Mobil 1 5W30 EP 7090 Miles 06 Toyota Tacoma V6

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: tig1
My son and I put 348K on a 91 Ranger 3.0 with M1 10-30. When sold it still ran great. OCIs were 10-14K(when my son owned the truck he extended longer than I care to). By the way, never did a UOA(there way overated IMO) Many here are hand wringers over TBN. Just enjoy your truck with what you are doing, and don't get caught up in the BITOG UOA mental angush of chasing down every 1 PPM of this or that. Good report.

Oh I agree. Because a pushrod V6 is the same as a OHC V6 (after all a V6 is a V6) and no one is talking about 1 PPM.

And all of those useless UOAs that have proven valuable to many members here who are clueless. All I needed to do is run Mobil 1 oils and I could have saved a head gasket rebuild! In the same engine as your Sons truck.

I'm so dumb...

Amazing post.

Bill

PS: How can it be a "good report" (your words) if they are "overrated" (again your words)? Again amazing post...

PPS: To the OP; Excellent thread over on the other site. My 2005 Corolla will hit 300k next year and I've had the same service. Oil used has been everything but 90% conventional with up to 13k OCIs. Still OEM parts still on the vehicle with little done to it. Good job!

Bill,
You lost me on the V6 is a V6 comment. I also didn't say you were dumb, in fact I can't figure why you would say that about yourself. Sorry about the head gasket. I replaced one on my old 94 Tempo diesel and M1 didn't prevent it from failing. And I still believe UOAs are overated, but on rare(notice I said rare) occasions are needed to perhaps detect a suspected oil contaminate problem.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
How do you drive and in what conditions?

For a 15k OCI oil the TBN is too low for me after only 7100 miles. I just got done with a 15k OCI and took a sample but after this and another OCI (Honda with a timing belt) and both had low TBN if I run a UOA I guess I'd better get a TBN too.

Thanks for the UOA!

Bill

See this thread with a response by XOM regarding TBN. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2703713#Post2703713

 

[sciphi]

UOA's helped me to determine what interval to safely run in a high-strung turbocharged engine. Cheaper than a new turbo or engine, as supposedly happened to one Cruze owner already.

I just picked up a jug of M1 EP 5w-30 in the SN/dexos1 flavor to try out in the Cruze to see if it's appreciably better than the Quaker State UD 5w-30 I was using. Time will tell.

 

[fdcg27]

BIU's point was that the TBN remaining in this oil after less than half of its life per XOM was way too low to even consider 15K on this oil.
This is what UOAs tell us.
Nobody is parsing a ppm or two.
Everybody is looking at the low TBN after only 7100 miles.
TBN on M1 EP in this engine is too low for the oil to have been run 15K.
There is no good argument to the contrary.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
BIU's point was that the TBN remaining in this oil after less than half of its life per XOM was way too low to even consider 15K on this oil.
This is what UOAs tell us.
Nobody is parsing a ppm or two.
Everybody is looking at the low TBN after only 7100 miles.
TBN on M1 EP in this engine is too low for the oil to have been run 15K.
There is no good argument to the contrary.

Can't prove it unless you do it.

 

[qnyla]

Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Nice report.

Looks like Blackstone put in the 5w-20 viscosity ranges, not the 5w-30.




You are correct. They sent a corrected report. Here it is:

 

[fdcg27]

The OP did do a UOA of this oil showing that TBN was not sufficient to reach 15K.
That proves it because he did run the oil and the UOA.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The OP did do a UOA of this oil showing that TBN was not sufficient to reach 15K.
That proves it because he did run the oil and the UOA.


Mobil claims their test show TBN for EP will level off at about 2 and remain there for 15-20K. We can only speculate on the results of longer OCIs and how TBN holds up unless we do them. From what I have seen in a couple of engines XMs claim has warrant. I guess it's what we feel comfortable with doing, but I don't think XM would sell their flagship oil short if they hadn't done their homework. Here is a link.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2703713

 

[fdcg27]

I realize that TBN retention is not linear, but to think that M1 EP will see a TBN decline to 2.2 in just 7K and will then just stay there to 15K seems beyond belief.
If someone else wants to prove this with their engine, as well as a UOA at a mileage similar to that of the OP and then another with TBN at 15K, I'll eat crow on this.
I like M1 too, although I'm not using any at the moment.
I have used plenty in the past, although I've never seen the need to do 10K drain intervals.
It is not, however, a brand somehow immune to the degradation factors involving every other oil.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
fdcg27 - You are correct in that TBN retention is not linear and the same applies to TAN

In my experience the TBN can hold somewhat "steady" as the OCI progresses. It can actually increase due to top up and this has been a factor in some engine designs where an oil consumption rate is a design factor

In any case a TBN of 1 (D4739 - 2 D2896)is a readily acceptable figure in extended OCIs

 

[DuckRyder]

I may do this, although my TBN was not quite so low at similar mileage (3.3) and I'm frankly probably never going to convince myself to run 15,000. I am thinking I will pull a sample at 7500-8000 and if all looks good maybe run it to 10,000 and see what that sample looks like.

The question I have is: Could that TBN be wrong?

Wonder if Blackstone would re-run it.

Here is a 5/20EP @ ~12,000 with a 1.6TBN. (I know this is 5/30EP)

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2735671#Post2735671

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I realize that TBN retention is not linear, but to think that M1 EP will see a TBN decline to 2.2 in just 7K and will then just stay there to 15K seems beyond belief.
If someone else wants to prove this with their engine, as well as a UOA at a mileage similar to that of the OP and then another with TBN at 15K, I'll eat crow on this.
I like M1 too, although I'm not using any at the moment.
I have used plenty in the past, although I've never seen the need to do 10K drain intervals.
It is not, however, a brand somehow immune to the degradation factors involving every other oil.


As a 10K OCI doer I'm not interested in longer OCIs myself, but I do know some that are going out to 15K and longer with no adverse affects.

 

[dnewton3]

I completely concur, Doug.

TBN/TAN responses will be parabolic in degredation (in a reasonably inverse proportional manner). They will indeed level off as miles increase.

Much of this has to do with the normalization of any newly-introduced fluid into its environment. It affects nearly every aspect of the lube. The TBN, the vis, the wear rates; they all are affected moreso at the front end of an OCI than the back end. Wear rates taper off. TBN reduction slows; TAN production slows. Vis will often drop, and then rise with a bit of oxidation. And some amount of oxidation is desirable; it is what creates the good tribo-chemical anti-wear layer.

 

[fdcg27]

But without a UOA including TBN, you're just whistling in the dark.
The no adverse effects are presumably limited to the engine not dying, since there is no data to back up any other conclusion.

 

[FZ1]

Looks like 7-8k is a good oci. Tbn at 2. Great report!