I run PP 5w30 in my 09 K24 accord. No change in fuel economy. No real change at all. I bought a ton of it so I'm using it.
10-30 in engine speced for 5-20
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Going from 5W-20 to 10w30 is gonna to rob you of alotta horsepower and fuel mileage.
The oil may even be too thick to squeeze into the bearings. You run the risk of seizing up the engine.
Been reading Dr Haas opinions?
Going from 5W-20 to 10w30 is gonna to rob you of alotta horsepower and fuel mileage.
The oil may even be too thick to squeeze into the bearings. You run the risk of seizing up the engine.
Been reading Dr Haas opinions?
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: trooper001
I want to politely dissagree with the above comment seizing an engine up. Not gonna happen in a billion years.
Hook - line - and sinker!!
But the 30 weight won't get into the nooks & crannies....
Proving your automotive knowledge EH! I have been into many engines and I never have seen a nooks and crannies in an engine . Let alone nooks and crannies oil can't get into or need oil.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: trooper001
I want to politely dissagree with the above comment seizing an engine up. Not gonna happen in a billion years.
Hook - line - and sinker!!
But the 30 weight won't get into the nooks & crannies....
Proving your automotive knowledge EH! I have been into many engines and I never have seen a nooks and crannies in an engine . Let alone nooks and crannies oil can't get into or need oil.
Originally Posted By: Artem
Playing around with different oil weights if what probably caused your oil burn off in the first place.
This opinion sounds like the winner.
Playing around with different oil weights if what probably caused your oil burn off in the first place.
This opinion sounds like the winner.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Proving your automotive knowledge EH! I have been into many engines and I never have seen a nooks and crannies in an engine . Let alone nooks and crannies oil can't get into or need oil.
Proving your automotive knowledge EH! I have been into many engines and I never have seen a nooks and crannies in an engine . Let alone nooks and crannies oil can't get into or need oil.
IMO one can use 10w30 in just about any vehicle spec for 20 or 30 oils without a problem
One size does not fit all.
Everything is application-specific, whether that's a tired engine or one operated outside the "norm."
Viscosities on both sides of optimal will "work" without blowing up the engine but it's silly to stand on a soapbox and claim "works" is anything like optimal. The big question is, "What's optimal?" For the most part, that's what the OE manufacturer has specified.
Overall, it's pretty cheeky for most of us to claim we know better than the people who designed and built our engines. There are exceptions, of course, where those wise men dropped the ball or one of us got lucky. Niether is a particularly common occurrence, despite the undocumented chest pounding you may see here or there.
10W30 in a Honda designed for 5W20, that not too many years back was spec'ed for 5W30, is not a big stretch. The oil formulation may have more to do with a little oil burning than the viscosity. What 5W20 are you using? Nothing wrong with using up whatcha got in this case but a more robust, High Mileage 5W20 or HM 5W30 is likely more appropriate just from the chemistry standpoint.
Whether or not you can see a change in MPG with heavier oil using the relatively inaccurate checking methods at our disposal, it is there nonetheless and over the course of years can add up. It's more an issue with engines that are short hopped and spend a lot of time in the warmup phase... which is the majority of engines these days. With a long, hot run, the MPG change due to one grade change is negligible.
Everything is application-specific, whether that's a tired engine or one operated outside the "norm."
Viscosities on both sides of optimal will "work" without blowing up the engine but it's silly to stand on a soapbox and claim "works" is anything like optimal. The big question is, "What's optimal?" For the most part, that's what the OE manufacturer has specified.
Overall, it's pretty cheeky for most of us to claim we know better than the people who designed and built our engines. There are exceptions, of course, where those wise men dropped the ball or one of us got lucky. Niether is a particularly common occurrence, despite the undocumented chest pounding you may see here or there.
10W30 in a Honda designed for 5W20, that not too many years back was spec'ed for 5W30, is not a big stretch. The oil formulation may have more to do with a little oil burning than the viscosity. What 5W20 are you using? Nothing wrong with using up whatcha got in this case but a more robust, High Mileage 5W20 or HM 5W30 is likely more appropriate just from the chemistry standpoint.
Whether or not you can see a change in MPG with heavier oil using the relatively inaccurate checking methods at our disposal, it is there nonetheless and over the course of years can add up. It's more an issue with engines that are short hopped and spend a lot of time in the warmup phase... which is the majority of engines these days. With a long, hot run, the MPG change due to one grade change is negligible.
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: trooper001
I want to politely dissagree with the above comment seizing an engine up. Not gonna happen in a billion years.
Hook - line - and sinker!!
But the 30 weight won't get into the nooks & crannies....
Another BITOG, expert...
Cold 5w-20 is far thicker than hot 10w30, if what you said were true, the engine would have already seized... Now it would be true that when really cold, the 10w30 may take longer to reach areas at the extreme end of the oil paths, but that would likely be in fractions of seconds... For mid spring through mid fall, the 10w30 is perfectly fine and is by no means a catastrophic choice in the dead of winter...
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: trooper001
I want to politely dissagree with the above comment seizing an engine up. Not gonna happen in a billion years.
Hook - line - and sinker!!
But the 30 weight won't get into the nooks & crannies....
Another BITOG, expert...
Cold 5w-20 is far thicker than hot 10w30, if what you said were true, the engine would have already seized... Now it would be true that when really cold, the 10w30 may take longer to reach areas at the extreme end of the oil paths, but that would likely be in fractions of seconds... For mid spring through mid fall, the 10w30 is perfectly fine and is by no means a catastrophic choice in the dead of winter...
Hey Merkava, we don't even need a pole. These just jump in the boat.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Whether or not you can see a change in MPG with heavier oil using the relatively inaccurate checking methods at our disposal, it is there nonetheless and over the course of years can add up. It's more an issue with engines that are short hopped and spend a lot of time in the warmup phase... which is the majority of engines these days. With a long, hot run, the MPG change due to one grade change is negligible.
I agree with everything you've written, but I'm not so sure about the above. With the function viscosity being >20% higher (hths 3.2 versus 2.6), I don't see how fuel economy won't be affected at full operating temp. I guess it depends on how one defines "significant", though...
To your general point though, I totally agree: the K24 in particular will run on anything, it's a very robust design. That doesn't mean it's optimal. I do find many of the comments on this thread funny though, particularly in light of the comments made to the fellow who put 5W20 in his short-tripped Nissan spec'd for 5W30.... The overwhelming sentiment by many still seems to be "cafe wants to break our engines", and "more is better"...
I think the best course of action would be to pinpoint the source of consumption first. Consumption really isn't that typical on these engines.
Whether or not you can see a change in MPG with heavier oil using the relatively inaccurate checking methods at our disposal, it is there nonetheless and over the course of years can add up. It's more an issue with engines that are short hopped and spend a lot of time in the warmup phase... which is the majority of engines these days. With a long, hot run, the MPG change due to one grade change is negligible.
I agree with everything you've written, but I'm not so sure about the above. With the function viscosity being >20% higher (hths 3.2 versus 2.6), I don't see how fuel economy won't be affected at full operating temp. I guess it depends on how one defines "significant", though...
To your general point though, I totally agree: the K24 in particular will run on anything, it's a very robust design. That doesn't mean it's optimal. I do find many of the comments on this thread funny though, particularly in light of the comments made to the fellow who put 5W20 in his short-tripped Nissan spec'd for 5W30.... The overwhelming sentiment by many still seems to be "cafe wants to break our engines", and "more is better"...
I think the best course of action would be to pinpoint the source of consumption first. Consumption really isn't that typical on these engines.
Have you cleaned the PCV line? Mine stopped consuming oil following the cleaning. 125k miles with 5w20 at 5k oci.
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Whether or not you can see a change in MPG with heavier oil using the relatively inaccurate checking methods at our disposal, it is there nonetheless and over the course of years can add up. It's more an issue with engines that are short hopped and spend a lot of time in the warmup phase... which is the majority of engines these days. With a long, hot run, the MPG change due to one grade change is negligible.
I agree with everything you've written, but I'm not so sure about the above. With the function viscosity being >20% higher (hths 3.2 versus 2.6), I don't see how fuel economy won't be affected at full operating temp. I guess it depends on how one defines "significant", though...
Yeah, it's not a hill I'd die on without a lot of personal study or a good White Paper with controlled tests for study. Consider it more a general reference/observation than anything. I had 5W30 in my mind more than 10W30, though. I'm not sure the MPG difference could be seen within a margin for error. In a detailed study, maybe.
I'm doing this myself. I recently switched from 5W20 to a 10W30 HDEO in a Ford 5.4L V8 w/VCT. So far so good. I'm not doing this for any reason other than to simplify my oil stash across a small fleet of trucks, tractors, car and small engines. Making no claims that it's optimal. The car is a Honda, ironically, a 3.0L V6, but it's got a while left to use up my remaining stocks of 5W30 (which is was originally spec'ed for).
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Whether or not you can see a change in MPG with heavier oil using the relatively inaccurate checking methods at our disposal, it is there nonetheless and over the course of years can add up. It's more an issue with engines that are short hopped and spend a lot of time in the warmup phase... which is the majority of engines these days. With a long, hot run, the MPG change due to one grade change is negligible.
I agree with everything you've written, but I'm not so sure about the above. With the function viscosity being >20% higher (hths 3.2 versus 2.6), I don't see how fuel economy won't be affected at full operating temp. I guess it depends on how one defines "significant", though...
Yeah, it's not a hill I'd die on without a lot of personal study or a good White Paper with controlled tests for study. Consider it more a general reference/observation than anything. I had 5W30 in my mind more than 10W30, though. I'm not sure the MPG difference could be seen within a margin for error. In a detailed study, maybe.
I'm doing this myself. I recently switched from 5W20 to a 10W30 HDEO in a Ford 5.4L V8 w/VCT. So far so good. I'm not doing this for any reason other than to simplify my oil stash across a small fleet of trucks, tractors, car and small engines. Making no claims that it's optimal. The car is a Honda, ironically, a 3.0L V6, but it's got a while left to use up my remaining stocks of 5W30 (which is was originally spec'ed for).
Yeah, the problem with examining the fuel economy/oil viscosity relationship is that you really need to have laboratory testing to determine the results--but then many people will say "it's just in the lab, it's not "real world testing".
The problem with real world anecdotes with respect to oil viscosity and fuel economy is that there are simply too many other factors which dominate the equation. Testing out a 2-3% difference (at most) just isn't easy unless you're doing it under the most controlled circumstances.
The problem with real world anecdotes with respect to oil viscosity and fuel economy is that there are simply too many other factors which dominate the equation. Testing out a 2-3% difference (at most) just isn't easy unless you're doing it under the most controlled circumstances.
Originally Posted By: Artem
Playing around with different oil weights if what probably caused your oil burn off in the first place.
You're kidding, right?
Playing around with different oil weights if what probably caused your oil burn off in the first place.
You're kidding, right?
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Originally Posted By: Artem
Playing around with different oil weights if what probably caused your oil burn off in the first place.
You're kidding, right?
There seems to be a lot of that going around in this thread. Some don't seem to be picking up on it and some aren't kidding.
I don't think anyone here legitimately thinks you're going to see even slightly increased engine wear running a 30-weight oil over a 20-weight oil in a Honda. There are people on this forum running 40-weight oils in these engines without issue.
Originally Posted By: Artem
Playing around with different oil weights if what probably caused your oil burn off in the first place.
You're kidding, right?
There seems to be a lot of that going around in this thread. Some don't seem to be picking up on it and some aren't kidding.
I don't think anyone here legitimately thinks you're going to see even slightly increased engine wear running a 30-weight oil over a 20-weight oil in a Honda. There are people on this forum running 40-weight oils in these engines without issue.
Watch out for the jokesters in this thread
30 weight or 20 weight, we're talking a couple of cst here and there. I personally use 30 weights in 20 weight spec'd cars, mostly because my stash, which I buy on sale, is 95% 30 weights.
If I had two jugs of oil side by side to choose for my corolla, one a 20 weight and one a 30 weight, I pick the 30 weight.
VWB 10w30 is going in the corolla next month.
30 weight or 20 weight, we're talking a couple of cst here and there. I personally use 30 weights in 20 weight spec'd cars, mostly because my stash, which I buy on sale, is 95% 30 weights.
If I had two jugs of oil side by side to choose for my corolla, one a 20 weight and one a 30 weight, I pick the 30 weight.
VWB 10w30 is going in the corolla next month.
it's probably still well within the manufacturer's specs in terms of allowable min/max viscosity of the oil at 212 F. So.....other than providing less protection when not warmed up, and perhaps lower fuel mileage, I doubt there'd be a noticeable difference.
If it were me, I'd stick with 5W20 until you were shown a reason not to. Not placing load and/or high revs on an engine before the oil has warmed to "operating temp" is the key to longevity.
If it were me, I'd stick with 5W20 until you were shown a reason not to. Not placing load and/or high revs on an engine before the oil has warmed to "operating temp" is the key to longevity.
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