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#2893322 - 02/03/13 12:24 AM New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive.
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
EHOW SUMMARY OF FLUSH USE DANGERS.

NOTE: This warning from Hyundai is very similar to the one from GM in 2011.

EHOW has written a good short summary, so here is the text if you don't like links:

Engine Failure
The most common danger of engine flushes is complete engine breakdown. This is ironic, especially since the pioneers in engine flushing systems, Motorlife, say that routine engine flushing improves an automobile engine's overall performance, restores its efficiency and prolongs its life. According to Chris Martin of America Honda Public Relations, a car engine is most likely to suffer engine damage immediately after an engine flush. Several incidents involving auto maintenance chains such as Jiffy Lube and EZLube gave evidence of this, including customer Pat Marriott of Kansas City, who claimed that a Jiffy Lube engine flush service caused $5,000 worth of damage to his Nissan Sentra.

Sediment Clogging
According to an undercover investigative report by NBC Los Angeles on Jiffy Lube's engine flushes, the chemicals used for the engine flush are meant to break-down the sludgy deposits that build up inside a car's engine. However, the debris or sediment from the flush procedure could end up clogging other parts of the engine and cause further damage. For this reason, many major car dealers such as General Motors and Ford, among others, do not cover damages caused by engine flushes in their warranties. However, during NBC's undercover investigation, some auto technicians suggested flushing the engine anyway, claiming that car manufacturer's recommend doing so, which is not the case.

Damaged Engine Seals and Bearings
In February 2009, Hyundai Motors issued a technical service bulletin that recommends against engine flushing for all Hyundai models. The reason: the method and proprietary chemicals used in flushing engines can cause internal damage, specifically to engine seals and bearings. Damages to these parts can result in dangerous oil and lubricant leaks. In fact, Popular Mechanics, an online magazine, lists engine flushes as one of the top five unnecessary car maintenance procedures because an unusually dirty engine is not a normal problem.

Note the Hyundai warning was renewed in 2012 and the GM one is still current, the other manufacturers are just happy the sell you a new engine!


Edited by skyship (02/03/13 12:31 AM)

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#2893329 - 02/03/13 12:33 AM Re: New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive. [Re: skyship]
Mystic Offline


Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 7404
Loc: Colorado
Skyship I have owned Saturn cars for a long time. There was a dealership approved engine cleaning system at one of their Colorado Springs dealerships. The old oil was drained and the oil filter removed and with the engine not running hot high detergent oil was run through the engine. Than the oil was changed and a new oil filter installed. Every hear about something like that?

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#2893342 - 02/03/13 12:48 AM Re: New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive. [Re: skyship]
RiceCake Offline


Registered: 09/22/12
Posts: 1044
Loc: Coldtown, Canada
Too bad you couldn't post a link to, I dunno, Hyundai's actual TSB?

Most car manufacturers recommend against flushes, they're unnecessary.

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#2893344 - 02/03/13 12:54 AM Re: New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive. [Re: RiceCake]
Lead Shoes Offline


Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 2359
Loc: Mn
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Most car manufacturers recommend against flushes, they're unnecessary.


With proper maintenance yes, but that is not always the case, I have had great success with Seafoam, MMO, Amsoil flush, and b12-chemtool fighting sludge and hard deposits.
_________________________
1992 BMW 325i M50b25 157k
M1 0w40/Mahle
1995 Honda Civic - Built B17A1
Valv Vr-1 10w30/P1

Formerly Brenden.

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#2893346 - 02/03/13 12:56 AM Re: New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive. [Re: Mystic]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
Most vehicle manufacturers seem to have an approved flush machine, in fact even VW now have one. It might cost more than some Iffy lube machine, but at least they will use the right chemicals rather than some all purpose cleaner. The VW machine plugs in where the oil filter fits.
They seem to be fairly rare as I have only seen an auto box flusher and no Iffy lube places I know of have any type of machine in Germany, probably because they would need an approval from the vehicle manufacturers and sludge cases are fairly rare, so it might not be profitable.


Edited by skyship (02/03/13 12:57 AM)

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#2893347 - 02/03/13 01:01 AM Re: New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive. [Re: skyship]
Mystic Offline


Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 7404
Loc: Colorado
Thank you Skyship for the new information! So there ARE dealership approved flush machines! If so, we can no longer say that engine flushes are a complete no-no. If these flush machines work properly and are safe and successfully clean the internals of dirty engines, we now do have an alternative to removing parts and physically cleaning the insides of an engine!

The data base has been updated.

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#2893353 - 02/03/13 01:14 AM Re: New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive. [Re: skyship]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
Video clip about Iffy lube flush machines:

FLUSH MACHINES CLIP

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#2893358 - 02/03/13 01:31 AM Re: New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive. [Re: skyship]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17649
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
I still do not understand how engine flush machines can cause harm. Yes, they are usually not necessary and can leave residue behind in the new engine oil, but I cannot see how they can cause the catastrophic failures being described.

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#2893373 - 02/03/13 02:47 AM Re: New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive. [Re: Lead Shoes]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7102
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Brenden
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Most car manufacturers recommend against flushes, they're unnecessary.


With proper maintenance yes, but that is not always the case, I have had great success with Seafoam, MMO, Amsoil flush, and b12-chemtool fighting sludge and hard deposits.


As have I. Sunkship is on a copy and paste mission to back up this weeks stance on no additives. Last week he approved of and recommended a few,amsoil and liqui-moly brands.
Where are the failed engines using mmo,seafoam,kreen,auto RX etc.
and a warning doesn't mean much posted by him. It's like a politician trying to dig up dirt on the opposition. Only posting selective info backing up his position and omitting anything to the contrary. It's funny really. Like a clown.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#2893376 - 02/03/13 02:59 AM Re: New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive. [Re: skyship]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 5070
Loc: MA
eHow? LOL those are .0001c "pay per click" pages written by paid copy and paste bloggers, nothing more. Blocked from my google search results as nuisance. Maybe you wrote that and linked it here? This falls under boogieman. What can be achieved in 5-10 mins? Other than thin and overfill your oil, not too much. I know, I've tried the stuff. You think additives are snake oil and spam threads with that opinion. Now you have them melting years of sludge in seconds. Once again thats wrong, and your talking about things you have no first hand experience with. Can you knock something loose overfilling your oil? Yeah. Can the Fast flush knock something loose? Yeah. Can a basic oil change knock something loose? Yeah.

NOT to be confused with fast flush additives, I prefer the "drive with" additives like Kreen or MMO. Better job emulsifying and deposits. Longer time in the sup, better change to do something.
_________________________
02 Camry XLE 2AZ-FE 305k M1 HM 5w30, 9k OCI.
13 Malibu 9k unknown..

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#2893377 - 02/03/13 03:00 AM Re: New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive. [Re: The Critic]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
In the case of Iffy or Eazy lube the danger would be from not using the correct engine specific flush chemical or finger trouble by the half trained employees. They might charge less than a main dealer for a machine flush, but you often get what you pay for and a main dealer would offer a warranty of some sort, probably the standard one year.
The main risk of machine flushing would be that it dissolves the varnish helping an old worn oil seal to function and starts an oil leak, BUT if you use the wrong flush chemical it can damage the seals directly or dissolve the layer of anti wear additives out of the bearings increasing cold start and high temperature wear factors, although that is mostly a risk factor for turbo bearings. Flush machines used correctly are safe in main block terms.

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#2893379 - 02/03/13 03:25 AM Re: New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive. [Re: Mystic]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Thank you Skyship for the new information! So there ARE dealership approved flush machines! If so, we can no longer say that engine flushes are a complete no-no. If these flush machines work properly and are safe and successfully clean the internals of dirty engines, we now do have an alternative to removing parts and physically cleaning the insides of an engine!

The data base has been updated.


Here is some more info on flush machine use, although I don't know if the 199 dollar figure is correct. Seems like an OK price as it takes all day to do the job by hand if it's a bad case.

Funny comments on machine flushers.

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#2893380 - 02/03/13 03:29 AM Re: New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive. [Re: skyship]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 5070
Loc: MA
Its one thing to voice your opinion, another to accuse me of incompetence for recommending an additive to try to fix/test/resolve something. I experiment with all additives. If the results are positive, I recommend to others. The next time you chime in and accuse me of being dangerous or incompetent, remember that.

I was just helping a guy in another thread and you spammed in claiming I was an "addaholic", suggested I was incompetent. I was speaking from experience on the subject. I ran Kreen through the 02 Camry 30k ago to solve a vvt-i P1349 controller/ocv/screen problem. MMO in a 00 Corolla with the same problem.

"Don't like to use additives" means no experience with additives. Something you and OVERKILL who backed you up in that thread admit. well I do, not all are snake oil, not all do bad things. I don't throw clothes away and buy new when they get dirty, I wash them with detergent. Same goes for an engine and its parts. I'm running 1/2 qt MMO in the GP right now as a cleanup. Dead of winter. Runs beautiful quiet. the sticky lifter is gone. Have run MMO for 30 years as a mild engine cleaner. Never had a problem. There are a few that work. And yes, the many don't. Unless you try them out, there's no way to know. If nobody took the risk to sail long distances, we would still think the earth is flat.
_________________________
02 Camry XLE 2AZ-FE 305k M1 HM 5w30, 9k OCI.
13 Malibu 9k unknown..

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#2893391 - 02/03/13 04:16 AM Re: New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive. [Re: LeakySeals]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7102
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Its one thing to voice your opinion, another to accuse me of incompetence for recommending an additive to try to fix/test/resolve something. I experiment with all additives. If the results are positive, I recommend to others. The next time you chime in and accuse me of being dangerous or incompetent, remember that.

I was just helping a guy in another thread and you spammed in claiming I was an "addaholic", suggested I was incompetent. I was speaking from experience on the subject. I ran Kreen through the 02 Camry 30k ago to solve a vvt-i P1349 controller/ocv/screen problem. MMO in a 00 Corolla with the same problem.

"Don't like to use additives" means no experience with additives. Something you and OVERKILL who backed you up in that thread admit. well I do, not all are snake oil, not all do bad things. I don't throw clothes away and buy new when they get dirty, I wash them with detergent. Same goes for an engine and its parts. I'm running 1/2 qt MMO in the GP right now as a cleanup. Dead of winter. Runs beautiful quiet. the sticky lifter is gone. Have run MMO for 30 years as a mild engine cleaner. Never had a problem. There are a few that work. And yes, the many don't. Unless you try them out, there's no way to know. If nobody took the risk to sail long distances, we would still think the earth is flat.


Don't let his drivel get to you. He's nothing more than a child who needs to get revenge when he doesn't get his way,and this is his way of getting revenge.
I don't know why he is still here to be honest. I got a month vacation for less.
Anyways keep posting your EXPERIENCES. That is what truly matters here. Not a copy and paste missionary who cannot think outside the box. Like a horse with blinders on,he sees only what's in front of him as the whip smacks his rear.
No one listens to him anyways......
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#2893402 - 02/03/13 04:56 AM Re: New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive. [Re: Clevy]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
If you get a low oil pressure related warning code it could be serious, the last thing you should do is suggest to the owner to pour Moo oil in to see what happens, unless you are trying to sell the stuff. Such silly comments should be restricted to the oil additives section.
I was probably wrong to even suggest that the owner go to the nearest garage without pointing out it's a good idea to get the oil pressure checked first before driving there.


Edited by skyship (02/03/13 04:58 AM)

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