Amsoil & Certifications

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Thanks Tom. Useful answer, especially the "surprises are common" part, which is especially informative.

Following up, I wonder how common failures are using uncertified oils? I don't mean uncertified like some of the "road oil" you have called out at PQIA, but an oil made from quality ingredients that created a "surprise" due to lacking some ingredient needed for a specific application. I imagine this might be difficult to quantify because of all the "noise" in the failure data and incorrect interpretations of root causes.


Surprises can be positive or negative - they are just unanticipated results, which is why trying to predict performance without testing is inappropriate. Negative surprises should only occur in the lab; field failures are very rare if the research and development are done right.

Most uncertified oils claim older or obsolete specifications such as SA through SJ, which are not certifiable. With the exception of some of the really poor oils PQIA uncovered, failures with these oils are most likely related to misapplication, such as using an SA oil in a modern engine. I would expect failure rates to be extremely low for oils that are properly developed, blended, labeled, and applied.

Tom NJ

 

[BigBird57]

They bring some this on themselves. The OE and the XL10000 was disingenuous at best. Soured a long time advocate. Amsoil did not want us to know they were using groupIII basestocks.

 

[virginoil]

..

 

[The motor guy]

Something came to mind here that really makes me kind of mad. I'm not sure if someone mentioned this already since I didn't read the 15 pages here but anyways, if they don't spend all the money on the API tests for most of their oils then shouldn't their oils be fairly cheap compared to the companies that do?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Something came to mind here that really makes me kind of mad. I'm not sure if someone mentioned this already since I didn't read the 15 pages here but anyways, if they don't spend all the money on the API tests for most of their oils then shouldn't their oils be fairly cheap compared to the companies that do?


They probably work on a higher margin, and do pay commissions to their dealers. It all goes into the bottom line.

 

[addyguy]

Just a general commnet, along the lines of what Pablo said, is I'm really, really suprised Amsoil hasn't 'gone after' M1 0W-40 full-bore.

That is, I'm suprised they haven't made a 5W-40 or 0W-40 oil, loaded with goodies, that carries a boatload of certifications, and is literally a 'one size fits all' oil...there are VERY few application where M1 0W-40 doesn't shine....heck, it even carries basic diesel certs, and we've seen it do well there!

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Just a general commnet, along the lines of what Pablo said, is I'm really, really suprised Amsoil hasn't 'gone after' M1 0W-40 full-bore.

That is, I'm suprised they haven't made a 5W-40 or 0W-40 oil, loaded with goodies, that carries a boatload of certifications, and is literally a 'one size fits all' oil...there are VERY few application where M1 0W-40 doesn't shine....heck, it even carries basic diesel certs, and we've seen it do well there!

I thought Amsoil Euro Formula 5w-40 was supposed to be it, no?

It's recommended for a bunch of Euro specs, including:

ACEA C3
ACEA A3/B3
ACEA A3/B4
BMW LL-04
Mercedes Benz 229.31, 229.51
Porsche
Saab
Volvo
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00, 505.01
DaimlerChrysler MS-10725


By the way, getting an oil officially certified against some of these Euro mfg specs is a lot more expensive than getting an API cert.

 

[Shannow]

Yeah, but we're back to "recommended for", rather than even "tested to"

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Something came to mind here that really makes me kind of mad. I'm not sure if someone mentioned this already since I didn't read the 15 pages here but anyways, if they don't spend all the money on the API tests for most of their oils then shouldn't their oils be fairly cheap compared to the companies that do?


Amsoil does test their oils.

 

[Trex101]

Quote:
Amsoil does test their oils.


Say who? base on faith that Amsoil has tested and passes all the API & Mfg spec?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Trex101


Quote:
Amsoil does test their oils.


Say who? base on faith that Amsoil has tested and passes all the API & Mfg spec?


Says me. The implication is that Amsoil doesn't test their oils.

Now you ask if they test to "ALL manufacturer's specs?" I cannot answer this in the affirmative because I'm sure there is some test or another that they qualify by similarity.

 

[4ever4d]

Like any other oil guys, if you don't like it or believe it works well or don't have "faith" in it you should use what you do like and believe in.

No hard feelings from Amsoil i'm sure.

 

[DragRace]

Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
Like any other oil guys, if you don't like it or believe it works well or don't have "faith" in it you should use what you do like and believe in.

No hard feelings from Amsoil i'm sure.


Best post in this thread! Wow,just wow 10-pages now?!REALLY?! Yeah,of all the people I know who run their stuff,and know of no engine failures or issues,I myself have no issues with Amsoil either.But if I did,I'd just pick another brand of oil,I mean,seriously it's not that difficult and quite frankly,there are more troubling things to worry about these days,then what oil is in a oil pan.Life is short,make a choice and move along.

 

[dave1251]

I agree but Amsoil has spent close to 4 decades of being a leader in the PCMO business and it's reputation did not come by accident. Is Amsoil prefect for every application? No but it will do good in almost every application. If you contact Amsoil and explain the application that you have and Amsoil will direct you to the product that the company manufactures that will work best for your application.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Just a general commnet, along the lines of what Pablo said, is I'm really, really suprised Amsoil hasn't 'gone after' M1 0W-40 full-bore.

To really go after M1 0w-40, Amsoil would not only need to get all the relevant specs, but it would also need to place it on the shelves of every major retailer, right next to M1 0w-40. As was discussed before, the price of doing this would be cost prohibitive to a company the size of Amsoil and would eat away all its profits.

Besides, I don't think the M1 0w-40 market is all that big to really spend your precious resources on. Most people with cars that require such oil get their oil changes done at the dealer while they're sipping fancy coffee and eating donuts. We talk about M1 0w-40 a lot here on BITOG, but we are in the minority, really.

That's why SOPUS does not go after M1 0w-40 either, even though they have a product that meets the same specs and could easily compete with it (PU 5w-40). SOPUS would rather stock retailer shelves with common grades of PP or PYB because that's what sells the most and generates the most revenue.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Just a general commnet, along the lines of what Pablo said, is I'm really, really suprised Amsoil hasn't 'gone after' M1 0W-40 full-bore.

That is, I'm suprised they haven't made a 5W-40 or 0W-40 oil, loaded with goodies, that carries a boatload of certifications, and is literally a 'one size fits all' oil...there are VERY few application where M1 0W-40 doesn't shine....heck, it even carries basic diesel certs, and we've seen it do well there!


True...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Just a general commnet, along the lines of what Pablo said, is I'm really, really suprised Amsoil hasn't 'gone after' M1 0W-40 full-bore.

To really go after M1 0w-40, Amsoil would not only need to get all the relevant specs, but it would also need to place it on the shelves of every major retailer, right next to M1 0w-40. As was discussed before, the price of doing this would be cost prohibitive to a company the size of Amsoil and would eat away all its profits.

Besides, I don't think the M1 0w-40 market is all that big to really spend your precious resources on. Most people with cars that require such oil get their oil changes done at the dealer while they're sipping fancy coffee and eating donuts. We talk about M1 0w-40 a lot here on BITOG, but we are in the minority, really.

That's why SOPUS does not go after M1 0w-40 either, even though they have a product that meets the same specs and could easily compete with it (PU 5w-40). SOPUS would rather stock retailer shelves with common grades of PP or PYB because that's what sells the most and generates the most revenue.


But it doesn't meet ALL the same specs, just most of them.

Nobody has a product that goes toe-to-toe with M1 0w40 cert-wise, nobody. It stands alone.

That being said, I'd really like AMSOIL to come out with a comparable product that is certified against at least a few of the same manu's. Even if they got those certs for their existing 5w40. The Porsche cert along with one of the long-drain ones like LL-01 would really be beneficial IMHO.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

But it doesn't meet ALL the same specs, just most of them.

Nobody has a product that goes toe-to-toe with M1 0w40 cert-wise, nobody. It stands alone.

PU 5w-40:
Ferrari
Porsche A40
Mercedes Benz 229.5 and 229.3
VW 502 00 and 505 00
VW/Audi 503 01
Fiat 9.55535 Z2
BMW LL-01
Chrysler MS-10725
Exceeds the requirements of ACEA A3/B3/B4
Exceeds the requirements of API SM/CF and previous categories

M1 0w-40:
API SN/SM/SL/SJ
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
Nissan GT-R
Mercedes Benz 229.3 and 229.5
BMW LL-01
VW 502 00 and 505 00
PORSCHE A40

M1 0w-40 also mentions SAAB, OPEL, and FIAT specs, but does not have their official approval which to me is as valuable as Amsoil saying "recommended for..."

So the way I read it, PU 5w-40 actually has more official approvals than M1 0w-40.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Trex101


Quote:
Amsoil does test their oils.


Say who? base on faith that Amsoil has tested and passes all the API & Mfg spec?


Says me. The implication is that Amsoil doesn't test their oils.

Now you ask if they test to "ALL manufacturer's specs?" I cannot answer this in the affirmative because I'm sure there is some test or another that they qualify by similarity.


Yeah, Amsoil obviously knows their oil is good. They aren't acting on 'blind' faith and quite honestly, no one on this entire message board should if they claim to be an 'oil guy'.

I mean, seriously? Their product isn't really in question in regards to performance. Again, this was about the ethical image of a very specific use of wording.

I actually don't care, since they have made 'beyond' reasonable efforts to comfort people like buster with their certified OE and XL line.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

But it doesn't meet ALL the same specs, just most of them.

Nobody has a product that goes toe-to-toe with M1 0w40 cert-wise, nobody. It stands alone.

PU 5w-40:
Ferrari
Porsche A40
Mercedes Benz 229.5 and 229.3
VW 502 00 and 505 00
VW/Audi 503 01
Fiat 9.55535 Z2
BMW LL-01
Chrysler MS-10725
Exceeds the requirements of ACEA A3/B3/B4
Exceeds the requirements of API SM/CF and previous categories

M1 0w-40:
API SN/SM/SL/SJ
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
Nissan GT-R
Mercedes Benz 229.3 and 229.5
BMW LL-01
VW 502 00 and 505 00
PORSCHE A40

M1 0w-40 also mentions SAAB, OPEL, and FIAT specs, but does not have their official approval which to me is as valuable as Amsoil saying "recommended for..."

So the way I read it, PU 5w-40 actually has more official approvals than M1 0w-40.



I think you mean where they mention:

Quote:

According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 0W40 is of the following quality:
API CF
SAAB
OPEL Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025
OPEL Diesel Service Fill GM-LL-B-025
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - M2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - N2
FIAT FIAT 9.55535 - Z2


?

Not sure why that is worded different but I don't think it is the same as "recommended for...."

And if we include the list above, of course M1 0w40's list is a lot longer. And as you know, I was including the above list when making the statement I made.