Shell Rotella T6 acea e9...?

[GhostFlame]

Is the above credential better or totally different than acea a3/b3. Another forum says it is better, as an improvement/upgrade to the acea a3/b3. Another argues that it is different altogether.

I'm not a researcher or a technician or a UOA tester I just want to know what the two credentials have in common... or not.

 

[A_Harman]

An E-rating in the ACEA system is for commercial heavy-duty vehicles.

An A and B rating in the ACEA system is for personal-use light-duty vehicles.

If you are buying oil for a passenger car, use an ACEA A/B oil.

 

[440Magnum]

Compare and contrast until your eyes cross:

http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/E908.html

http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/A3B408.html


Its sortof a philosophical argument as to whether that its a "different" credential or not, IMO. It addresses many of the same issues- NOACK, TBN, HTHS, suphated ash, etc. and is very similar on most of those.

The difference, I would say, is that it emphasizes controlling additives that would damage the new aftertreatment systems. The sulphated ash limit is nearly half that of A3/B4. Note that E9 appears to clamp phosphorous at 1200 PPM (by weight), whereas the A3/B4 spec just requires the content to be "reported." And the minimum TBN has been lowered, but as has been discussed here quite a bit, the fact that the US now requires ULS diesel fuel, the NEED for sky-high TBN is a lot lower than it used to be.

Frankly, I see nothing here that would prevent an RT6 formulation that meets E9 from continuing to be a superb oil, and for modern diesels it would be more desirable. Since you're posting in the gasoline passcar forum, I assume that like me you are interested in RT6 for better protection of an older slider-cam engine... with a phos limit of 1200, the E9 spec should still be fine. Earlier UOAs of RT6 show that its in that ballpark anyway, its never been up in the 1500-1800 ppm range like some racing oils are.

 

[jaj]

ACEA has four series of standards:

A - Automobile gasoline engines
B - Automobile diesel engines
C - Catalyst-friendly automobile gasoline and diesel engines
E - Heavy duty transport truck diesel engines

E9 is heavy duty truck oil in long drain service on trucks equipped with diesel particulate filters, exhaust gas recirculation and other modern emission controls as mandated in Europe ("Euro V").

E9 service requirements are very different from gasoline engine service in passenger cars. While things that make an oil pass E9 might be beneficial in a gasoline engine, they won't provide a tangible benefit compared to oil that's blended for gasoline engine service in the first place.

My opinion would be that if an oil meets E9, it's a good oil, but "better" is a bit of a reach.

 

[GhostFlame]

Magnumand and JAJ,

Thanks, That's the kind of layman's interpretation I was looking for. I'm learning, All these comments are helpful to those of us that want to climb on the backs of those who study this stuff... so keep 'em coming. Any dis-agree-ers?

After reading a lot of discussions here and on the BMW forums about T6 (both for and against), Most of the pro t6 crowd had number comparisons and the cons just repeated that it is not BMW LL-01 certified...blah, blah.... I put it in my BMW and it really quieted the engine(142K on the clock) down compared to M1 0-40 and Castrol 5-40(both great oils!). It also seemed pepier. I'd really like to keep using the T6 but, I can live with a noisier engine if it might damage it.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: GhostFlame
I put it in my BMW and it really quieted the engine(142K on the clock) down compared to M1 0-40 and Castrol 5-40(both great oils!). It also seemed pepier. I'd really like to keep using the T6 but, I can live with a noisier engine if it might damage it.

I've heard the comment that M1 0w-40 makes BMW engines more noisy. Not sure why exactly this happens and if it causes any problems aside from noise. M1 0w-40 keeps our C300 engine very quiet.

The one problem I have with T6 is that it turns notably thicker as the temps drop. So, if you park your car outside and start it on a cold day during winter, you may be causing more startup wear with T6 than with M1 0w-40. Another oil you might consider is PU 5w-40 which is very close to M1 0w-40 in terms of cold flow and also carries the LL-01 certification.

 

[jaj]

Originally Posted By: GhostFlame
...Most of the pro t6 crowd had number comparisons and the cons just repeated that it is not BMW LL-01 certified...blah, blah.... I put it in my BMW and it really quieted the engine(142K on the clock) down compared to M1 0-40 and Castrol 5-40(both great oils!). It also seemed pepier. I'd really like to keep using the T6 but, I can live with a noisier engine if it might damage it.


Interesting about the noise - the M1 0w-40 I put in my wife's 2008 323i (2.5 liter I6) every April runs quieter than the BMW 5w-30 that the dealer puts in every October.

As for which of the T6 or M1 oils is "better", in the context of your BMW the answer is "they're equal". If you like the way that T6 quiets the mechanical noises from the engine then keep on using it - nothing bad will happen.

 

[A_Harman]

Except that the RT6 has 20% higher Phosphorous content and will poison the catalytic converter faster than M1 0w40.

That is, assuming that your car still has a cat and that you worry about that kind of thing.

 

[Quattro Pete]

But in general, T6 has lower sulphated ash content than M1 0w-40. Wouldn't that actually make T6 more emission component friendly?

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: jaj
Originally Posted By: GhostFlame
I put it in my BMW and it really quieted the engine(142K on the clock) down compared to M1 0-40 and Castrol 5-40(both great oils!). I


Interesting about the noise - the M1 0w-40 I put in my wife's 2008 323i (2.5 liter I6) every April runs quieter than the BMW 5w-30 that the dealer puts in every October.


I usually put zero stock in how an engine "sounds" with different oils, but that said: My 66 440 has absolutely hellacious piston slap because of the way the engine was built. I've learned to just ignore it, but M1 0w40is the ONLY oil of all that I've tried (M1 10w30, RP 0w40, RT6, among others) that actually made the piston slap very slightly quieter. Which surprised the heck out of me.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Except that the RT6 has 20% higher Phosphorous content and will poison the catalytic converter faster than M1 0w40.

That is, assuming that your car still has a cat and that you worry about that kind of thing.


That is assuming that you really believe that slightly higher phosphorous dose will make the catalyst function drop below the minimum legal requirements even after 200,000+ miles. I don't believe that it would in a well-maintained engine that didn't drink oil like crazy.

 

[jaj]

As I recall, low phosphorous oil is a recent requirement for newer emission control systems. It wasn't a factor when the car was made so it doesn't have to become a factor now.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
But in general, T6 has lower sulphated ash content than M1 0w-40. Wouldn't that actually make T6 more emission component friendly?


You're right about that; T6 has 1.0 ash, M1 0w40 has 1.3.
I think it depends on the emissions component. For a diesel particulate filter, it is ash buildup that eventually clogs it. For a catalytic converter, it is a thin coating of Phosphorous that inactivates the precious metal coating. A cat doesn't have to be clogged to become ineffective.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Except that the RT6 has 20% higher Phosphorous content and will poison the catalytic converter faster than M1 0w40.

That is, assuming that your car still has a cat and that you worry about that kind of thing.


That is assuming that you really believe that slightly higher phosphorous dose will make the catalyst function drop below the minimum legal requirements even after 200,000+ miles. I don't believe that it would in a well-maintained engine that didn't drink oil like crazy.



Since the emissions control system has to have a 150k mile warranty according to gummint regulations, it's probably academic. If the 20% higher P content of RT6 inactivates the cat in 250k miles instead of 300k miles for M1 0w40, it's probably not a concern. If it inactivates the cat at 125k miles instead of 150k, it probably is.

But if I had a choice between putting in a high-Phosphorous oil to save my engine from wear versus using a low-P oil to save the cat, I'd elect to save the engine every time. Why sacrifice a $5000 engine to save a $250 cat?