I wonder sometimes if the Aztek would have sold better if it would have came out 5 years later. I like the style but I'm in the minority there.
10 worst gm cars???
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Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
The only thing unsafe about the Corvair was people not knowing how to drive! Note: a VW Beetle will do the EXACT SAME THING in a turn! In fact, the Porsche 911 was LEGENDARY for its snap-oversteer!
The Corvair had all the makings of a world class car, by 68 it was even nice to look at. IMO this car was killed off by a nut job who IMO was either paid off by the Japanese or a political party to prevent GM from having a real alternative to the imports for the upcoming planned fuel shortage.
A turbo flat 6 available long before Porsche even had the idea, this car could have been truly amazing by anyone's standard.
It was no worse than a Beetle and not even close to a 911 for snap over steer. The 911 is the grand master of teaching people who think they can drive a lesson in vehicle dynamics and proving they cant especially older turbo models.
Yet no one ever complained much about the imports.
Exactly, you get it. It wasn't any particular car or objective reasons that hurt GM's sales the most. It was the media's agenda and bias. The Corvair was just one example of many. Let's face it, we could go back through history and list years and models of every automakers 10 worst and it'd often look worse but the media isn't interested in doing that.
Quote:
The only thing unsafe about the Corvair was people not knowing how to drive! Note: a VW Beetle will do the EXACT SAME THING in a turn! In fact, the Porsche 911 was LEGENDARY for its snap-oversteer!
The Corvair had all the makings of a world class car, by 68 it was even nice to look at. IMO this car was killed off by a nut job who IMO was either paid off by the Japanese or a political party to prevent GM from having a real alternative to the imports for the upcoming planned fuel shortage.
A turbo flat 6 available long before Porsche even had the idea, this car could have been truly amazing by anyone's standard.
It was no worse than a Beetle and not even close to a 911 for snap over steer. The 911 is the grand master of teaching people who think they can drive a lesson in vehicle dynamics and proving they cant especially older turbo models.
Yet no one ever complained much about the imports.
Exactly, you get it. It wasn't any particular car or objective reasons that hurt GM's sales the most. It was the media's agenda and bias. The Corvair was just one example of many. Let's face it, we could go back through history and list years and models of every automakers 10 worst and it'd often look worse but the media isn't interested in doing that.
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: buster
That's a tough one, so many to choose from. LOL
Winner!
But the first gen Saturn's were good and nice. Then GM'S management and their divine wisdom took over.
GM's management (and money) is what kept Saturn going. Saturn never turned a profit for the company. Given many years, Saturn management couldn't make any money.
GM's two options were to take over Saturn management and try to salvage what they could from the brand or just let it die outright. Throwing money down the Saturn hole wasn't a viable option for th GM board anymore.
Makes what happened to GM pretty funny then really
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: buster
That's a tough one, so many to choose from. LOL
Winner!
But the first gen Saturn's were good and nice. Then GM'S management and their divine wisdom took over.
GM's management (and money) is what kept Saturn going. Saturn never turned a profit for the company. Given many years, Saturn management couldn't make any money.
GM's two options were to take over Saturn management and try to salvage what they could from the brand or just let it die outright. Throwing money down the Saturn hole wasn't a viable option for th GM board anymore.
Makes what happened to GM pretty funny then really
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
The only thing unsafe about the Corvair was people not knowing how to drive! Note: a VW Beetle will do the EXACT SAME THING in a turn! In fact, the Porsche 911 was LEGENDARY for its snap-oversteer!
The Corvair had all the makings of a world class car, by 68 it was even nice to look at. IMO this car was killed off by a nut job who IMO was either paid off by the Japanese or a political party to prevent GM from having a real alternative to the imports for the upcoming planned fuel shortage.
A turbo flat 6 available long before Porsche even had the idea, this car could have been truly amazing by anyone's standard.
It was no worse than a Beetle and not even close to a 911 for snap over steer. The 911 is the grand master of teaching people who think they can drive a lesson in vehicle dynamics and proving they cant especially older turbo models.
Yet no one ever complained much about the imports.
Exactly, you get it. It wasn't any particular car or objective reasons that hurt GM's sales the most. It was the media's agenda and bias. The Corvair was just one example of many. Let's face it, we could go back through history and list years and models of every automakers 10 worst and it'd often look worse but the media isn't interested in doing that.
Tom Mcahill was a hero to me at times...rolling a Renault and praising the result.
http://www.mystarcollectorcar.com/2-features/editorials/177-tom-mccahill-a-god-among-car-guys.html
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
The only thing unsafe about the Corvair was people not knowing how to drive! Note: a VW Beetle will do the EXACT SAME THING in a turn! In fact, the Porsche 911 was LEGENDARY for its snap-oversteer!
The Corvair had all the makings of a world class car, by 68 it was even nice to look at. IMO this car was killed off by a nut job who IMO was either paid off by the Japanese or a political party to prevent GM from having a real alternative to the imports for the upcoming planned fuel shortage.
A turbo flat 6 available long before Porsche even had the idea, this car could have been truly amazing by anyone's standard.
It was no worse than a Beetle and not even close to a 911 for snap over steer. The 911 is the grand master of teaching people who think they can drive a lesson in vehicle dynamics and proving they cant especially older turbo models.
Yet no one ever complained much about the imports.
Exactly, you get it. It wasn't any particular car or objective reasons that hurt GM's sales the most. It was the media's agenda and bias. The Corvair was just one example of many. Let's face it, we could go back through history and list years and models of every automakers 10 worst and it'd often look worse but the media isn't interested in doing that.
Tom Mcahill was a hero to me at times...rolling a Renault and praising the result.
http://www.mystarcollectorcar.com/2-features/editorials/177-tom-mccahill-a-god-among-car-guys.html
I used to throw my grandad's Corvair Spyder around like a crazy man on dirt roads that surrounded our farm. It was a terrific car, spindly 4 speed shifter and all.
I loved it, and if 110 mph down a dirt road didn't kill me I still wonder how it can be so unsafe.
I loved it, and if 110 mph down a dirt road didn't kill me I still wonder how it can be so unsafe.
Originally Posted By: yesthatsteve
Take the Saturn off the list, and replace it with the stupid marketing idea to brand seemingly every Oldsmobile model in the 1980s as the "Cutlass [something]."
And then put those goofy door mounted seat belts on everything, just when Chrysler and Ford marketed air bags as being safer. I had a ciera where the door wore out its hinge pins from the added weight of all the retractors and what not. The B-pillar had a second latch for the top of the door so it would add strength to the shoulder belt loop.
The owners manual even said, attention Canadians, we didn't put this stupid system in your cars. Am sure if I dug through the B pillar plastic I could mount regular seat belts.
Saturn's profit or loss could be a Hollywood accounting thing where one could write it every which way. Maybe selling a 40 MPG SL1 let GM sell a 16 MPG LT1 Impala under CAFE for example and make tons of money on THAT.
Take the Saturn off the list, and replace it with the stupid marketing idea to brand seemingly every Oldsmobile model in the 1980s as the "Cutlass [something]."
And then put those goofy door mounted seat belts on everything, just when Chrysler and Ford marketed air bags as being safer. I had a ciera where the door wore out its hinge pins from the added weight of all the retractors and what not. The B-pillar had a second latch for the top of the door so it would add strength to the shoulder belt loop.
The owners manual even said, attention Canadians, we didn't put this stupid system in your cars. Am sure if I dug through the B pillar plastic I could mount regular seat belts.
Saturn's profit or loss could be a Hollywood accounting thing where one could write it every which way. Maybe selling a 40 MPG SL1 let GM sell a 16 MPG LT1 Impala under CAFE for example and make tons of money on THAT.
I think GM is making another mistake by not selling a Trans Am version of the new Camaro. The conversion kits the aftermarket have come up with to make the Camaro a TA is much better looking than the Camaro. Even though Pontiac is gone I don't see why they couldn't just sell it at a Chevy dealership or a GMC/Buick dealership.
Definitely surprised to see Saturn on the list too.
The blurb is all but entirely wrong also.
They made good power for their weight (the DOHC cars are a blast)
They handle great (4 wheel independent suspension)
and they also got excellent MPG figures.
Build quality they were not up to the likes of 90's Honda's, but they were on par with everything else.
I still miss my 96 SL2 a lot. The car was a blast to drive, it just feels so much more alive than new cars. I keep thinking I want to buy another one even still.
The blurb is all but entirely wrong also.
They made good power for their weight (the DOHC cars are a blast)
They handle great (4 wheel independent suspension)
and they also got excellent MPG figures.
Build quality they were not up to the likes of 90's Honda's, but they were on par with everything else.
I still miss my 96 SL2 a lot. The car was a blast to drive, it just feels so much more alive than new cars. I keep thinking I want to buy another one even still.
Saturn cold starts from space..
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Saturn cold starts from space..
Win!
Saturn cold starts from space..
Win!
not just a bolt, but a RIVET. i thought it was a monday truck. the glove sat there all week end long.
Originally Posted By: Trav
The Corvair had all the makings of a world class car, by 68 it was even nice to look at. IMO this car was killed off by a nut job who IMO was either paid off by the Japanese or a political party to prevent GM from having a real alternative to the imports for the upcoming planned fuel shortage.
A turbo flat 6 available long before Porsche even had the idea, this car could have been truly amazing by anyone's standard.
It's engine, in spite of liberal use of aluminum, still weighed nearly as much as a Ford 170 cu in 6 cylinder and it's radiator. Then there was the fan belt which had to make a 90° turn from the crank to the fan.
...and in spite of this, they're still some of my favorite cars.
The Corvair had all the makings of a world class car, by 68 it was even nice to look at. IMO this car was killed off by a nut job who IMO was either paid off by the Japanese or a political party to prevent GM from having a real alternative to the imports for the upcoming planned fuel shortage.
A turbo flat 6 available long before Porsche even had the idea, this car could have been truly amazing by anyone's standard.
It's engine, in spite of liberal use of aluminum, still weighed nearly as much as a Ford 170 cu in 6 cylinder and it's radiator. Then there was the fan belt which had to make a 90° turn from the crank to the fan.
...and in spite of this, they're still some of my favorite cars.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
yesthatsteve said:
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2025
Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: eljefino
yesthatsteve said:
Disagree with that list strongly.
I'm aware that the GM X-cars were subject to a lot of recalls and 'glitches'...BUT, the basic drivetrain (2.5 I-4 and 2.8 V-6) were very reliable engines that lasted.
Also, if you take those cars as the 'basis' for most of GM front-drive models through the 1980's and 1990's, then these cars were literally the backbone of almost EVERYTRHING GM sold for 20-25 years.
Take the fact that GM sold about 2 million X-Cars alone, and then add in ALL the other cars - Celebrity, Cutlass, Cutlass Calais, Grand Am...that used GM front-drive architecture....that's a LOT of cars and profitability!
The Chevette...yes, it was crude and outdated fro the get-go, but again, it was produced, most likely at a healthy profit, for 13 years...
Saturns WERE revolutionary when they came out, and GM lead the way. Not something to be ashamed of at all.
Dumb article by an ignorant, biased writer.
I'm aware that the GM X-cars were subject to a lot of recalls and 'glitches'...BUT, the basic drivetrain (2.5 I-4 and 2.8 V-6) were very reliable engines that lasted.
Also, if you take those cars as the 'basis' for most of GM front-drive models through the 1980's and 1990's, then these cars were literally the backbone of almost EVERYTRHING GM sold for 20-25 years.
Take the fact that GM sold about 2 million X-Cars alone, and then add in ALL the other cars - Celebrity, Cutlass, Cutlass Calais, Grand Am...that used GM front-drive architecture....that's a LOT of cars and profitability!
The Chevette...yes, it was crude and outdated fro the get-go, but again, it was produced, most likely at a healthy profit, for 13 years...
Saturns WERE revolutionary when they came out, and GM lead the way. Not something to be ashamed of at all.
Dumb article by an ignorant, biased writer.
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Dumb article by an ignorant, biased writer.
Maybe so, but he could probably say the same about your post! Seriously though, I look on these types of articles about the same way I see A LOT of the stuff on forums - that is very little if any fact and predominately the opinion of the writer.
Much like the post of someone earlier in this thread who was praising the Chrysler "K" cars and Caravan/Voyagers!
Dumb article by an ignorant, biased writer.
Maybe so, but he could probably say the same about your post! Seriously though, I look on these types of articles about the same way I see A LOT of the stuff on forums - that is very little if any fact and predominately the opinion of the writer.
Much like the post of someone earlier in this thread who was praising the Chrysler "K" cars and Caravan/Voyagers!
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