10w30 & low temps

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Acknowledging it is allowed to slip a grade in service, no lower than the CCS temp, which is -25C.


Which would be -13F and still pretty darn cold.
Realistically, most of us in the lower forty eight will never see temperatures cold enough that a 10W grade oil would be a problem.
Even lower overnight temperatures won't usually matter since they typically aren't sustained long enough to chill the oil in the sump to the ambient temperature of an only briefly reached low.
There is also always the option of a sump heating pad, which makes the W grade of the oil irrelevant.
One of these would also be nice on one of our below zero mornings, since warmed oil makes for a warm engine and faster heat to demist the windows and warm the driver without a lot of idling.
You don't see these much here on gassers, but I did see the tell-tale AC hanging out on local gassers on a drive through South Dakota and Montana.


What you saw in North Dakota and Montana was the cord going to the block heater. The vehicles usually come from the factory with a small heating element installed in the position of one of the freeze plugs in the block. Super common in these states.

SF

 

[aquariuscsm]

My Toronado had a factory block heater.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted By: hemitom
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Do you have a diesel or Gas engine. No auto manufacturers have recommended 10w-30 in a gas engine in over 20 years. Use 5W-30 instead. If it’s a Diesel engine you are excused.

Actually Chrysler specs 10w30 in the 3.5 v.6


More detail if you will. Which vehicle and what year?

 

[hemitom]

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: hemitom
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Do you have a diesel or Gas engine. No auto manufacturers have recommended 10w-30 in a gas engine in over 20 years. Use 5W-30 instead. If it’s a Diesel engine you are excused.

Actually Chrysler specs 10w30 in the 3.5 v.6


More detail if you will. Which vehicle and what year?
my 2006 300 and fathers 2007 dodge magnum. Not sure what year they stopped the 10w30 rec in the 3.5 or if it continued until they switched to the 3.6 ??

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted By: hemitom
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Do you have a diesel or Gas engine. No auto manufacturers have recommended 10w-30 in a gas engine in over 20 years. Use 5W-30 instead. If it’s a Diesel engine you are excused.

Actually Chrysler specs 10w30 in the 3.5 v.6


More detail if you will. Which vehicle and what year?
Originally Posted By: hemitom
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Do you have a diesel or Gas engine. No auto manufacturers have recommended 10w-30 in a gas engine in over 20 years. Use 5W-30 instead. If it’s a Diesel engine you are excused.

Actually Chrysler specs 10w30 in the 3.5 v.6


I stand corrected. Yes, I checked a Chrysler 300 from 2006 and yes, the 3.5 specs 10-30. The 2.7 specs 5-20. Strange anomaly. LOL.

 

[Shannow]

Still in their 2017 parts catalogue...
https://www.dealers-mopar.com/resources/pdf/chemical/19590_MoparChemCat2015_v00r01.pdf

 

[hemitom]

Not sure mopars reasoning for choosing a 10w30 over a 5w30, i ran ultra platinum in 10w30 never an issue in our canadian winters.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted By: hemitom


Not sure what year they stopped the 10w30 rec in the 3.5 or if it continued until they switched to the 3.6 ??


The 3.6 from 2016 specs 5-20, but arguably for CAFE gas mileage requirements.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted By: hemitom
Not sure mopars reasoning for choosing a 10w30 over a 5w30, i ran ultra platinum in 10w30 never an issue in our canadian winters.


Depends where in Canada. Inuvik hit -37.6 C. Edmonton had a mild winter and didn’t get below -28 C.

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: hemitom
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Do you have a diesel or Gas engine. No auto manufacturers have recommended 10w-30 in a gas engine in over 20 years. Use 5W-30 instead. If it’s a Diesel engine you are excused.

Actually Chrysler specs 10w30 in the 3.5 v.6


And I believe grades higher than 10w-30 (up to 15w-40/50) are specced in high temp environments around the world. 10w-30 probably won't cut it for countries in the tropics/equator.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted By: Camprunner
What is the lowest outside temperature you feel comfortable running a 10w30 synthetic?



We’re talking about cold weather starts. A 5W-xx, recommended by most manufacturers for almost the last 20 years will allow an easier start than 10W-xx. Cold starts are a leadind cause of engine wear, but that part can be discussed in a seperate thread. . Just say’in.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
What is the lowest outside temperature you feel comfortable running a 10w30 synthetic?



We’re talking about cold weather starts. A 5W-xx, recommended by most manufacturers for almost the last 20 years will allow an easier start than 10W-xx. Cold starts are a leadind cause of engine wear, but that part can be discussed in a seperate thread. . Just say’in.


The wear is predominantly in the warmup phase...oil is flowing, it's there.

About as much in the first 20 minutes as the next few hours, which is where the "75% occurs at startup" comes from in the first instance.

At -10C to -15C, with (for example M1, 0W30, 5W30, or 10W30), you will see no difference at all.

 

[jakewells]

it has 0 to +5 in the mornings here lately and my truck starts fine with 10w30 i see no reason to switch.
car has a slight tick for about 5 seconds in the morning but it has always done that.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
What is the lowest outside temperature you feel comfortable running a 10w30 synthetic?



We’re talking about cold weather starts. A 5W-xx, recommended by most manufacturers for almost the last 20 years will allow an easier start than 10W-xx. Cold starts are a leadind cause of engine wear, but that part can be discussed in a seperate thread. . Just say’in.


The wear is predominantly in the warmup phase...oil is flowing, it's there.

About as much in the first 20 minutes as the next few hours, which is where the "75% occurs at startup" comes from in the first instance.

At -10C to -15C, with (for example M1, 0W30, 5W30, or 10W30), you will see no difference at all.


I don't remember thinking much about oil when I was in the UK, but I remember running 20W50 (Castrol GTX or various own-brands).Think that was pretty usual.

Gets down to about -20 very occaisionally in Scotland, -5 to -10 more often. Dont remember ever being unable to start.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot


We’re talking about cold weather starts. A 5W-xx, recommended by most manufacturers for almost the last 20 years will allow an easier start than 10W-xx. Cold starts are a leadind cause of engine wear, but that part can be discussed in a seperate thread. . Just say’in.



While that should be true, it's clear to anyone that's ever put a bottle of oil in the chest freezer, even at -10F, oils of the same grade, but different brands and types, pour and flow very differently. There is so much variation between oils at very low temperatures that it's quite likely a quality high viscosity synthetic will massively outflow a conventional, low viscosity oil.

The older version of Mobil 1, 15W-50 remained liquid at -20, where as conventional 5W-30 was nearly a gel. That version of M1 used to have a -55F pour point!

 

[tig1]

If you are concerned with cold start performance and you need a 30wt oil, then try 0-30. Best of both worlds.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot


We’re talking about cold weather starts. A 5W-xx, recommended by most manufacturers for almost the last 20 years will allow an easier start than 10W-xx. Cold starts are a leadind cause of engine wear, but that part can be discussed in a seperate thread. . Just say’in.



While that should be true, it's clear to anyone that's ever put a bottle of oil in the chest freezer, even at -10F, oils of the same grade, but different brands and types, pour and flow very differently. There is so much variation between oils at very low temperatures that it's quite likely a quality high viscosity synthetic will massively outflow a conventional, low viscosity oil.

The older version of Mobil 1, 15W-50 remained liquid at -20, where as conventional 5W-30 was nearly a gel. That version of M1 used to have a -55F pour point!



Good point and great idea. Buy a quart of M1 synthetic 5-30, then a quart of your favorite oil. Put them in the freezer over night. Since most freezers are somewhere around 5 degrees F, it approximates the coldest temps we see with the exception of Inuvik, NWT, Canada and Edmonton, Canada. Take them out of the freezer and pour them into plastic cups. See for yourself if you are happy then let it ride.

SF

 

[Snagglefoot]

Weather today. Inuvik. -15 F, Winnipeg -7 F, Edmonton -4 F, Calgary 0 F,

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot


We’re talking about cold weather starts. A 5W-xx, recommended by most manufacturers for almost the last 20 years will allow an easier start than 10W-xx. Cold starts are a leadind cause of engine wear, but that part can be discussed in a seperate thread. . Just say’in.



While that should be true, it's clear to anyone that's ever put a bottle of oil in the chest freezer, even at -10F, oils of the same grade, but different brands and types, pour and flow very differently. There is so much variation between oils at very low temperatures that it's quite likely a quality high viscosity synthetic will massively outflow a conventional, low viscosity oil.

The older version of Mobil 1, 15W-50 remained liquid at -20, where as conventional 5W-30 was nearly a gel. That version of M1 used to have a -55F pour point!



Good point and great idea. Buy a quart of M1 synthetic 5-30, then a quart of your favorite oil. Put them in the freezer over night. Since most freezers are somewhere around 5 degrees F, it approximates the coldest temps we see with the exception of Inuvik, NWT, Canada and Edmonton, Canada. Take them out of the freezer and pour them into plastic cups. See for yourself if you are happy then let it ride.

SF

Except "pour" testing was abandoned decades ago as the cold measurement for "W" gradings, as it proved to be too unreliable for actual engine starting.

If you need to know which oil will tip into your engine faster at 5F, then have at it with the freezer tests.

It was replaced with MRV, which is the ability of the oil to refill the oil pump suction pipework...that measure and that measure alone has a correlation with time to build oil pressure and fill galleries in test engines at extreme cold.

 

[addyguy]

Down to -20C; 10W-30 seems to be fine. It's below -20C that starting gets tough for many oils, save 0W oils.

I've had a vehicle completely lock-up at -29C with 10W-30 conventional in it. I'm not sure how well a 10W-30 full-synthetic would work.

I have 5W-20 full syn in my Soul now, and even below -25C, it still 'sounds' hard to start. Only oil I've had effortless starts right down to -30C was a 0W-20 (Mobil AFE).