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#80418 - 04/27/04 06:22 AM GM 6094M standard
Marius Offline


Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 51
Loc: Midwest
Anybody knows where I can find info regarding what brands of motor oil meet the GM standard 6094M? Havoline, Mobil or Citgo websites say nothing about meeting this standard, but Castrol mentions it. Or, is it a fact that all API SL / ILSAC GF-3 oils meet this standard? Can you refer me to a website that answers my question(s)?

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#80419 - 04/27/04 08:35 AM Re: GM 6094M standard
XS650 Offline



Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 12385
Loc: Northern CA
Google GM 6094M. I got 382 hits, many of which were oils from several companies.

Castrol (two varities), Amsoil, Kendal Conocophillips and Petroblend on the first page alone.

Google is your friend.

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#80420 - 04/27/04 07:01 PM Re: GM 6094M standard
Marius Offline


Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 51
Loc: Midwest
Thank you! I also tried to find out more about this standard on the GM's website, but there is nothing there... It seems weird to me that my Vibe's owner manual recommends engine oil that meets this standard, instead of recommending an oil that meets a certain API classification. It is very confusing.

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#80421 - 04/27/04 07:13 PM Re: GM 6094M standard
tgharch Offline


Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 40
Loc: Oklahoma
For a description of this requirement check here link

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#80422 - 04/27/04 07:32 PM Re: GM 6094M standard
ekpolk Offline
The Regenerator


Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 8881
Loc: Pensacola FL
Marius:

As I'm sure you know, your Vibe is a thinly disguised Toyota Matrix (personally, I think it looks better than the 'trix, but that's JMO). I just took a look at the Matrix Owner's Manual on line, and despite it having the same engines, there's no mention in the Toyota manual that I saw of the 6094 standard. Just 5w-30 API-SL. From the link in the previous post, it seems that the GM standard relates to cold temp pumpability. I have a hard time envisioning any 5w-30 having a realistic issue with pumpability, but who knows...

EDIT: My original search was only of the 2003 Matrix manual. I just reran it against the 04 and 05 manuals as well. Sitll no reference to the GM standard -- just API-SL 5w-30.

[ April 28, 2004, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: ekpolk ]

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#80423 - 04/27/04 07:56 PM Re: GM 6094M standard
XS650 Offline



Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 12385
Loc: Northern CA
quote:
Originally posted by ekpolk:
Marius:

EDIT: My original search was only of the 2003 Matrix manual. I just reran it against the 04 and 05 manuals as well. Sitll no reference to the GM standard -- just API-SL 5w-30.

Do you have an online souce for Toyota manuals, or do you have a complete set of Matrices lined up in your garage? [Smile]

[ April 28, 2004, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: XS650 ]

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#80424 - 04/27/04 08:01 PM Re: GM 6094M standard
haley10 Offline


Registered: 12/28/03
Posts: 2768
Loc: Tn
Hmmm, GM must see a problem with some 5W-30's then. Apparently it's possible to have the Starburst and meet viscosity spec. and still have inadequate cold flow properties.

I don't think they did it just to confuse.

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#80425 - 04/27/04 08:41 PM Re: GM 6094M standard
ekpolk Offline
The Regenerator


Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 8881
Loc: Pensacola FL
quote:
Originally posted by XS650:
Do you have an online souce for Toyota manuals, or do you have a complete set of Matrices lined up in your garage? [Smile]

That would be cool to have such a garage, but no such luck. Although I'm pretty happy with my V-6 Camry, that Matrix XRS, with 180 hp will run like a greyhound with its tail on fire, if you're willing to wind it up. [Big Grin]

Seriously, yes, I have all of it online. It's at techinfo.toyota.com. To my mind, far superior to the old paper pubs. For one price ($10/day, $50/month, or $350/yr) you get the same content, but it's searchable, printable, and downloadable, and includes access to all service pubs, bulletins, tech training docs, owners manuals, service scheds, etc for all years of all Toyotas, Lexi, and Scions. Fantastic resource and fun to play with too. Hint: you can find and save a lot of pertinent stuff in 30 days. . .

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#80426 - 04/27/04 08:49 PM Re: GM 6094M standard
G-MAN Offline


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 8869
Loc: SC
quote:
Originally posted by haley10:
Hmmm, GM must see a problem with some 5W-30's then. Apparently it's possible to have the Starburst and meet viscosity spec. and still have inadequate cold flow properties.

I don't think they did it just to confuse.

They did it because GF-4 was not out in time for 2004 model year vehicles. The GF-4 cold pumping specs will be the same as the GM 6094M specs. In effect, all GM was doing here is saying that for 2004 GM vehicles the oil used needs to meet the upcoming GF-4 cold pumping specs.

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#80427 - 04/28/04 09:24 AM Re: GM 6094M standard
XS650 Offline



Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 12385
Loc: Northern CA
quote:
They did it because GF-4 was not out in time for 2004 model year vehicles. The GF-4 cold pumping specs will be the same as the GM 6094M specs. In effect, all GM was doing here is saying that for 2004 GM vehicles the oil used needs to meet the upcoming GF-4 cold pumping specs. [/QB]
I just compare SAE J300 1993 to SAE J300 1999.

Sometime between 193 and 1999, SAE roughly double the allowable viscosity in the two cold viscosity tests. They did require the tests be done at 5 degrees lower temperatures, so it's not twice as lenient as the 1993 spec. SAE is a good organization, so I suspect it was done to make the tests more in line with what engines actually need on the ragged edge of cold starts.

Eyeballing GM 6094M, it looks like it's in between the old and new SAE J300. It uses the new SAE J300 temps but requires thinner viscosity, but not as thin as the old SAE spec.

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#80428 - 04/28/04 09:27 AM Re: GM 6094M standard
Marius Offline


Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 51
Loc: Midwest
Ekpolk, I aggree with you that any 5W-30 API SL oil will do fine in our engines. In fact, Toyota knows better than GM what's good or bad for this engine. Of course, I don't expect Toyota to use a GM standard for their engines... My only concern is not to void the warranty by using an oil that does not meet this standard.

[ April 28, 2004, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Marius ]

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#80429 - 04/27/04 11:33 PM Re: GM 6094M standard
G-MAN Offline


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 8869
Loc: SC
quote:
Originally posted by XS650:
Sometime between 1993 and 1999, SAE roughly double the allowable viscosity in the two cold viscosity tests. They did require the tests be done at 5 degrees lower temperatures, so it's not twice as lenient as the 1993 spec. SAE is a good organization, so I suspect it was done to make the tests more in line with what engines actually need on the ragged edge of cold starts.

The change came with SL/GF-3. The current J300 specs are actually tougher than the previous because of the lower temp requirements.

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#80430 - 04/28/04 03:38 AM Re: GM 6094M standard
TC Offline


Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 1638
Loc: California
A quick check of about a dozen firms' oil spec sheets I have show the following oils meet GM 6094M (depending on the weight chosen), although I'm sure other common oils may as well:

Valvoline All Climate
Kendall GT-1 (conventional)
Kendall GT-1 Synthetic
Chevron Delo 400

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#80431 - 04/28/04 07:25 AM Re: GM 6094M standard
ekpolk Offline
The Regenerator


Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 8881
Loc: Pensacola FL
quote:
Originally posted by Marius:
Ekpolk, I aggree with you that any 5W-30 API SL oil will do fine in our engines. In fact, Toyota knows better than GM what's good or bad for this engine. Of course, I don't expect Toyota to use a GM standard for their engines... My only concern is not to void the warranty by using an oil that does not meet this standard.

No worry there. Under the Moss-Magnuson Warranty Act, GM would have to prove that your use of an unapproved oil actually caused the defect at issue before they can get away with "voiding" a warranty claim. There is absolutely no such thing as "voiding" your warranty in advance. If you put molasses in your crankcase, yeah, they could successfully deny your broken engine claim, but they'd still have to fix your broken door handle and inoperative CD player since they're obviously not caused by the molasses-filled engine. Seriously though, GM wouldn't have a prayer of winning if you use Toyota's spec oil in a Toyota-built engine, irrespective of the added GM requirement.

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#80432 - 09/01/04 09:29 AM Re: GM 6094M standard
TheFuror Offline


Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 374
Loc: Northern California (Vacaville...
quote:
Originally posted by Marius:
Anybody knows where I can find info regarding what brands of motor oil meet the GM standard 6094M? Havoline, Mobil or Citgo websites say nothing about meeting this standard, but Castrol mentions it. Or, is it a fact that all API SL / ILSAC GF-3 oils meet this standard? Can you refer me to a website that answers my question(s)?

The GM6094 standard deals with low temp pumpability that is better than the SAE standard. It only concerns itself with 5w-30 and 10w-30.

All Castrol motor oils, Kendall GT-1 and M1 meet this standard. If you have any doubts wheter the oil you want to use meets this, simply call them up and I expect they will say it does.

[Cheers!]

Bob W.

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