD system repair just out of warranty and the guys at the indy shop I used told me they were doing lots of the same repair over and over....they had instances of damage occurring when the front tires hit slick stop lines in the rain and the abrupt power transfer to the back was causing cracks like I had.
AWD in new Toyota's is also not on par with competition, and I do not mean Subaru. Pretty much all car platform based Toyota's use same AWD. 100% FWD, power shifted back when needed. In 2015 system was updated to send 10% torque during acceleration from stop or when power is required going forward in normal drive. How does it function? It is absolute POS. You can literally feel front tires spin before system transfers power to the back. Snow, ice, gravel , wet, system is too slow. Not to mention overly aggressive ESP and TC that pretty much limits anyone who know how to use power in snow to drive car. Does it do job? Yeah. I mean, I personally in minivan do not need anything else. On other hand people in Highlander might get in trouble expecting more.
Is it better system than in Subaru? That is not even debatable. However, RAV4 ended up doing that hill, Subaru did not. I think problem is that Subaru limits performance in certain situations in order to prevent CVT damage. Fine. But than, do not advertise it as this crossover that has capability of true off-road systems and than cannot beat slew of other cars (it was not only RAV4). Sometime people really over do it with Subaru's, expecting impossible. Except Impreza STi or WRX. Subaru is really not most dynamic vehicle, yet I have seen numerous times people getting in trouble in snow not because of AWD, but because of other limiting factors. It is this deceptive advertising that gets people in trouble with Subaru.
People have too much confidence in these vehicle, mostly due to marketing. Best thing I have ever seen was once in Castle Rock here in CO, on I-25 when BMW M5 competition passed me doing probably 150mph+, and guy in Subaru WRX trying to catch up, which was fools errand. I am like: well, he is trying. But than guy in Subaru Outback 2.5i passes me trying to catch up with two of them. Now that is example of living in some distant universe.
Originally Posted by road_rascal
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
What?!?!?
The AWD system in my old RAV4 V6 was crude as [censored]...it loved to bring the back end around on ice.
The front wheels would slip and then ALL the power went back to the rear....WHOOOSHHH here comes the back end of the car wanting to trade places with the front!
The workaround was to punch the electronic 4WD drive button first and then it would behave...until it shut itself off at 25mph.
It got me around in winter, but it was hardly sophisticated...the system in my FXT eats its lunch AND dinner.
Maybe they improved the RAV4's AWD when they dumped the V6 option that was the only thing that made the vehicle possibly worthwhile to me?
Never had an issue with the rear end kicking out in my V6 Rav4, and this last winter it really got put to the test.
My RAV6 was a 2006...it's quite possible the system was updated by 2012.
I was probably also spoiled by coming from an Outback with a fairly bulletproof AWD system and very little power to get in trouble with by comparison.
The problem was most obvious in freezing rain...straight line behavior was tolerable, but having to turn from a stop usually resulted in too much power going to the rear too suddenly even with a real feather touch on the gas. Driving on ice always requires extreme care, but I found that my RAV6 struggled with it more than I expected even with good winter tires...until I figured out that I should pop it into electronic 4WD whenever I stopped on ice. I had to remember to do it and I really disliked that it would shut off at 25mph, but it did eliminate the problems with getting going on ice. I would even slow down enough for it to engage before I turned on to the big hill up to my neighborhood, but it would usually pop off partway up the hill and I didn't like feeling that while I was still climbing.
I had a fairly expensive AWD system repair just out of warranty and the guys at the indy shop I used told me they were doing lots of the same repair over and over....they had instances of damage occurring when the front tires hit slick stop lines in the rain and the abrupt power transfer to the back was causing cracks like I had.
AWD in new Toyota's is also not on par with competition, and I do not mean Subaru. Pretty much all car platform based Toyota's use same AWD. 100% FWD, power shifted back when needed. In 2015 system was updated to send 10% torque during acceleration from stop or when power is required going forward in normal drive. How does it function? It is absolute POS. You can literally feel front tires spin before system transfers power to the back. Snow, ice, gravel , wet, system is too slow. Not to mention overly aggressive ESP and TC that pretty much limits anyone who know how to use power in snow to drive car. Does it do job? Yeah. I mean, I personally in minivan do not need anything else. On other hand people in Highlander might get in trouble expecting more.
Is it better system than in Subaru? That is not even debatable. However, RAV4 ended up doing that hill, Subaru did not. I think problem is that Subaru limits performance in certain situations in order to prevent CVT damage. Fine. But than, do not advertise it as this crossover that has capability of true off-road systems and than cannot beat slew of other cars (it was not only RAV4). Sometime people really over do it with Subaru's, expecting impossible. Except Impreza STi or WRX. Subaru is really not most dynamic vehicle, yet I have seen numerous times people getting in trouble in snow not because of AWD, but because of other limiting factors. It is this deceptive advertising that gets people in trouble with Subaru.
People have too much confidence in these vehicle, mostly due to marketing. Best thing I have ever seen was once in Castle Rock here in CO, on I-25 when BMW M5 competition passed me doing probably 150mph+, and guy in Subaru WRX trying to catch up, which was fools errand. I am like: well, he is trying. But than guy in Subaru Outback 2.5i passes me trying to catch up with two of them. Now that is example of living in some distant universe.
Interesting observations on the Toyota AWD as I observed that on a Sienna. Our ski home driveway that seperates men from boys so to speak in terms of AWD with a grade, mud/gravel, sheer ice base, and occasional deep snow. The RAV4 at least a few generations back did have a software locker of some sort that made the vehicle work well though.
I honestly never noticed Subaru stuck but new stuff seems to struggle a bit more then the analog system versions of Subaru AWD. We have a 2000 Forester unregistered as point of reference there.
I honestly never noticed Subaru stuck but new stuff seems to struggle a bit more then the analog system versions of Subaru AWD. We have a 2000 Forester unregistered as point of reference there.
Originally Posted by madRiver
Interesting observations on the Toyota AWD as I observed that on a Sienna. Our ski home driveway that seperates men from boys so to speak in terms of AWD with a grade, mud/gravel, sheer ice base, and occasional deep snow. The RAV4 at least a few generations back did have a software locker of some sort that made the vehicle work well though.
I honestly never noticed Subaru stuck but new stuff seems to struggle a bit more then the analog system versions of Subaru AWD. We have a 2000 Forester unregistered as point of reference there.
Problem is basic misunderstanding what AWD or 4WD or whatever can do. I actually pulled out old Outback with analog system on HWY 9 around South park here with my VW CC that is only FWD. This young girl got into ditch and could not get out. Tires? My MacBook Pro aluminum surface is more rugged than her tires were. I explained her why that happened, but she still had question mark hanging over her head why that happened.
This March during Bombgenesis on some 13-14% hill, when wet snow turned into pure ice and started to get covered by dry snow, it was absolute [censored]. I passed guy in brand new Impreza and he just could not take it that minivan passed him. He turned sideways on the road trying to catch up. I had snow tires, he did not. That is where difference was. That day, when we had 8-10ft drifts and visibility was 2-3ft, most cars that people abandoned on the road? JEEP's, trucks and Subaru's (JEEP Wranglers were absolute winners).
Then again, I know some skiers with Subaru's and snow tires on them, and of course, that is another story. Then they are mostly limited with the fact that they are seriously underpowered here in high country. RAV4's are not any better power wise (except those old V6, but there are very few of them).
Sienna, Tiguan, BMW X5 35d, of cars I owned in CO, none with snow tires had any kind of problems, and I use local roads to go to ski. Driving in blizzard over 11,000ft pass is no joke from various reasons, but never came to position I wished I had locking software or true locking differential with snow tires. I did those same passes in same weather with my FWD VW CC.
Interesting observations on the Toyota AWD as I observed that on a Sienna. Our ski home driveway that seperates men from boys so to speak in terms of AWD with a grade, mud/gravel, sheer ice base, and occasional deep snow. The RAV4 at least a few generations back did have a software locker of some sort that made the vehicle work well though.
I honestly never noticed Subaru stuck but new stuff seems to struggle a bit more then the analog system versions of Subaru AWD. We have a 2000 Forester unregistered as point of reference there.
Problem is basic misunderstanding what AWD or 4WD or whatever can do. I actually pulled out old Outback with analog system on HWY 9 around South park here with my VW CC that is only FWD. This young girl got into ditch and could not get out. Tires? My MacBook Pro aluminum surface is more rugged than her tires were. I explained her why that happened, but she still had question mark hanging over her head why that happened.
This March during Bombgenesis on some 13-14% hill, when wet snow turned into pure ice and started to get covered by dry snow, it was absolute [censored]. I passed guy in brand new Impreza and he just could not take it that minivan passed him. He turned sideways on the road trying to catch up. I had snow tires, he did not. That is where difference was. That day, when we had 8-10ft drifts and visibility was 2-3ft, most cars that people abandoned on the road? JEEP's, trucks and Subaru's (JEEP Wranglers were absolute winners).
Then again, I know some skiers with Subaru's and snow tires on them, and of course, that is another story. Then they are mostly limited with the fact that they are seriously underpowered here in high country. RAV4's are not any better power wise (except those old V6, but there are very few of them).
Sienna, Tiguan, BMW X5 35d, of cars I owned in CO, none with snow tires had any kind of problems, and I use local roads to go to ski. Driving in blizzard over 11,000ft pass is no joke from various reasons, but never came to position I wished I had locking software or true locking differential with snow tires. I did those same passes in same weather with my FWD VW CC.
True locking diffs are not as good as a true competent AWD system, especially in nice/snow, IMO
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by madRiver
Interesting observations on the Toyota AWD as I observed that on a Sienna. Our ski home driveway that seperates men from boys so to speak in terms of AWD with a grade, mud/gravel, sheer ice base, and occasional deep snow. The RAV4 at least a few generations back did have a software locker of some sort that made the vehicle work well though.
I honestly never noticed Subaru stuck but new stuff seems to struggle a bit more then the analog system versions of Subaru AWD. We have a 2000 Forester unregistered as point of reference there.
Problem is basic misunderstanding what AWD or 4WD or whatever can do. I actually pulled out old Outback with analog system on HWY 9 around South park here with my VW CC that is only FWD. This young girl got into ditch and could not get out. Tires? My MacBook Pro aluminum surface is more rugged than her tires were. I explained her why that happened, but she still had question mark hanging over her head why that happened.
This March during Bombgenesis on some 13-14% hill, when wet snow turned into pure ice and started to get covered by dry snow, it was absolute [censored]. I passed guy in brand new Impreza and he just could not take it that minivan passed him. He turned sideways on the road trying to catch up. I had snow tires, he did not. That is where difference was. That day, when we had 8-10ft drifts and visibility was 2-3ft, most cars that people abandoned on the road? JEEP's, trucks and Subaru's (JEEP Wranglers were absolute winners).
Then again, I know some skiers with Subaru's and snow tires on them, and of course, that is another story. Then they are mostly limited with the fact that they are seriously underpowered here in high country. RAV4's are not any better power wise (except those old V6, but there are very few of them).
Sienna, Tiguan, BMW X5 35d, of cars I owned in CO, none with snow tires had any kind of problems, and I use local roads to go to ski. Driving in blizzard over 11,000ft pass is no joke from various reasons, but never came to position I wished I had locking software or true locking differential with snow tires. I did those same passes in same weather with my FWD VW CC.
Tires are extremely important and many fail to realize this.
Originally Posted by madRiver
Interesting observations on the Toyota AWD as I observed that on a Sienna. Our ski home driveway that seperates men from boys so to speak in terms of AWD with a grade, mud/gravel, sheer ice base, and occasional deep snow. The RAV4 at least a few generations back did have a software locker of some sort that made the vehicle work well though.
I honestly never noticed Subaru stuck but new stuff seems to struggle a bit more then the analog system versions of Subaru AWD. We have a 2000 Forester unregistered as point of reference there.
Problem is basic misunderstanding what AWD or 4WD or whatever can do. I actually pulled out old Outback with analog system on HWY 9 around South park here with my VW CC that is only FWD. This young girl got into ditch and could not get out. Tires? My MacBook Pro aluminum surface is more rugged than her tires were. I explained her why that happened, but she still had question mark hanging over her head why that happened.
This March during Bombgenesis on some 13-14% hill, when wet snow turned into pure ice and started to get covered by dry snow, it was absolute [censored]. I passed guy in brand new Impreza and he just could not take it that minivan passed him. He turned sideways on the road trying to catch up. I had snow tires, he did not. That is where difference was. That day, when we had 8-10ft drifts and visibility was 2-3ft, most cars that people abandoned on the road? JEEP's, trucks and Subaru's (JEEP Wranglers were absolute winners).
Then again, I know some skiers with Subaru's and snow tires on them, and of course, that is another story. Then they are mostly limited with the fact that they are seriously underpowered here in high country. RAV4's are not any better power wise (except those old V6, but there are very few of them).
Sienna, Tiguan, BMW X5 35d, of cars I owned in CO, none with snow tires had any kind of problems, and I use local roads to go to ski. Driving in blizzard over 11,000ft pass is no joke from various reasons, but never came to position I wished I had locking software or true locking differential with snow tires. I did those same passes in same weather with my FWD VW CC.
Tires are extremely important and many fail to realize this.
Originally Posted by Ws6
True locking diffs are not as good as a true competent AWD system, especially in nice/snow, IMO
Agree. Generally true off road capable vehicles are horrid in snow from various reasons.
True locking diffs are not as good as a true competent AWD system, especially in nice/snow, IMO
Agree. Generally true off road capable vehicles are horrid in snow from various reasons.
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