Recommending Oil Change without oil filter

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cadfaeltex

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Got the Acura service manual for the 2007 Acura MDX that I've been asking questions about. In reading it, I noticed something interesting that I had just plain missed in the owner's manual. There are two types of maintenance mentioned - type 'a' and type 'b'. The type 'a' -as I notice now- is an oil change without filter change. Is this unusual to recommend for a car manufacturer? From the little I know (which trust me is VERY little) I didn't think you ever changed the oil without changing the filter.

That being said, follow on question, since I'm doing the oil change on Saturday and doing for the one year rather than because the Maintenance minder said I don't know whether I should do the 'a' or 'b'. I've got the filter so I figure I might as well change it anyhow. What do you guys think?

TIA,
Tony
 
Not for a honda product.
To me it's cheap insurance changing the filter as well.. even if you had to use a fram.
 
It's cheap insurance as mentioned above. You can even get a Purolator classic for $3.50. I think it's the best cheap filter on the market personally. I've heard of changing oil without changing the filter, but unless it's a high end filter, I wouldn't go for it.
 
Only changing it once a year? I'd go ahead and change the filter every year, just to be safe.

Having said that, though, I believe we toss out perfectly good filters. When my car gets out of warranty, I'm thinking very strongly about getting one of the expensive "premium" filters (Bosch Distance+, Mobil1, Royal Purple, etc.) and changing it every other time. Say, about 10000 miles total?
 
I use synthetic and perform 5K oil changes and 10K oil/filter changes on our cars. I started that approach in 2001 with my A4 since Audi covered oil changes every 10K. I would use an oil extractor at the half-way mark, but leave the filter on. After positive results, I just continued that approach. I use OEM (on the A4) or Mobil 1/Fram Xtra Guard (on the RX330).

I do understand that "filters are inexpensive" and I am "leaving dirty oil in the system", but based upon a few UOAs, it just works for me.
 
Originally Posted By: callbay
If you don't change the filter you are mixing the old flter full of old oil with the new oil. What a dumb thing to do!


I fully agree. 1st grade oil change class 101, taught that mixing 80% of your new oil with 20% old oil gives you 100% contaminated oil. IMMHO.
 
For reference, I'm using the OEM Acura Filter. Yep, think I'm sticking with my gut and the advice given here to change the filter and the oil together.
 
Honda does recommend an oil change while retaining the filter for some model years.
GM did this years ago (like forty years back) as well.
Why worry about it?
Change the filter every time.
They're cheap enough, and not hard to change.
I have never drained the oil in any car and not replaced the filter.
Too cheap and easy to change.
 
Filter performance improves with usage up to a point, so too frequent changes may not be the best. I'd rely on the engineers recomendation based on real data that is in your owners manual before taking other well meaning advice. JMO. Ed
 
A dirty filter is a good filter...after they load up a bit their filtration efficiency goes up. If the filter isn't at capacity, there really isn't a need to change it. And filter sizes on Honda's are usually on the smaller side...its not like they hold that much oil, so there wouldn't be much cross contamination with the new oil. By changing a filter more often then necessary, an argument could be made that you are in fact increasing wear due to reduced filtration efficiency.

The real question is one of capacity, and whether or not the filter in any particular application could last more then one change without filling up with crude and/or breaking down. OEM honda filters are Frams IIRC....I wouldn't use one of those for two changes. However a premium aftermarket filter would probably not have any issues lasting two OCI's. M1, RP, Amsoil EA, Bosch D+ and the Fram Extended Guard are all long life filters and I wouldn't have any issues using them for two reasonable OCI's.
There are those on this board that have called oil filters "useless appendages" when used on modern clean running engines. So I doubt your average filter is reaching its holding capacity in a reasonable OCI.
 
Originally Posted By: Curtis Newton
I use synthetic and perform 5K oil changes and 10K oil/filter changes on our cars. I started that approach in 2001 with my A4 since Audi covered oil changes every 10K. I would use an oil extractor at the half-way mark, but leave the filter on. After positive results, I just continued that approach. I use OEM (on the A4) or Mobil 1/Fram Xtra Guard (on the RX330).


Correction: I meant to say "extended guard" vice "xtra guard".
 
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contaminated oil? whether you change the filter or not the oil gets contaminated by the little oil still in the engine. Cut open a filter that has been on a car 7K or 10K with no engine problems and you will see the filter is not used up or maxed out. You can leave the filter on easily with no issue while changing the oil only.
 
Quote:
Correction: I meant to say "extended guard" vice "xtra guard".
Yea, lol I get those confused too sometimes! How the heck do they get "Extra Guard" from "PH" - Extended Guard for "XG" makes sense....and TG for Tough Guard makes sense....but wth with the "PH"? And to "Ex" and "X" with totally different product lines? :p

Originally Posted By: callbay
If you don't change the filter you are mixing the old flter full of old oil with the new oil. What a dumb thing to do!
So, empty the filter, and refill it with new oil during the oil change?


But then I guess that would defeat the whole "convenience" :p You're down there, may as well change out the filter since you already took it off :p


But in all honesty, If you are running the TG or XG filter or any other "premium" filter, you should be able to go 10k on the filter. I know the FRAM XG (or is it the TG? I tend to get them mixed up.....) state they are warranted for 10k - WITH synthetic oil only though. Which has had me curious to an extent....how can a filter only be spec'd as a "synthetic only" filter? Granted, I understand an expensive filter won't allow a "cheap" conventional oil to be ran.....and maybe that's what the asterisk/footnote/fine print is for....so some dumb bass doesn't go filling up with PYB/GTX and trying to go 10k simply because they got a "10k" filter installed on the vehicle...?

Would it hurt the filter, or the car to use a conventional oil with the "for synthetic oil" filter?


Originally Posted By: Curtis Newton
I use synthetic and perform 5K oil changes and 10K oil/filter changes on our cars. I started that approach in 2001 with my A4 since Audi covered oil changes every 10K. I would use an oil extractor at the half-way mark, but leave the filter on. After positive results, I just continued that approach. I use OEM (on the A4) or Mobil 1/Fram Xtra Guard (on the RX330).


Sounds like a decent approach. The oil extractor obviously isn't taking the contaminants out of the filter, but if you're using a decent filter, they should stay stuck in there, and as mentioned, most filters work BEtter, as they get "full"....Another approach I've heard of, is emptying the filter, re-installing the filter, then cranking the vehicle over......but that could be quite "taxing" to the engine, since it would essential be a totally "dry start" not having any oil in the filter.
 
Here's my view,If you live in the Austrailian outback,Sahara,Mojave,etc.,change it every time.City even suburban driving in a metro area what kind of dirt/sand are we talking about ?,the occasional construction site dust cloud?Every other oci should be fine for a great majority of us depending on individual conditions and personal truths.The acids and fuel contamination ,broke down oil, depleted additives and basically 'used up' are really why we change oil,not because its 'dirty'.Take a look at uoa's,how much silica are we really seeing?
 
Quote:

If you don't change the filter you are mixing the old flter full of old oil with the new oil. What a dumb thing to do!


I don't bother changing the filter every OC; I use a Mobil 1 filter and run it 15K miles or about 3 OC on conventional. The "old oil" was successfully lubricating/protecting the engine minutes before deciding to do an OC, so it may be a psychological abomination to leave some in the engine, but from a technical perspective I don't suspect it makes a world of difference for regular 5K OCI. It is not like the oil is that "spent"; if one thinks it is, they ought to be changing it a lot sooner.

JMO.
 
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Originally Posted By: callbay
If you don't change the filter you are mixing the old flter full of old oil with the new oil. What a dumb thing to do!


You can't get around used (I would not call it dirty) oil that stays in the engine as well...a quart or so stay's clinging to the insides of the engine. The contaminates stay in the oil filter and the oil is still good just spent a little. So I don't think its a (dumb thing to do). Oem oil changes are fine, but if you push the oil, change the filter as well.
 
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