2-Cycle oil in 4-Cycle fuel

[Auto-Union]

We know it smooths things out. Added compression, lower friction, protection of fuel system componets. I suspect some might feel that there is a risk to cat converter. At super-low ratio, maybe that's not too much an issue, I dunno exactly what the additives are. Anyway, we like UCL, MMO and frankly, I like 2-Cycle. Currently using Poulan "Synthetic" at 500:1. That costs me $.75c/10 gallons, which I go 300 miles on. So, at $3/gallon I need to go an extra 7.5 miles over 300 to break even...blah blah. That comes to needing an extra .75 mpg to break even. I could almost buy 89 octane for that much more money, $.10c/gallon. Anyway, that's what my question is, about the econiomics of use and I guess the performance factor too. What do you guys think, can I get an extra .75mpg?

 

[psudaytona]

My car doesnt seem to respond to UCL with higher mileage. Mine just responds by giving more low end power and smoother operation.

Synthetic and TCW3 oils will likely burn the cleanest. Although, at that ratio, just about any should be pretty safe.

 

[Autodarken]

This is an old myth, that even motorcycle guys still try. Assuming adding 2-stroke oil to 4-stroke fuel will add upper cylinder lubrication and bla bla bla.

Nothing I've seen in my years has shown it makes any difference. It only adds cost, emmisions, and some claim the oil can cause more carbon build up on injectors/valve/rings ... then there's the cat to worry about.

 

[basspro]

I want to throw in my uneducated two cents worth. With little lubrication in gasoline I have always used a fuel additive, and I have used many, with very little documentable fuel milage improvement. That is not the issue here nor mine. I am in the process of evaluating using fuel additive and wear by using it every fillup. I have an 05 GM vehicle and I average almost 50,000 miles a year. By next summer I should have over 150,000 mile and should start to see some wear or in my case I hope almost none. At 89,000= miles, I currently have no oil usage with 10,000 OCI's. I hope my fuel pump and valves,valve guides are clean and show little or less wear than would be expected. I will let you know. MPC

 

[unDummy]

Its no myth. It doesn't mean it'll work for everyone. The easiest method is religiously track the MPG and calculate ROI. Also, tracking common fuel system failures, within the vehicle family, that may possibly be avoided is a plus. Like any form of PM, this takes time.

I see it as, a simple cost effective way of improving the lubricity of the fuel. Very little goes a long way.

Your fuel pump and injectors should last longer with the extra lube. With the number of injectors and pumps that I've seen fail over the years, the only common denominator was that the owners never bothered with any fuel additives.

TCW3 oil not only lubes, but have cleaners in them to prevent carbon buildup in 2-stroke engines. Besides the benefit of improving the fuel lubrication, you'll end up with continual cleaning. If anything, you'll end up with less buildup on the pistons, in the CCs, and past the rings.
The improved cleaning caused by the 2-stroke formula should help maintain clean intake valves. As Shell says, stop gunky valve buildup.
Lubed valves/seats should last longer.
Any residual lube that makes it to the pistons/rings should reduce wear there too.

How good is your fuel blended? MMT, MTBE, ETBE, methanol or ethanol dosed?

You'll end up with more consistent performance over the life of the engine. Some people believe that degradation of performance over the life is acceptable. It, IMO, isn't. Learn to set some higher performance goals.

Besides the MPG improvement, I've quieted some noisy fuel pumps with a little oil added to fuel. That, IMO, was the only proof I needed that a few ounces per each fill definitely adds some amount of lubrication to the fuel system components.

Besides 2-cycle oil, Marvel, Lucas, FuelPower, Lubrigas, Biodiesel........can be added to improve your fuel. Remember that overdosing isn't needed. Start with an ounce per 4-7 gallons of fuel and experiment from there. Those 5 oz lucas UCL bottles are excellent for refilling doses. And, read the bottle directions.

 

[Auto-Union]

Thanks. I'm sticking (pun not intended) w/3oz per 10G. That's a hair over 500:1. If I stopped using it for a tank or two, my impression/experience has been that there is a sort of residule effect. Using it a few times, smoothes out the engine and it sorta stays that way even w/o more additive, making subjective comparisons difficult. So, after 300 miles, I get 10G of gas and add my $.75c worth of "synth" 2-stroke. Maybe I can get a few more miles out of it, all I need is +7 1/2 miles per 300. For $20 per oil change, maybe I get my money's worth in reduced wear and cleaning. Maybe it's a beter idea in a older car than new, but I'm doing it w/ both vehicles, I just like how it runs. What is in 2-cycle anyway? What is a good brand?

 

[Autodarken]

Quote:

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Its no myth. It doesn't mean it'll work for everyone.

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No myth, but it may not work for everyone?
Either it works or it doesnt.
All statements are nothing but speculation.
I will always have issue with speculation and assumptions.

ROI here, IMO, is only a good feeling in your tummy...

 

[unDummy]

Yeah, engine's state of tune and driver's driving style will determine what works or doesn't work. This is no different then any additive out there.

My MPG going up isn't speculation. My fuel pump becoming quieter isn't speculation. My smooter running and quieter engine isn't speculation. Those were facts.

If you don't like it, then don't use it. But, unless you've run it for a while tracking data, sounds, seat of pants feels, don't slam it.

So, Autodarken, since a search of your posts revealed no info on what you have personally used or tested, what has your experience been with 2-stroke oil in vehicle fuel? Specifics would be nice instead slamming everyones comments as pure speculation.

I'd rather believe someone who tried a few gallons over dozens of tanks of fuel and compared it to straight fuel vs. someone simple talking out of the arse and calling it a myth.

 

[Thermo1223]

Using non-#@$%! back water gas will mean much more than 2 cycle oil will ever.

People wonder why they have drivability problems when they use the worst fuel and never excersize the cars engine. Lugging it around town all day only promotes problems.

 

[Autodarken]

Quote:

---

Yeah, engine's state of tune and driver's driving style will determine what works or doesn't work. This is no different then any additive out there.

My MPG going up isn't speculation. My fuel pump becoming quieter isn't speculation. My smooter running and quieter engine isn't speculation. Those were facts.

If you don't like it, then don't use it. But, unless you've run it for a while tracking data, sounds, seat of pants feels, don't slam it.

So, Autodarken, since a search of your posts revealed no info on what you have personally used or tested, what has your experience been with 2-stroke oil in vehicle fuel? Specifics would be nice instead slamming everyones comments as pure speculation.

I'd rather believe someone who tried a few gallons over dozens of tanks of fuel and compared it to straight fuel vs. someone simple talking out of the arse and calling it a myth.

---

Its funny how a new name, and low post number automatically means you dont know anything, and have no experiance. If I were some punk kid, talking out of my arse, my posts wouldn't draw your attention, would it?

All your claims are your oppinion, you state only what you claim to hear or not hear. And I gave my oppion in return, because I know you cant have data backing up your claims.

This MYTH has nothing to do with an engines state of tune OR driving habbits!!! Your comment "doesnt work for everyone" is rubbish. All things being equal in a given car, add 2-stroke oil, and either you realize a gain, or you DONT! Either it works, or it doesnt. Period.

In my expericance, the VERY slim, tought to document gain was always a loosing ROI, and in cars it was a risk IMO. If your going to do it, at least claim its for top end lubrication, and not all the other hogwash mentioned.

 

[unDummy]

Its funny when someone joins a forum and simple states everything is hogwash. I have no problem with opinions when they aren't supported by hearsay.
It had nothing to do with low post count. Since you simply didn't state that you ran some testing in your vehicles, you didn't even try to qualify your statements. If you think you can simply quote your low post count as a defense, you've got some inferiority issues.

I've stated that it worked for me. Prove that it is a myth. You can't? So "bla bla bla" "myth" isn't any good proof, now is it?
Document? should I add a microphone to my fuel pump? the difference between 4500 miles on ten tanks of gas vs 4600 miles on the same amount of fuel?
I also have a 16 year old reasonably high mileage car with original catalytics and o2 sensor that passes the dyno-loaded emissions tests here with flying colors. I have NOT seen any carbon buildup as seen while inspecting plugs, or during a borescope look.

Define top-end lubrication? I guess that rings, pistons, bores, the valves, valve seats don't count. Maybe if you read my earlier post you would've notice that I mentioned lubrication with the fancy words 'top-end'. The topend claim was made and I guess you didn't see it.

Since 2-stroke oil specs get changed every few years, with the current spec being TCW3, maybe YOU need to rethink your 'Nothing I've seen in my years has shown it makes any difference'. The fluid spec's change, usually for the better, definitely regularly. So, what exactly have you seen concerning 2-stroke oil in your 'years'? That would be more convincing then hogwash and bla bla bla!

 

[Auto-Union]

unDummy, I appreciate you input, but it's not worth getting worked-up about other posters. I value your comments and other posters merit speaks for themselves. If I did not say "top end" lube, I apologize....I thought it was implied. That's what I'm getting at with choosing 2-stroke over other UCLs, it probally has a certian additive level that is known w/ predictable effects. Compared to a strait otc top-oil that may just be gummy slop with no additives. At least the 2-cycle has additives, stabilizers and the base oil itself meets a certian quality level. I assume the additives play an important part in the upper cyl and ring packs, both to keep EP protection, compression and cleaning. Some of the additves likely are similar to those in gas/fuel treatment. I'm not into just buying FI cleaner or plain gas treatment. Using that stuff on a regular basis is not a good ROI, once in a while is good. I can however get some of the benefits of FI cleaner and gas treatment PLUS a high quality top oil in one $.75c product. The real question is will a 500:1 give benefit? I don't see increasing the dose as being practical on a long-term basis because of cost. I want the most cost/effective dose and would like to hear about that. Sure a big dose to start off, but a steady treatment rate is maybe not a bad idea. Heck, it comes out to about $200 over 100,000 miles? A single injector service or pump or de-carbonization service costs that much. In a car that I want to keep a long time....good idea? I just want to be sure I'm not doing any harm, that's what I'd like to hear from you guys. (ps the 2-cycle seems to dissolove really easy in the gas, a good sign to me)

 

[Auto-Union]

Early results are coming in. In the CRV, 26 1/4 mpg vs generally 24. IN my RSX, I'm on my best half-tank ever. I got to 230 on a 1/2 when I normally get to exactly 200. 215 was about my best previous half-tank. The results in both cars are looking pretty solid...not like it's a .5mpg gain or anything. I'm feeling good about it.

If possible shoot this thread over to the "Fuels" Forum. Eventually some of Fuel Tanker Man's threads should get there too. I'd be happy to troll-up some fuel threads from this forum for over there.

 

[Auto-Union]

I got 400 hwy miles from a tank. I don't usually go that far, but it was interesting to see it make that marker. Anyway, I got 32mpg hwy and I usually never crack 30. I shoot for 30 on the hwy, but seldom make it. 32 hwy and 33.6 inter-town driving the other day are records for me and represent a solid 2 mpg gain. An inter-town mileage of 31.5 would normally be consider an achievement. Math-wise I gain $2+ in mileage over 10 gallons from less than $.30c to $40c in additive.

 

[bruce381]

fuel have gotten "dryer" over the years and I see no problem using a few ounces of a clean burning "top end" additive BUT other than a 'feeling" it would be hard to evaluate unless trended over a ??long months?? time frame
same gas, same driveing route, same temp, same time year, same whatever.

i like to just use some RL SI-1 to keep things clean and it will also add some "lube" too.
bruce

 

[wsm41bn]

i decided to put 1/2 quart of dexron III tranny fluid in my fuel today before driving 300 miles and it made alot of differance, the engine was more responsive, and smooter, and sounded better, it was 1/2 quart to 20 gallons of Gas.

 

[Auto-Union]

Old thread. I have been using 2C in the older CRV and getting 26mpg, pretty good. The funny thing is I used it in my new Accord for most of break-in, (starting with 10 miles on it) and got great mileage while hammering it. I took away the 2C from the fuel to finalize break-in and went from 29 to 23 mpg. Not kidding.

 

[MrBiglund]

Hi, guys, i have some 2 cycle engine oil by motomaster (canadian tire brand) but it's not synthetic. It says on the back of it that it's low ash formula. I don't have any use for this as i sold the snow blower that i initially bought it for. Would it be wise to use this oil as a gas additive for my 96 grand caravan 3.0L engine, I was planning on adding a couple of ounces every fill up. Just wanta be sure that it won't harm anything, because most of you guys are using synthetic 2cyle oil which this isn't.

 

[mechtech2]

I mix a little ashless 2-stroke oil with my Lucas UCL.
The pump, injectors, valve guides, and upper cylinder benefit from extra lube. Especially with modern gasoline with alcohol in it.
Some 4 stroke motorcycle open class racers use gas mixed with 2-stroke oil at full 2-stroke mixtures! The extra lube keeps the top end and valves from binding and problems. Seems like a last resort, but it works for some of them.
I started using 2-stroke oil in the gas after years of dumping the extra mixed oil/gas from the snowblowers in the cars in spring. It dawned on me that they ran a little smoother .
I only have seat of the pants feelings, and no testing.
Just my $.02 .

 

[MrBiglund]

So, would my low ash formula motomaster non synthetic oil be considered "ashless"? Is it safe to add to gas?