Mobil 1 0W-40 - VW 1.8T

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Jun 21, 2002
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282
Location
VA
Oil Brand/Weight : M1 0w-40
Type Equipment : VW Jetta 1.8L T
Miles/Hours on oil : 6004
Total Miles/Hours : 55451
Results ppm/% Comments (blank=normal)
Wear
Copper 3
Iron 14 5w-30 SS showed slightly lower wear rate
Chromium 0
Lead 0
Aluminum 2
Silicon 9 Airfilter works well still.
Tin 0

Additives
Molybdenum 57
Sodium 8
Magnesium 40
Zinc 668
Potassium 0
Phosphorus 583
Calcium 1920

Physical Properties
Water negative
Fuel negative scale negative,trace,positive
Antifreeze negative
Soot 0 no solids
Oxidation 41 scale 0-199 20.5 %,almost doubled from normal.
Nitration 73 scale 0-199 36.5 %,higher than normal,cold weather
affecting
Sulfur 25 fuel sulfur
TBN 8 normal for miles driven
Vis@100 C 12.1 thinned to 30w.

Final Comments : All engine wear normal to low. The oil thinned out of
grade but wear not affected. Engine and oil working well together. Nox continues up with cold weather influencing that increase. Oxidation is beginning to be influenced by Nox level. No solids showing up so inside of engine is remaining clean. Nox,oxd,and vis shear only things keeping me from recommending a longer
drain.

Compare to 5W30 analysis here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=487466

Note that the 5W30 SS was used almost exclusively on the highway, in the summer. This 0W-40 sample was used almost exclusively in short trips, colder weather, and a lot of traffic jams, and for almost 1500 miles more. I was hoping for single digit metal wear across the board, but no luck. OEM filter as always.
The shearing to 12.1 Cst is not surprising under the conditions. Oil often was not up to temp when shut down most of the time, so mechanical shearing effect outweighed the smaller molecules vaporing off.
 
"Oil sheared out of grade" to 12.1 Cst ...

Exactly my point on the Delvac 1, 5w-40 vs M1, 0w-40 thread....

Since the iron - valvetrain/cylinder - wear is essentially the same, I see no reason to use the 0w-40 over the 5w-30 or 10w-30 in this motor. I'd probably run the 10w-30 year round in VA ....
 
quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:
"Oil sheared out of grade" to 12.1 Cst ...

Exactly my point on the Delvac 1, 5w-40 vs M1, 0w-40 thread....

Since the iron - valvetrain/cylinder - wear is essentially the same, I see no reason to use the 0w-40 over the 5w-30 or 10w-30 in this motor. I'd probably run the 10w-30 year round in VA ....


12.1 is still a lot higher than the Mobil 1 XW30. The main reason for running this oil is that it meets the manufacturer's specs (ACEA A2/A3 and the VW specs) and the XW30 ones do not.
I have an additional concern coming up, as I am upgrading to a K04 turbo. These have had a history of failing, and one of the theories is that XW30 oil, particularly those on the lower end of the 30 scale like Mobil 1, do not provide enough shaft stability at high operating temps. I think these results, while not stellar, are more than adequete.
 
dbrowne1,

Since this 0w-40 sheared down by about 15%, I'd be honestly surprised if it still met the 3.5 Cp, ACEA "A3" spec for high temp/high shear viscosity. If you are upgrading the engine, I'd seriously consider running the new Redline 5w-40, Delvac 1, 5w-40 or that other stuff whose name escapes me at the moment
wink.gif
....The fact that all these oils have marginally higher phosphorus than allowed by the API isn't an issue, IMNSHO. I'd expect oil consumption to be 30%-50% lower than with Mobil 1, 0w-30 or 5w-30.

FWIW, I plan to run mostly 0w-30/5w-30 synlubes in my 225 hp Audi TT, but you can be sure it won't be M1
grin.gif
 
Slick, you don't know what your missing. Just think of how that Molybdenum could protect your engine.
grin.gif
 
I think after 6K miles of more off highway use and winter your results are quite good. I would continue with what you are doing with the exception that perhaps Delvac 1 might hold grade better but doesn't have moly :)

[ January 22, 2003, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: Al ]
 
buster,

If I wanted a 12 centistoke, xw-30wt oil, I'd simply run the Amsoil 10w-30
wink.gif


Of course I am nitpicking on this analysis, but I wouldn't want to run this 0w-40 for say 15,000 miles. I'm sure it has thinned as much as it ever would - from this point on it would actually start to thicken due to oxidation/nitration. So if you were to test it at say 15,000 miles, it would probably be a 14-15 Cst oil again - in fact, I'm 99% certain it would be.

FWIW, I think that Mobil actually plans on this shearing/thickening behavior in the 0w-40, so the oil stays in grade over the very long change intervals they have in the European market. What you find Mobil doing with their 5w-30 an 10w-30 is a somewhat different approach... In the latter case they formulate at the bottom of the 30wt spec limit. So their 5w-30/10w-30 would literally have to thicken by over 25% to thicken to a 40wt.

See how simple all this stuff is ...pretty clever, eh?
 
True, and I'm glad S2000 weighs in at a nice 11.5. Why do Mobil 30wts. run on the thin side? Isn't this bad? I ran M1 trisynt before I switched to S2000 for about 75k miles. I took this oil out to 6k drains, without analysis. I don't think it's good to be running a thinned out 30wt. (now 20wt) oil when your car calls for a 30wt. Correct?

[ January 22, 2003, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
Seems the 0W40 had a much harder life than the 5W30 skewing the results somewhat?
TooSlick very interesting re purposely thickening for long European type drains. Good info..s
 
Buster,

Wear rates with Mobil 1, 5w-30 and 10w-30 are acceptable for 90%-95% of the street applications out there. If you have some unusually severe situation where the 5w-30 shows high wear rates, I'd either run a thicker Mobil 1 product or I'd go to Redline or Amsoil.

In the specific case above, the Mobil 1, 5w-30 was showing very low wear rates and it was also holding up well in terms of physical/chemical degradation. You would be hard pressed to beat those 5w-30 results, as 0w-30/5w-30/10w-30 may be the optimum grades for this engine under these driving conditions. Now if the thing is chip tuned to 250 hp, I'd take another look at the situation. In that case, I'd probably start out using the Mobil 1, 10w-30 and see how it does.

TooSlick
 
OIL TYPE & GRADE: Mobil 1 0W/40 Supersyn (Gas)
EQUIPMENT MAKE: Volkswagen
EQUIPMENT MODEL: 1.8L Turbo
Year: 2002
FUEL TYPE: Gasoline (Unleaded)
OIL USE INTERVAL: 4383 Miles
MI/HR ON UNIT: 15,544
SAMPLE DATE: 01/12/03 (Previous change was on 11/05/02, mostly warm days and cool evenings since then. Don’t recall having a freeze during this timeframe.)
MAKE-UP OIL ADDED: 0 qts

MY ELEMENTS IN PPM / Universal averages
ALUMINUM 2 / 3
CHROMIUM 0 / 1
IRON 11 / 11
COPPER 6 / 6
LEAD 2/ 2
TIN 0 / 0
MOLYBDENUM 69 / 36
NICKEL 1 / 1
MANGANESE 0 / 0
SILVER 0 / 0
TITANIUM 0 / 0
POTASSIUM 0 / 0
BORON 159 / 95
SILICON 5 / 9
SODIUM 9 / 6
CALCIUM 2432 / 1869
MAGNESIUM 32 / 183
PHOSPHORUS 763 / 742
ZINC 869 / 847
BARIUM 0 / 0

SUS viscosity @ 210°F: 67.3 / should be 65-76
Flashpoint in °F: 385 / should be 385
Fuel %: should be Antifreeze %: 0.0 / should be 0
Water %: 0.0 / should be 0
Insolubles %: 0.4 / should be
TBN: 12 / should be greater than 2.0

Their words: All wear read remarkably close to averages for this type of engine, which is a good indication of normal wearing parts and careful operation.

[ February 04, 2003, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: aaonms ]
 
67.3 SUS equals 12.31 cst at 100c. Yet another 0w40 thinning out to a 30wt.

Who was it that said last week that this oil doesn't thin out? The trend on here is definitely showing it does.

Although it doesn't concern me too much as I still think that LS1 and LT1 engines would benefit from an oil in the range of 12-14cst, and this oil stays in that range for at least a 5-6k interval by the looks of it. I wonder at what point it would bottom out and then start thickening due to oxidation though?
 
keep in mind the engines in question here are all turbocharged. That does add additional wear to the oil. Also keep in mind the 0w40 oil does seem to thin out then thicken back up.

--Matt
 
I didn't used to think turbos were harder on oil -until I owned one....the turbo oil bearings get MUCH hotter than any other bearing surface....have you seen a turbo glow cherry red at night after hard driving? - it's what convinced me to switch to synthetic oil way before I became a sales weasel.

Let me put it this way as well: Amsoil says 10K miles for my car.....NOT 25/35K miles.

Turbos tear the cr@p out of petroleum oils, coking and ultimate turbo death will shortly ensue...if cool downs are not practiced, etc....
 
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