BMW USA: New list of recommended oils

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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
I didn't even know it existed. The tds shows the approvals are there. Is it available anywhere.

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140007321581_201208130853.pdf

The one you linked to does not exist, as far as I know.

The one that does exist is another PU 0w-40 SRT and it does not carry any Euro specs.

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140007304050_201207271338.pdf




Shell Helix Ultra 0w40 is BMW LL-01, but there's no way to get it in NAM.

Technical datasheet
 
Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
The PDF files has a date of Aug/2013, so it means BMW just updated the list.

Weird how BMW 5W30 is suddenly okay for even the M cars? I guess I'm a prophet or some sort.


Different engines. All the new M cars are turbos.
 
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
The PDF files has a date of Aug/2013, so it means BMW just updated the list.

Weird how BMW 5W30 is suddenly okay for even the M cars? I guess I'm a prophet or some sort.


Different engines. All the new M cars are turbos.



All new BMWs are turbos, except the 128i.
 
Originally Posted By: Mark_Walk
Does LL-01 approved oil offer any other benefits other than long life? Could you run a regular SN rated 30 or 40 wt oil in a BMW if changing the oil at a normal 7,000 mile OCI?

Yes IF you know how to read an oil spec sheet. LL01 sets the operating viscosity, HTHS of at least 3.5, and more. Most people can't hence the LL01 spec.
 
Redline 0w40 has a decent spec.
API Service Class SN/SM/SL/CF
Viscosity Grade SAE 0W40
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 15.4
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 86
Viscosity Index 190
CCS Viscosity, Poise, @*C 57@-35
Pour Point, °C -60
Pour Point, °F -76
Flash Point, °C 230
Flash Point, °F 446
NOACK Evaporation Loss,1hr @ 482°F (250°C), % 9
HTHS Vis, cP @150°C, ASTM D4741

But since my '13 m3 will be under warranty for a while I don't think I can deviate
 
Originally Posted By: 330indy
Redline 0w40 has a decent spec.
API Service Class SN/SM/SL/CF
Viscosity Grade SAE 0W40
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 15.4
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 86
Viscosity Index 190
CCS Viscosity, Poise, @*C 57@-35
Pour Point, °C -60
Pour Point, °F -76
Flash Point, °C 230
Flash Point, °F 446
NOACK Evaporation Loss,1hr @ 482°F (250°C), % 9
HTHS Vis, cP @150°C, ASTM D4741

But since my '13 m3 will be under warranty for a while I don't think I can deviate
IIRC the funny thing about Redline is that they recommended their 5w30 for tracking the M.
 
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: 330indy
Redline 0w40 has a decent spec.
API Service Class SN/SM/SL/CF
Viscosity Grade SAE 0W40
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 15.4
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 86
Viscosity Index 190
CCS Viscosity, Poise, @*C 57@-35
Pour Point, °C -60
Pour Point, °F -76
Flash Point, °C 230
Flash Point, °F 446
NOACK Evaporation Loss,1hr @ 482°F (250°C), % 9
HTHS Vis, cP @150°C, ASTM D4741

But since my '13 m3 will be under warranty for a while I don't think I can deviate
IIRC the funny thing about Redline is that they recommended their 5w30 for tracking the M.


Yep, because it's a fairly heavy 5w30 and should be extremely shear stable.

We know that the TWS has a virgin HTHS of 5.2 but tends to shear down to 4.5ish quickly, then stabilize. Even that is quite heavy for a street car.
 
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
The vast majority of owners don't know what LL-01 is or even the distinction between dino and synthetic. By specifying a 5W-30 there must be a lot of BMW's out of warranty running around on dino and M1 5W-30 type oils.



I don't think many people are actually putting any 5W-30 oils in their BMW's. Certainly no independant BMW or euro shop would.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
As an update, it looks like even BMW NA isn't giving clear answers on how to read that document:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14852375&postcount=60

The current interpretation on that website seems to be that you can only use BMW-branded LL-01 oils, not just the Edge Professional TWS -- meaning the BMW-branded 5w30 is okay too.


Can't really see what the confusion is. There's an asterisk at the BMW branded oil which directs you to the M cars with specific engines. That list states LL01, TWS, and LL04 Edge. BMW branded dealer oil is NOT suitable for those engines.

The notice is written in such a way as to infer that BMW dealer oil is NOT LL01.

Personally I believe this notice went out without approval.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: dparm
As an update, it looks like even BMW NA isn't giving clear answers on how to read that document:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14852375&postcount=60

The current interpretation on that website seems to be that you can only use BMW-branded LL-01 oils, not just the Edge Professional TWS -- meaning the BMW-branded 5w30 is okay too.


Can't really see what the confusion is. There's an asterisk at the BMW branded oil which directs you to the M cars with specific engines. That list states LL01, TWS, and LL04 Edge. BMW branded dealer oil is NOT suitable for those engines.

The notice is written in such a way as to infer that BMW dealer oil is NOT LL01.

Personally I believe this notice went out without approval.



On M3post, the consensus seems to be that it was indeed vaguely worded so that it would confuse people and they'd just stick with the expensive TWS or BMW-labeled oil. Why couldn't it just say "any BMW LL-01-approved oil is suitable for use"?

The problem is that there isn't any certification or even an oil that says "LL-01 for M vehicles". Even TWS just reads "Castrol EDGE Professional TWS 10W-60 is endorsed for use in BMW M - Models." TWS is not even LL-01!

A few guys have called BMW NA and talked to their dealers, and the answer has been different every time.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
On M3post, the consensus seems to be that it was indeed vaguely worded so that it would confuse people and they'd just stick with the expensive TWS or BMW-labeled oil.

Yup. My thoughts from the beginning of this thread as well...

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

I think the wording they used was very intentional. It was meant to make an average Joe think that BMW/Castrol oil is the only product to use while leaving the lawyers some breathing room in case someone brings up Magnuson–Moss.
 
I've seen examples of this intentional ambiguity in the past, and the courts typically side with the consumer who is acting in good faith.

The more I look at this:

BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines


...the more I am beginning to believe that LL-01 is okay. I'm reading it as, "If you have an M car with the S54, S62, S65, or S85 engine, you can use LL-01. If your M car has any other engine, you cannot use LL-01."

I would've written it as:

For BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines: BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
I've seen examples of this intentional ambiguity in the past, and the courts typically side with the consumer who is acting in good faith.


I must say that Mercedes is far more concise in their requirements and listings of approved lubricants for their vehicles.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: dparm
I've seen examples of this intentional ambiguity in the past, and the courts typically side with the consumer who is acting in good faith.


I must say that Mercedes is far more concise in their requirements and listings of approved lubricants for their vehicles.


IIRC their FF is Mobil 1, yes?
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: dparm
I've seen examples of this intentional ambiguity in the past, and the courts typically side with the consumer who is acting in good faith.


I must say that Mercedes is far more concise in their requirements and listings of approved lubricants for their vehicles.


IIRC their FF is Mobil 1, yes?


Correct.

And they maintain an up-to-date list of approved lubricants for the various certifications on their website.
 
BMW has changed its long time recommended oil change mileage intervals for all 2014 models and beyond. The changes apply to all vehicles produced from July 2013 on.

Previously, BMW recommended a 15,000 mile / 24 month Condition Based Service interval, but as of July 2013, the new basic interval will be every 10,000 miles / 12 months. This applies to both gasoline and diesel models.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=868291
 
grumble. this just adds to my frustration with BMW. i've been a fan of them forever, and have racked up thousand of miles behind the wheel of a bmw, but i dont like the direction they are going in at all. new turbo engines, vague oil specs, yada yada.

dear BMW: please keep making a relatively affordable car with your bullet proof inline-6 naturally aspirated engine. personally i place more value in a car that will run for 250k+ thousand miles without major parts replacements over a strung out, hpfp injected quad turbo four-banger. thank you. from NJ with love.
 
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