1 month update: Life with the Volt

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Originally Posted By: 14Accent
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
30.6 miles on 8 KWH is 3.825 miles per KWH. What is your cost of electricity per KWH? Figure out how many KWH you can purchase with the current price of a gallon of gasoline and multiply that amount of KWH's by 3.825 and you will have the miles per gallon equivalent that you are getting.


About 11 cents per. Premium fuel here (what I was using, what I based my initial math on, and what the Volt uses) is about $3.05 here. 27.5 kWh per gallon give or take.

27.5*3.825= 105.2 MPGe. I'll take it


Wait a minute. 14Accent choses to use premium but the car does not require it. Regular gas in Minneapolis is $2.45 per gallon. 2.45/.11 = 22.2. 22.2 x 3.825 = 85 MPGe. Still pretty fantastic.
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Sounds like a great deal buying used as well. When I built our new "downsized home" in 2017, I had the electricians add a 240V outlet for a Siemens Level II charger if ever I do get a plug-in hybrid car (or BEV).
 
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: 14Accent
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
30.6 miles on 8 KWH is 3.825 miles per KWH. What is your cost of electricity per KWH? Figure out how many KWH you can purchase with the current price of a gallon of gasoline and multiply that amount of KWH's by 3.825 and you will have the miles per gallon equivalent that you are getting.


About 11 cents per. Premium fuel here (what I was using, what I based my initial math on, and what the Volt uses) is about $3.05 here. 27.5 kWh per gallon give or take.

27.5*3.825= 105.2 MPGe. I'll take it


Wait a minute. 14Accent choses to use premium but the car does not require it. Regular gas in Minneapolis is $2.45 per gallon. 2.45/.11 = 22.2. 22.2 x 3.825 = 85 MPGe. Still pretty fantastic.
smile.gif



Actually, the first generation DOES in fact require premium fuel. The 2nd gen does not.
 
Originally Posted By: twoheeldrive
The bottom line is, the Volt is a pure electric car with an engine powered generator.
That's a contradiction in terms. If it's a "pure electric" the word pure means there is no gasoline engine on-board. .. You can say that it operates "like" a pure electric vehicle, but then so does every hybrid ever built, so it doesn't really say much.
---> For example, my C-Max Hybrid (non-plugin) operates with the engine off, on electric motors alone, for up to several miles. Ditto Prius, Fusion Hyb, etc....

Originally Posted By: twoheeldrive
And from Automobile Magazine: ..Chevy Volt Surprise (Automobilemag.com) ..“To trump both the Prius and the Leaf, Volt combines their merits in one handy advanced-technology sedan. It employs cheaper and cleaner electrical energy drawn from the grid. It provides efficient electric drive without the usual compromises. It uses gasoline intelligently in a supporting role. It is a pure electric, a series hybrid, and a parallel hybrid all rolled into one.”
Priuses, C-Maxes, Fusion Hybrids, just about every one of them ever built operate as electric-drive, Series Hybrid, and Parallel Hybrid, and the Volt even uses the same planetary gearset the Priuses, C-Maxes, and Fusions do.
And the Leaf, along with every BEV (real "pure" electric vehicles) dispense completely with a heavy gasoline engine and fuel tank, skipping the weight, complexity, purchase price, and volume an engine+tank takes up. There is no "trumping" going on, only compromises made in every direction.

To understand this better, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80E1fOp95rA for a simplified explanation that skips the planetary gearset stuff.

For engineers like me, or techies, you might want to brave the deeper look at the Prius-like and C-Max-like Volt planetary gearset, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqM3YXEf1js&t=3s

Summary: The Volt can turn the wheels using the engine DIRECTLY, using the motors to merely balance out the kinematics in the planetary gearset just like Toyota and Ford hybrids do and have done for many years before.
 
Originally Posted By:

Wait a minute. 14Accent choses to use premium but the car does not require it. Regular gas in Minneapolis is $2.45 per gallon. 2.45/.11 = 22.2. 22.2 x 3.825 = 85 MPGe. Still pretty fantastic.
smile.gif
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Actually, the first generation DOES in fact require premium fuel. The 2nd gen does not.


OK, thanks for that update. Funny how the math works out. The more expensive the gasoline, the higher the equivalent MPG. Back to 105 MPGe.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: twoheeldrive
The bottom line is, the Volt is a pure electric car with an engine powered generator.
That's a contradiction in terms. If it's a "pure electric" the word pure means there is no gasoline engine on-board. .. You can say that it operates "like" a pure electric vehicle, but then so does every hybrid ever built, so it doesn't really say much.
---> For example, my C-Max Hybrid (non-plugin) operates with the engine off, on electric motors alone, for up to several miles. Ditto Prius, Fusion Hyb, etc....

Originally Posted By: twoheeldrive
And from Automobile Magazine: ..Chevy Volt Surprise (Automobilemag.com) ..“To trump both the Prius and the Leaf, Volt combines their merits in one handy advanced-technology sedan. It employs cheaper and cleaner electrical energy drawn from the grid. It provides efficient electric drive without the usual compromises. It uses gasoline intelligently in a supporting role. It is a pure electric, a series hybrid, and a parallel hybrid all rolled into one.”
Priuses, C-Maxes, Fusion Hybrids, just about every one of them ever built operate as electric-drive, Series Hybrid, and Parallel Hybrid, and the Volt even uses the same planetary gearset the Priuses, C-Maxes, and Fusions do.
And the Leaf, along with every BEV (real "pure" electric vehicles) dispense completely with a heavy gasoline engine and fuel tank, skipping the weight, complexity, purchase price, and volume an engine+tank takes up. There is no "trumping" going on, only compromises made in every direction.

To understand this better, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80E1fOp95rA for a simplified explanation that skips the planetary gearset stuff.

For engineers like me, or techies, you might want to brave the deeper look at the Prius-like and C-Max-like Volt planetary gearset, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqM3YXEf1js&t=3s

Summary: The Volt can turn the wheels using the engine DIRECTLY, using the motors to merely balance out the kinematics in the planetary gearset just like Toyota and Ford hybrids do and have done for many years before.


Ok, so the Volt can couple the engine in one very specific situation to improve efficiency on the highway, but here's the big difference between the Volt and the Plug in Prius and the C-Max: It doesn't have to.

Yes, they all use planetary gears... like every other car with an automatic transmission. The Volt's engine's primary role is to generate electricity for the electric motor after the battery runs down. The Volt's electric motor provides 100% of the power needed for the car. The C-Max and Prius need the engine to reach their top speed.

The Volt is a fully electric car that gets 100% of its power from electricity stored in a battery and powering an electric motor. The Volt has a gasoline powered generator to extend its range, but that doesn't change the fact that it is powered 100% by electricity (which has to be generated somewhere). Think of it as an electric car with an unlimited range.

Here's a quote from a Motor Trend examination of the Volt's drivetrain:
On paper, the Voltec drivetrain has more in common with a Prius (and other Toyota, Ford, or Nissan Altima hybrids) than anyone suspected. Each system employs a single planetary gear set, a gasoline-powered piston engine, and two electric motor/generators. But the way Chevy connects them is entirely different, and—if you ask me—superior.

And here's a link to that article: Unbolting the Chevy Volt to See How it Ticks
 
Any concerns about what repair costs will be on all this tech as these cars age? The attraction for 99% of us is the high mpg numbers, saving the planet isn't even mentioned. Maybe it's because the tech is unfamiliar and cost of ownership will be no different than ICE cars, but one trip to the dealer to replace the dilithium crystal will wipe out all the savings. Maybe getting into a used one cheap and rolling the dice is the smart play? Props to OP for buying one with 120K+ on the clock.
 
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Any concerns about what repair costs will be on all this tech as these cars age? The attraction for 99% of us is the high mpg numbers, saving the planet isn't even mentioned. Maybe it's because the tech is unfamiliar and cost of ownership will be no different than ICE cars, but one trip to the dealer to replace the dilithium crystal will wipe out all the savings. Maybe getting into a used one cheap and rolling the dice is the smart play? Props to OP for buying one with 120K+ on the clock.


I don't have much concern. There's a relatively large market of used parts for these, and the major suspension and brake components are shared with several other GM models. Things do wear out of course, but my plan is to have this car until 200k, which will be just about 5 years for me.

Oh, I 100% bought this car because of mileage. Saving the environment by buying a hybrid is like trying to lose weight on the McDonald's diet. Anyone who thinks they're helping with any major pact should really do the research first.
 
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Originally Posted By: AZjeff
The attraction for 99% of us is the high mpg numbers, saving the planet isn't even mentioned.


I don't own one of these kinds of cars, but if I ever do, the attraction will be in attempting to drive it in the most efficient manner possible to get the highest "score." Hard to resist doing that, what with all the detailed feedback you seem to be able to get from these cars.
 
Have a Volt at work to take to meetings and conferences. The front seat is miserable. Over 6’ tall driving position stinks. The outside bolster is too small and you can feel the plastic adjusters. It is almost brand new so not worn out. Great MPG. The hand electric motor brake is fun. I would never buy one.
 
Originally Posted By: twoheeldrive
Ok, so the Volt can couple the engine in one very specific situation to improve efficiency on the highway, but here's the big difference between the Volt and the Plug in Prius and the C-Max: It doesn't have to.
Wrong, none of them have to. My C-Max very often is all-electric drive, engine off.

Originally Posted By: twoheeldrive
The C-Max and Prius need the engine to reach their top speed.
C-Max and Fusion Hybrids can go 75 MPH on electric drive alone, fast enough for me, and too fast for the Highway Patrol..... so its not really a practical limitation at all.
Originally Posted By: twoheeldrive
Think of it (Volt) as an electric car with an unlimited range.
Except its not. Marketing kool-aid says so. Don't drink it. Delusional to think we can ignore a gasoline engine and fuel tank. Its a hybrid. Sorry.

Originally Posted By: twoheeldrive
Here's a quote from a Motor Trend examination of the Volt's drivetrain:
On paper, the Voltec drivetrain has more in common with a Prius (and other Toyota, Ford, or Nissan Altima hybrids) than anyone suspected. Each system employs a single planetary gear set, a gasoline-powered piston engine, and two electric motor/generators. But the way Chevy connects them is entirely different, and—if you ask me—superior.
The Motor Trend dude is talking about the extra clutches the Volt has that C-Max and Prius don't have. Its really better to have no clutches. It's all in how you view the engineering compromises. Replacing a blown clutch on a Volt is probably a couple of thousand dollars, and other hybrids have no clutches to break. Your choice. Its a more elegant design solution to have no clutches, as commands to each part of the planetary gearset perform the same function (see the Fusion/C-Max Energi plug-in versions for how they do it without clutches too, just like the non-plug-in hybrid versons).

Bottom Line: The Volt is fun. Volt is cool. Volt is expensive. Compare a $33,000 Volt to a $22,000 Fusion Hybrid. That's $11,000 diff folks!!!!!! The Fusion is a bigger car, and gets about the same MPG in hybrid mode as the latest (2nd Gen) Volt. Your carbon footprint will be very low in a Fusion.

Used 1st-gen Volts may indeed be a better value. A decent used one goes for $11,000 total.
In other words, you could actually buy a good used 2012 Volt AND a brand new 2018 Ford Fusion Hybrid for the price of ONE 2018 Volt. Wow.
 
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