1 in 4 have more credit card debt than savings
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Originally Posted By: RamFan
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
My credit union automatically pays off my CC every month in full. Average monthly balance is around $400 (gas /groceries /tolls).
Care to fill me in?
I'm guessing he meant that he has an autopay set up where the balance amount of his card is paid by the funds in his checking/savings account at his credit union.
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
My credit union automatically pays off my CC every month in full. Average monthly balance is around $400 (gas /groceries /tolls).
Care to fill me in?
I'm guessing he meant that he has an autopay set up where the balance amount of his card is paid by the funds in his checking/savings account at his credit union.
I'm sure he meant that. My CU does the same thing.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
My credit union automatically pays off my CC every month in full. Average monthly balance is around $400 (gas /groceries /tolls).
Care to fill me in?
I'm guessing he meant that he has an autopay set up where the balance amount of his card is paid by the funds in his checking/savings account at his credit union.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
My credit union automatically pays off my CC every month in full. Average monthly balance is around $400 (gas /groceries /tolls).
Care to fill me in?
I'm guessing he meant that he has an autopay set up where the balance amount of his card is paid by the funds in his checking/savings account at his credit union.
Glad to say we're in the 55 percent. What little CC debt is 0% and we can pay it off at any time. No car debt. Worked for years to get where we're at and never will go back. If everything keeps rolling should be able to enjoy life a little bit after the boys leave... I've seen too many people wasting away in their older years at jobs they hated.
Originally Posted By: surfstar
When people start trading their iphones for bread, then maybe, we have a problem. When they complain about how broke they are on the internet via a smartphone, laptop, and tablet, I don't buy it.
Truer words have not been spoken. I've been so broke I couldn't afford to eat,yet I found money to drink.
I don't have credit cards because I choose to live off what's in my pocket. I'm never broke although I'm not rich however there is fuel in the vehicles,the kids tummies are full,and I'm racing my mustang and riding my Harley,so it ain't that bad.
If you choose to live off someone else's money prepare to reap what you sew.
When people start trading their iphones for bread, then maybe, we have a problem. When they complain about how broke they are on the internet via a smartphone, laptop, and tablet, I don't buy it.
Truer words have not been spoken. I've been so broke I couldn't afford to eat,yet I found money to drink.
I don't have credit cards because I choose to live off what's in my pocket. I'm never broke although I'm not rich however there is fuel in the vehicles,the kids tummies are full,and I'm racing my mustang and riding my Harley,so it ain't that bad.
If you choose to live off someone else's money prepare to reap what you sew.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I think things are FAR FAR worse, than is being let onto in the mass media.
Also seems to be the case that MANY Americans are dipping into their 401k plans to simply pay ordinary bills.
It's only going to get worse, with wages stagnant or DECREASING when you factor in inflation on everything from gasoline, to food, to other staples.
Many financial analysts like Jim Rodgers believe that a depression and financial collapse is imminent in the next serveral years in the USA.
I agree.
From what I can see around me, there is a mess in the horizon ..Yes you are exactly right.
I think things are FAR FAR worse, than is being let onto in the mass media.
Also seems to be the case that MANY Americans are dipping into their 401k plans to simply pay ordinary bills.
It's only going to get worse, with wages stagnant or DECREASING when you factor in inflation on everything from gasoline, to food, to other staples.
Many financial analysts like Jim Rodgers believe that a depression and financial collapse is imminent in the next serveral years in the USA.
I agree.
From what I can see around me, there is a mess in the horizon ..Yes you are exactly right.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I'm shocked the number is so low. I figured it would be 1 in 4 do have more savings, leaving 3 out of 4 with more debt than savings.
+1
+2
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I'm shocked the number is so low. I figured it would be 1 in 4 do have more savings, leaving 3 out of 4 with more debt than savings.
+1
+2
I could pay off my credit cards with my savings, but then I wouldn't have any savings and would have to use my credit cards in an emergency thus creating a situation where I would have more credit card debt than savings.
It's a tightrope.
It's a tightrope.
Really though, Thats a sorta of antiqued way of looking at things. Think outside the box. Prices go up daily and money is worth less daily. That money you have is savings is actually shrinking, as it sits there and losing power to purchase. So is having debt, so terrible. You can go insane like Dave Ramsey, but he ussually gives bad advice in my opinion. He is too focused on debt free. He puts no wealth on "Stuff", only money in the bank, "Stuff" is apprieating, money is not.As long as you manage the debt, why not use other peoples money. I preach to my kids, protect your credit rating, its worth more than Gold in times like these.
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I think things are FAR FAR worse, than is being let onto in the mass media.
Also seems to be the case that MANY Americans are dipping into their 401k plans to simply pay ordinary bills.
It's only going to get worse, with wages stagnant or DECREASING when you factor in inflation on everything from gasoline, to food, to other staples.
Many financial analysts like Jim Rodgers believe that a depression and financial collapse is imminent in the next serveral years in the USA.
I agree.
I don't. We are in better shape than Europe so it is all relative. We are working our way out of what is the 2nd New York stock market crash just like in 1929. Only this time the government acted to avert it. Ben Bernacke will either go down in history as the worst Fed manager or the most brilliant. We are slowly working our way out of this mess little by little and many will suffer but not half as much as we would have. It is impossible to measure what would have happened but it would have been worse than 1929. If you pay cash for everything...then you are contributing to the US economic stagnation and you are financially going backwards and will suffer massively at the hand of inflation in 10 years. Those who invest in commodities and real property will gain wealth. Those who reinvent small businesses will prosper.
So if you think for a minute you can sit this out on the sidelines...they are moving the goal posts and what was once 10 yards in your economic football game will be 25 yards 10 years from now.
The problem with the assessment you give is that it's predicated on the "fiat money system" we have in place. It's a house of cards, a ponzi scheme, that MUST crumble in the end.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I think things are FAR FAR worse, than is being let onto in the mass media.
Also seems to be the case that MANY Americans are dipping into their 401k plans to simply pay ordinary bills.
It's only going to get worse, with wages stagnant or DECREASING when you factor in inflation on everything from gasoline, to food, to other staples.
Many financial analysts like Jim Rodgers believe that a depression and financial collapse is imminent in the next serveral years in the USA.
I agree.
I don't. We are in better shape than Europe so it is all relative. We are working our way out of what is the 2nd New York stock market crash just like in 1929. Only this time the government acted to avert it. Ben Bernacke will either go down in history as the worst Fed manager or the most brilliant. We are slowly working our way out of this mess little by little and many will suffer but not half as much as we would have. It is impossible to measure what would have happened but it would have been worse than 1929. If you pay cash for everything...then you are contributing to the US economic stagnation and you are financially going backwards and will suffer massively at the hand of inflation in 10 years. Those who invest in commodities and real property will gain wealth. Those who reinvent small businesses will prosper.
So if you think for a minute you can sit this out on the sidelines...they are moving the goal posts and what was once 10 yards in your economic football game will be 25 yards 10 years from now.
The problem with the assessment you give is that it's predicated on the "fiat money system" we have in place. It's a house of cards, a ponzi scheme, that MUST crumble in the end.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I could pay off my credit cards with my savings, but then I wouldn't have any savings and would have to use my credit cards in an emergency thus creating a situation where I would have more credit card debt than savings.
It's a tightrope.
Ever hear of saving some more?
If you have enough in savings, why not pay off half yoiur debt, then save some more, then pay off the other half?
Otherwise youre not actively saving, which is an issue... And it means you are living outside your means, which is a fundamental problem...
I could pay off my credit cards with my savings, but then I wouldn't have any savings and would have to use my credit cards in an emergency thus creating a situation where I would have more credit card debt than savings.
It's a tightrope.
Ever hear of saving some more?
If you have enough in savings, why not pay off half yoiur debt, then save some more, then pay off the other half?
Otherwise youre not actively saving, which is an issue... And it means you are living outside your means, which is a fundamental problem...
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Really though, Thats a sorta of antiqued way of looking at things. Think outside the box. Prices go up daily and money is worth less daily. That money you have is savings is actually shrinking, as it sits there and losing power to purchase. So is having debt, so terrible. You can go insane like Dave Ramsey, but he ussually gives bad advice in my opinion. He is too focused on debt free. He puts no wealth on "Stuff", only money in the bank, "Stuff" is apprieating, money is not.As long as you manage the debt, why not use other peoples money. I preach to my kids, protect your credit rating, its worth more than Gold in times like these.
Prices go up but in theory so do wages. Now we have wal-marted our way into competing with chinese and mexicans, so wages havent necessarily gone up well for many Americans these many years, but our own choices have done it to ourselves.
Assuming you get some sort of raise and have the capability to make more money (MANY do), then over time youre still paying with dollars at effectively the same ratio, just "more zeros" on the end...
I get what youre saying about cheaper money, but in reality most items do not increase in price at a rate of 10, 15 or 20% per year, like the rates that the credit cards charge. That's just silly. Meanwhile, the devaluation of money in any one year isnt more than a few percent.
So arguing about money's value going down, while a long-term fact, is not sufficiently an issue to justify debt, particularly when we are talking credit cards.
I dont necessarily agree with everything that Dave Ramsey says, but he is really right WRT debt for most people. And while he talks savings, he doesnt talk sit on cash in a mattress, in fact, past the emergency fund, which is kept liquid and (unfortunately) low yielding at this point in time, and in fact he advocates pretty heavily for investment in stock and other assets that will appreciate in time and in step with inflation.
SO it is all about building wealth via smart choices with money. Being tethered to payments and very little saved is a way of asking for trouble and not being able to make moves that allow you to build wealth.
Really though, Thats a sorta of antiqued way of looking at things. Think outside the box. Prices go up daily and money is worth less daily. That money you have is savings is actually shrinking, as it sits there and losing power to purchase. So is having debt, so terrible. You can go insane like Dave Ramsey, but he ussually gives bad advice in my opinion. He is too focused on debt free. He puts no wealth on "Stuff", only money in the bank, "Stuff" is apprieating, money is not.As long as you manage the debt, why not use other peoples money. I preach to my kids, protect your credit rating, its worth more than Gold in times like these.
Prices go up but in theory so do wages. Now we have wal-marted our way into competing with chinese and mexicans, so wages havent necessarily gone up well for many Americans these many years, but our own choices have done it to ourselves.
Assuming you get some sort of raise and have the capability to make more money (MANY do), then over time youre still paying with dollars at effectively the same ratio, just "more zeros" on the end...
I get what youre saying about cheaper money, but in reality most items do not increase in price at a rate of 10, 15 or 20% per year, like the rates that the credit cards charge. That's just silly. Meanwhile, the devaluation of money in any one year isnt more than a few percent.
So arguing about money's value going down, while a long-term fact, is not sufficiently an issue to justify debt, particularly when we are talking credit cards.
I dont necessarily agree with everything that Dave Ramsey says, but he is really right WRT debt for most people. And while he talks savings, he doesnt talk sit on cash in a mattress, in fact, past the emergency fund, which is kept liquid and (unfortunately) low yielding at this point in time, and in fact he advocates pretty heavily for investment in stock and other assets that will appreciate in time and in step with inflation.
SO it is all about building wealth via smart choices with money. Being tethered to payments and very little saved is a way of asking for trouble and not being able to make moves that allow you to build wealth.
Im in the 1/4 right now.
I wasnt too bad, probably about equal, until I was out of work for most of '09 and racked up CC debt while emptying out savings. Working at WM, I couldnt get ahead on them.
With my current job, Im finally making progress. Im stashing about $100/week and paying $600-700 down on my debt every month.
With my current job, Im finally making progress. Im stashing about $100/week and paying $600-700 down on my debt every month.
Originally Posted By: clarkflower
We are a nation of morons
Agree.
We are a nation of morons
Agree.
I remember when my kids were still at home and getting credit cards sent to them at 16!
They want you to get used to making payments forever....
They want you to get used to making payments forever....
Many college students get into credit card debt with all the pre approved offers they get in the mail, not to mention all the student debt they take on with loans.
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Doesn't even mention car debt. How many make monthly payments?
Factor that in too.
The average car value negates most of the debt and is essentially secured debt. Yes some folks are upside down however most have near -20% to 0% equity between value of vehicle and the amount left on loan.
Doesn't even mention car debt. How many make monthly payments?
Factor that in too.
The average car value negates most of the debt and is essentially secured debt. Yes some folks are upside down however most have near -20% to 0% equity between value of vehicle and the amount left on loan.
Quote:
1 in 4 have more credit card debt than savings
That number sounds about right. The article is comparing credit card debt to savings, not factoring in other consumer loans such as vehicles, mortgages, second mortgages, etc. It also does not include those with a credit card balance along with some savings.
We have a lot of people who simply don't have the self discipline to manage their personal finances, and are willing to rack up huge amounts of debt while not contributing toward their savings/retirement. Unfortunately those same people will, in a few years, have their collective hands open asking those of us who have been responsible, those of us who have amassed enough savings, to carry them through their retirement. Imagine their surprise when those of us who have managed our finances, those of us who have managed to build some wealth, finally say no, enough is enough.
I see it on here frequently-the "new car fever" captures someone and they feel they need to keep up with the Jones' and they are happy to make perpetual car payments in order to have a shiny new car every few years. There's one kid who has gone through 3 or 4 brand new cars in the last couple of years. He'll never be out of debt, and he'll be one of the folks who look back and wish they would have had a little more financial self discipline. I'm willing to bet he'll never be financially secure and debt free. Sadly, people like that tend to be the norm rather than the exception.
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Doesn't even mention car debt. How many make monthly payments?
Factor that in too.
The average car value negates most of the debt and is essentially secured debt. Yes some folks are upside down however most have near -20% to 0% equity between value of vehicle and the amount left on loan.
That's debt on a depreciating asset, and it's not building real wealth.
1 in 4 have more credit card debt than savings
That number sounds about right. The article is comparing credit card debt to savings, not factoring in other consumer loans such as vehicles, mortgages, second mortgages, etc. It also does not include those with a credit card balance along with some savings.
We have a lot of people who simply don't have the self discipline to manage their personal finances, and are willing to rack up huge amounts of debt while not contributing toward their savings/retirement. Unfortunately those same people will, in a few years, have their collective hands open asking those of us who have been responsible, those of us who have amassed enough savings, to carry them through their retirement. Imagine their surprise when those of us who have managed our finances, those of us who have managed to build some wealth, finally say no, enough is enough.
I see it on here frequently-the "new car fever" captures someone and they feel they need to keep up with the Jones' and they are happy to make perpetual car payments in order to have a shiny new car every few years. There's one kid who has gone through 3 or 4 brand new cars in the last couple of years. He'll never be out of debt, and he'll be one of the folks who look back and wish they would have had a little more financial self discipline. I'm willing to bet he'll never be financially secure and debt free. Sadly, people like that tend to be the norm rather than the exception.
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Doesn't even mention car debt. How many make monthly payments?
Factor that in too.
The average car value negates most of the debt and is essentially secured debt. Yes some folks are upside down however most have near -20% to 0% equity between value of vehicle and the amount left on loan.
That's debt on a depreciating asset, and it's not building real wealth.
Bankruptcy broke this cycle for a relative.
Some how after two years they got a decent interest rate on a home refi (government program), makes me cringe too. They lost about $80k of CC debt and home equity loans. Still live in same home but starting a day 0 of 30 year mortgage. They drained their retirement also.
They have CC with only a $500/limit each thankfully.
However I noticed all the kids(3) have the "free" iPhone's so cycle continues. The parents can barely afford the required tough cases so they don't get smashed phones.
Some how after two years they got a decent interest rate on a home refi (government program), makes me cringe too. They lost about $80k of CC debt and home equity loans. Still live in same home but starting a day 0 of 30 year mortgage. They drained their retirement also.
They have CC with only a $500/limit each thankfully.
However I noticed all the kids(3) have the "free" iPhone's so cycle continues. The parents can barely afford the required tough cases so they don't get smashed phones.
I have not a dime in credit card debt!
However, student loans keep me from saving any money (and putting on weight!)
However, student loans keep me from saving any money (and putting on weight!)
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