3 ARX cycles, didn't do much, bummer..

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mdocod

mdocod

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Jul 6, 2005
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Colorado, US
I was hesitant to even post this, because around here this stuff is the holy grail second to GC. I bought like 6 bottles of ARX about 2 years ago and have treated 2 cars with it over that time.

here's an original thread from when things got started
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post291228


My little 2001 swift, which I previously posted results on
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post303465
that thread links to the first ARX treatment results. I also did a second treatment, and followed up with pictures. That thread was filled with bickering among people and from what I can tell, must have been deleted. (from my angle it feels like it might have been deleted because a believer in ARX might not want a thread floating around with proof that it might NOT work) but I highly doubt that is the case, I attribute it to the posts in the thread. I ask that yall keep it civil this time around, so we can have some useful discussion on this matter.

anyways... I finished up the 3rd full treatment, which got a heavy duty dose, (a full bottle ARX, instead of just 8oz), and ran it in the oil a little longer, (I think I left it in about 2500 miles)

This third treatment was actually finished up around September of last year, I took picts, but never got around to posting results. I'm kinda hesitant to show these results because I feel like I'm gona get flamed for doing something wrong (didn't do anything wrong BTW, used dino, used correct change intervals, didn't work, tried a reasonable alternative to beef up the 3rd treatment) I was already grilled on the last follow-up for methods, but since that was deleted (as far as I can tell) I can't prove it, lol...

Ok picts
before ARX
100_1494.jpg

after 1st treatment
after12.jpg

after 2nd treatment
100_2017.jpg

after 3rd treatment
100_2041.jpg



As I recall I used castrol GTX 5w30 for the first clean, and rinse, then I think it was castrol GTX 5w30 again for the second treatment, which I think I rinsed with 10W30 GTX and then used 5w30 havoline for the 3rd clean, and 10W30 havoline for the 3rd rinse. (this is from memory, it has been awhile, But I do know 100% that all clean and rinse cycles were done with common dino oils that should have been OK per the ARX instructions)

Since then, I did a run with delo-400 and a qt of MMO about 2500 miles, no change in cleanliness,
and right now I have a mix of aprox 2qts delo 400, 16oz seafoam, 16oz ATF, and 3/4qt havoline 5w30. have had that in for about 1000 miles, plan to change soon, I see no difference under there..

I want to try Bobs nuetra/ATF recommendation that we discussed around the time of the last update on this engine, but I can't find any sources to buy from around here...any suggestions on where to order it would be great, I really want to give that a try.
 
Auto RX on that engine is like a band aid for cancer. Auto RX is great stuff but that engine has past the point any additive will clean. That engine needs a big vat of acid to clean that stuff off.
 
Don't bother with anything.

If engine is running well and in good state of tune, just change oil/filter every 3k/3mo and keep driving.

Sludge is easy to form. In areas of poor oil flow, it'll just buildup and buildup. Because there is poor oil flow under your valve cover, you won't be able to clean it.
If you want to remove the sludge, you'll need to increase oil contact with sludge. Visualize parts or pressure washers. Its not possible to clean every engine unless you install your own oil pressure jets aimed at various areas under the valve cover!

Your engine isn't the only engine that has poor oil spray/splash cleaning ability. I can think of several other engines that can easily build up crud 'caused by negligence or mechanical problems. But, no amount of maintenance will remove that crud quickly.

As long as the oil flow passages are clean(and they should be by now), the engine will run forever.

Keep an eye on PCV and that it doesn't become clogged and vents well.
Make sure thermostat is working and that engine comes up to temp quickly.

Are there any known mechanical issues with the Swift engine family?

Is there a room for a larger oil filter? Anything to increase oil capacity should help prevent additional buildup. 3/4" filter options are plenty.

If you have any ARX leftover, consider a maintenance dose indefinitely with all future maintenance. It can't hurt and you already have the stuff.
 
Pity you didn't take before/after compression tests. Splash lubed areas like those in your picture won't see much cleaning. Pressure fed areas do. I think it looks prety good really
 
I go with undummy's comments.

IMHO with that much varnish+sludge on your swift's valve train (wow! That's quite some neglect!! Check/replace PCV valve and thermostat first with factory unit before you proceed), I would say something that may rain on your parade--- you need manual cleaning man!

These equates to years of buildup and OCI neglect and this is not something that you can just simply run something overnite (or 3 doses of AutoRx) and expect it to be sparkling clean afterwards. If you are serious about restoring this engine, consider getting a blunt slot type screwdriver and scrape off the large chunks off of the camshaft bearing cover area and the oil pool area and then soak the cylinder head with paint thinner (be prepared to have all your seals replaced for paint thinner will swell the seals badly causing serious leaks afterwards). Scrub it with a brush until it's clean.

Moreover, also consider pulling your oil pan to inspect for oil-related deposits and clogged oil pickup screen.

After doing all those things (might as well replace the water pump and t-belt while you are at it) and then start fresh with some Wallymart ST3614 with GTX, Havoline or Chevron 10W30. Be sure to replace the oil filter every 500 miles to prevent any serious issues and watch your oil pressure idiot light from coming on.

In all fairness, these kind of deposits require some serious solvent or something caustic to clean it out. I'm not hesitant to say that such AutoRx is hopeless in this regard.

Mind if I save these pics to share with my good old Suzuki dealership mech buddies? (they will get a shock out of this fer shure!)
 
I have a question, MDOCOD. What are your driving habits?

Do you always drive the same? Short trips? Long trips? Low/high rpm's?

I had a fabulous treatment with my V10 Ford, but I only had a lot of varnish. Granted, it wasn't sludged up like yours. But I took as many highway trips as I could get in and kept things lively in the engine bay. Now, under filler cap looks as clean as if I just took things out of the dishwasher.

I expect getting some rpm's for long periods may assist you in your Quest for Clean. If you're already doing that, well, dang...
dunno.gif
 
How is the PCV valve system and other systems? The “believers” will say that the ARX actually cleaned a whole bunch of the stuff off, but it was the PCV valve system or something else that kept the buildup coming. I would suggest an acid vat on the head, and a cleaner for the rest of the engine. It may be that the rest of the engine is clean, and the head didn’t get any oil flow. If you are dissatisfied with the results, email Frank for a refund. Depending on what the inside of my filter looks like on my current rinse, I may do the same.
 
After reading more of the prior postings, it looks like you don't take long trips or beat it like a rented mule. It would help it along if you did.

I know it's a hardship to be FORCED to mash the gas, but you might get too used to it. The good part is, you surely wouldn't use as much gas as I did in my truck!
 
I'd stop the ARX and run some synthetics at 2k mile OCI's and turn any short trips into long ones....right after you change your PCV and air filter...that poor engine.
 
I think this engine is sludged up so badly that probably nothing other than taking the engine apart and physically cleaning it would work. Since you have so many bottles of Auto-RX maybe keep doing cleanings and see what happens. But I think this engine is probably beyond anything but a physical cleaning. If you tried Neutra it probably would not do anything better but you could try it.

I am a big believer in Auto-RX myself but let me tell you if I were to find out Auto-RX does not really work I would stop using it right now. A new car or truck engine, given reasonable care and quality oil changed at reasonable intervals, can last for a long time and a lot of miles. There have been a few poorly designed engines that were sludge prone.

I do not give 100% faith in anything. I will switch oil brands if I am not happy with the oil brand I am using. I will switch oil filter brands if I don't like the oil filter brand I am using.

Auto-RX is not magic. It seemed to work for me after a small seal leak stopped after I did an Auto-RX cleaning. Terry, the oil analysis guy, said that Auto-RX works. I figure he knows something. Various people at this website including mechanics have been impressed with the product.

Do I know for a fact that Auto-RX worked for me? No, I can't say that. I can say only that the seal leak stopped.

If you used a product like, say, an engine flush, in that engine it might get a whole lot worse. All of that sludge being removed at one time.
 
It actually looks like it is starting too work. Remember with that much junk if you break it all up you will plug a filter and flow a bunch of #@$%! through your engine. Follow the instructions to letter and try a couple of more cycles.

I have not used it myself but it looks like it is working. You can see the cam bearing cap bolts.

I had a 90 swift that was clean ( I actually adjusted the valves my self once in a while helped it get really good mileage.)at 65K but it spent most of its life on Mobil1. Couple runs of Castrol Syntec back in the day when it came out but mostly Mobil1 then Redline (when it was RED).
 
Quote:

IMO those are great results for that much sludge.-DINO_NO

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actually, there are a few spots that look a little bit cleaned up on top of some of the cam towers, but that was mostly from be wiping up a little bit with a paper towel when I was adjusting valves. (when I knocked stuff loose by hand I would try to wipe up loose pieces so they wouldn't go floating away)

Quote:

in your previous post you said you bought 6 bottles, just keep going.. and check your filters

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I actually have only 1/2 bottle left, I used the other ~2-3ish bottles in my rodeo, rodeo got 2 cycles on the engine, and a little in the tranny, T-case, and rear diff, all of which I believe benefited from the treatment. The rodeo gains seat-of-the-pants power. I'm 100% confident of this. And looking down the fill hole between treatments I saw things "lighten up" in color, it was always a pretty clean engine, bought it with 144,000 miles and did the treatments around the 170k range. Had the valve covers off back around 190k and it was spotless under there. looked like a brand new engine, even though it now has ~197,000 on it.

on the subject of the filter, I took apart almost every filter throughout the cleanings and rinsing (and have the ones I didn't get around to sitting in the garage waiting, if I get curious)... but NONE of them had and substantial amount of sludge in them. I took apart a few filters before ARX to get a feel for normal contamination, which was minor, with ARX in there I would say the pleats of the filter were about 10% loaded with some gunk, nothing major at all. I'll see if I can find some picts... I know I took a few..

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Quote:

If engine is running well and in good state of tune, just change oil/filter every 3k/3mo and keep driving.-UnDummy

Click to expand...


The engine actually runs beautifully and gets run hard and gets sticker fuel economy nearly every tank. The flow of oil to all critical areas appear to be perfectly open, the buildup is only in areas that get small amounts of splash up top. The drain holes in the head are completely open, no gunk there, looking up into the oil pan through the drain hole with a flashlight reveals nothing but clean shiny metal. I can see the Oil pickup screen, and it is clean and shiny, no gunk there. I think ARX probably worked it's magic down there some.

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Quote:

Wow!!!.....for what you paid for that AXR,,i'd be #@$%! off.-daman

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I'm not really #@$%! off at all to be honest. Buying a product like this I knew from the get go it may or may not work. I am a believer in ARX, it just didn't clean everything I was hoping it would. It did great in my truck. And I know anything it did do down in the swift engine (that maybe I can't see) is probably worth the cost. I would scrub this engine up by hand with some karo, but doing so would not give us a chance to see a product do it. I'm sortof treating this engine like an experiment, a guinea pig to try stuff.

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Quote:

wow! That's quite some neglect!! Check/replace PCV valve and thermostat first with factory unit before you proceed)-Quest

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PCV has been replaced like 3 times in the last 20,000 miles, I have also been cleaning out the PCV pipes, and making sure the EGR is functioning. Coolant seems to be coming up to temp no problem, I have no reason at this point to think the thermostat has anything wrong. It comes up to temp quickly in the morning, and stays perfectly level all day at just above half way on the temp readout. Vehicle has about 80,000 miles on it. I'm going to replace a LOT of stuff when I get to ~90-100k (ball joints, tie rod ends, wheel bearings, front pads, brake fluid, tranny fluid, timing belt, water pump, plugs, wires, struts, possibly control arm bushings, serpentine belt, etc etc etc, routine 90k tune-up IMO)...

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I have a question, MDOCOD. What are your driving habits?

Do you always drive the same? Short trips? Long trips? Low/high rpm's?-Mr Incredible

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Driving habits are pizza delivery mostly, I should point out, that the sludge was there when I bought this vehicle used with 54,000 miles on it. I assume that the oil I drained from it when I got it home was probably the vehicles 2nd oil change. (the dealer probably did the vehicles 1st oil change when they took it in on trade at 54,000 miles). I paid half what it was worth, knew I was buying an abused vehicle. I figured with miles under 60,000, no matter what the previous owner did, it still has $2000 worth of car left in it.(about what I paid for it, blue book at time was about $4700, dealer was asking over 5k)

So when I drive it (most of the miles since I bought it), it gets warmed up on the 15 mile drive to work. And might cool off a bit till I start delivering for lunch, at which point it pretty much stays hot all day, sits for 5-15 minutes at a time off then started back up again on the road. I'd say it sees 25% HARD driving, where it's close to WOT to get up to speed on the main thorougfair there near work, and about 50% medium driving with more normal relaxed throttle positions, and about 25% very gentle driving, cruising through neighborhoods keeping speed around 25, no major throttle, I just ease it around neighborhoods. regardless of my driving... it was this way before I started driving it, so the problem was probably a young female driver who was totally clueless about OIL, probably didn't even know her car needed oil.

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Quote:

If you are dissatisfied with the results, email Frank for a refund. Depending on what the inside of my filter looks like on my current rinse, I may do the same. -Shaman

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If ARX were a BIG company, like penzoil, STP, Mobil 1, or something, and I had taken faith in a product from them to clean my engine, I might consider asking for a refund. Frank is running a small operation, I think he has a great product, I would never ask him for a refund. I think he is a great guy (sometimes comes across kinda bitter/sarcastic in posts around here, more so lately) but defending a product will do that to people, lol. I won't ask for refunds from when I feel like it will hit someone personally. BIG massive companies can afford to make me happy till the last drop and I won't feel guilty for making them do so, lol. Even then I don't usually bother.

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Quote:

After reading more of the prior postings, it looks like you don't take long trips or beat it like a rented mule. It would help it along if you did.-Mr Incredible

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Quote:

why not just run a bottle of ARX for 4k mile cycles? can't hurt that thing.... rsylvstr

Click to expand...


The engine gets worked pretty hard IMO, harder than MOST people out there would work an engine... keep in mind this is a 78HP engine, at 6500 foot elevation, moving a 2,000lb load. It's working for everything it's worth 25% of the time, and something close to that another %30-50 of the time.. I'm the type of driver who, even in a dog like this, tends to be "out in front" of the crowd from a light. Even still, it gets 32-34MPG (which is what the automatic version is supposed to get according to the sticker in town)

I ran the 3rd cycle with MORE than the recommended dose for LONGER than recommended. So I have already tried increasing exposure time and concentration, in hopes of improving results.


I think I covered most of the points brought up, lol.

(I already had to explain ALL THIS the last time I updated, but remember, it was ALL DELETED) if you are an admin and have access to deleted posts, please yank my old thread from the trash bin, would really be handy right now.
 
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