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#1866416 - 04/21/10 07:21 PM 41TE Transmission Rebuild
Texan4Life Offline


Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 2217
Loc: Texas
As promised here is the beginning of the 41TE rebuild. This is from a 1997 dodge avenger with 186,000 miles.



bottom of the valve body after pan and filter have been removed:


Top side of valve body:



Valve body removed:



Check out the shaft wobble.. I suspect that's not a good thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBEUfFBY8LU


More to follow!


Edited by Texan4Life (04/21/10 07:22 PM)
_________________________
2005 Dodge Ram 1500, 5.7L
[Current Fill: PP 0w-20][Baldwin B2-HPG]

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#1866440 - 04/21/10 07:46 PM Re: 41TE Transmission Rebuild [Re: Texan4Life]
Anies Offline


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 2768
Loc: NJ
Nice! Always interested in teardowns. Were those wear metals in the second to the last pick(blackish areas?)
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2013 Toyota Venza LE AWD (mine)
2014 Ford Fusion SE w/Tech (wifey)
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#1866485 - 04/21/10 08:23 PM Re: 41TE Transmission Rebuild [Re: Anies]
L_Sludger Offline


Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 2675
Loc: NORTHCOM AOR
That wobble looks crazy!

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#1866509 - 04/21/10 08:41 PM Re: 41TE Transmission Rebuild [Re: Anies]
Texan4Life Offline


Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 2217
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Anies
Nice! Always interested in teardowns. Were those wear metals in the second to the last pick(blackish areas?)


yes all the blackened areas are normal wear particles this is why I added a trans filter to my caddy. I don't want that running around in my trans fluid.

After the rebuild this one will get a magnefine inline filter.

I forgot to post the pics of the oil pan when I originally drained the fluid before pulling the whole trans. so here you go..

These are NOT normal:


_________________________
2005 Dodge Ram 1500, 5.7L
[Current Fill: PP 0w-20][Baldwin B2-HPG]

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#1866524 - 04/21/10 08:50 PM Re: 41TE Transmission Rebuild [Re: Texan4Life]
Chris142 Online   content


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 12331
Loc: apple valley, ca
When I was abour 20 I tried to rebuild a TH350. Infact I had it in the car 3x and out of the car 3x before I broke down and hauled it to a local trans shop LOL

I was really tired of R&Ring that thing.
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#1866535 - 04/21/10 09:01 PM Re: 41TE Transmission Rebuild [Re: Anies]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 6788
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Anies
Nice! Always interested in teardowns. Were those wear metals in the second to the last pick(blackish areas?)


Its clutch dust- not "metal" but normal clutch wear particles. Metal particles in an automagic are not normal.

I'll be interested in seeing what ultimately failed in there, and I don't know just how abnormal that shaft movement is. The forward end of the input shaft is basically "carried" in the splines of the convertor turbine, so some movement is OK. I don't ever remember seeing *that* much in the Torqueflite 727s I've rebuilt, though. Of course the shafts on 727s are about twice that diameter and 4x the mass- that looks like a scale model of a transmission! With as small and light as FWD transmissions are, its amazing to me that they don't blow up every 20k miles.
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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#1866592 - 04/21/10 09:35 PM Re: 41TE Transmission Rebuild [Re: 440Magnum]
Texan4Life Offline


Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 2217
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: Anies
Nice! Always interested in teardowns. Were those wear metals in the second to the last pick(blackish areas?)


Its clutch dust- not "metal" but normal clutch wear particles. Metal particles in an automagic are not normal.

I'll be interested in seeing what ultimately failed in there, and I don't know just how abnormal that shaft movement is. The forward end of the input shaft is basically "carried" in the splines of the convertor turbine, so some movement is OK. I don't ever remember seeing *that* much in the Torqueflite 727s I've rebuilt, though. Of course the shafts on 727s are about twice that diameter and 4x the mass- that looks like a scale model of a transmission! With as small and light as FWD transmissions are, its amazing to me that they don't blow up every 20k miles.



pssh its still a heavy back breaker! took two to get it on the table. Good news is the more I take apart the lighter it gets... lol. And yeah compared to a 727 this is tiny.

as far as up and down play as shown in the video I'm not sure what is considered normal. service manual gives no specs. But I suspect what I have is not normal as the clank heard in the video is the sound of the inner shaft hitting the outer shaft.

It does give specs for in/out movement which is .005 - .025 in. This trans had .030 in.
_________________________
2005 Dodge Ram 1500, 5.7L
[Current Fill: PP 0w-20][Baldwin B2-HPG]

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#1866703 - 04/21/10 10:46 PM Re: 41TE Transmission Rebuild [Re: Texan4Life]
L_Sludger Offline


Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 2675
Loc: NORTHCOM AOR
Originally Posted By: Texan4Life
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: Anies
Nice! Always interested in teardowns. Were those wear metals in the second to the last pick(blackish areas?)


Its clutch dust- not "metal" but normal clutch wear particles. Metal particles in an automagic are not normal.

I'll be interested in seeing what ultimately failed in there, and I don't know just how abnormal that shaft movement is. The forward end of the input shaft is basically "carried" in the splines of the convertor turbine, so some movement is OK. I don't ever remember seeing *that* much in the Torqueflite 727s I've rebuilt, though. Of course the shafts on 727s are about twice that diameter and 4x the mass- that looks like a scale model of a transmission! With as small and light as FWD transmissions are, its amazing to me that they don't blow up every 20k miles.



pssh its still a heavy back breaker! took two to get it on the table. Good news is the more I take apart the lighter it gets... lol. And yeah compared to a 727 this is tiny.

as far as up and down play as shown in the video I'm not sure what is considered normal. service manual gives no specs. But I suspect what I have is not normal as the clank heard in the video is the sound of the inner shaft hitting the outer shaft.

It does give specs for in/out movement which is .005 - .025 in. This trans had .030 in.

Try hauling up an A340E. That's a real back breaker. duh

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#1867623 - 04/22/10 07:42 PM Re: 41TE Transmission Rebuild [Re: Texan4Life]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 6788
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Texan4Life

pssh its still a heavy back breaker! took two to get it on the table. Good news is the more I take apart the lighter it gets... lol. And yeah compared to a 727 this is tiny.


Of course when you lift a 41TE, you're lifting transmission AND differential. I wouldn't want to lift a 727 and an 8.75 center section at the same time one at a time is bad enough! Actually, the 8.75 center section probably outweighs the 727 by a good bit.

Originally Posted By: Texan4Life
as far as up and down play as shown in the video I'm not sure what is considered normal. service manual gives no specs. But I suspect what I have is not normal as the clank heard in the video is the sound of the inner shaft hitting the outer shaft.


Of course it can't do that with the converter holding it centered. I'm not sure the shaft is supported except by a single bushing when the convertor is removed, which is probably why they don't give a spec for it.

Hope it turns out well- I've always heard that these are simple to overhaul in concept... if not so simple when trying to get all the snap-rings to not snap until you're ready. grin
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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#1868231 - 04/23/10 11:06 AM Re: 41TE Transmission Rebuild [Re: 440Magnum]
Texan4Life Offline


Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 2217
Loc: Texas
Took a little more apart today....

front of oil pump:


Backside of oil pump:


with the oil pump out of the way you can see the front of the input clutch assembly:


Side view of input clutch assembly:


Closeup of scoring on the input clutch assembly:


Worn out No. 4 thrust washer. you can see why my in/out thrust was out of spec:
_________________________
2005 Dodge Ram 1500, 5.7L
[Current Fill: PP 0w-20][Baldwin B2-HPG]

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#1868240 - 04/23/10 11:18 AM Re: 41TE Transmission Rebuild [Re: Texan4Life]
Texan4Life Offline


Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 2217
Loc: Texas
Rear shaft of the input clutch assembly. the mashed up splines drive the planetary gears on the front sun gear assembly. Or should I say used too:




Goodies found in the front sun gear assembly. They look to neat to be shards of metal... maybe from a roller or needle bearing:


_________________________
2005 Dodge Ram 1500, 5.7L
[Current Fill: PP 0w-20][Baldwin B2-HPG]

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#1868248 - 04/23/10 11:29 AM Re: 41TE Transmission Rebuild [Re: Texan4Life]
lexus114 Offline


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 6045
Loc: Easton, PA
WOW! That thing was definitely worn out!
_________________________
2012 Mercedes-Benz C300 4matic
2015 Lexus RX350 AWD

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#1868252 - 04/23/10 11:31 AM Re: 41TE Transmission Rebuild [Re: Texan4Life]
Texan4Life Offline


Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 2217
Loc: Texas


Front of "front carrier and rear annulus assembly":


with the rear annulus assembly removed:
_________________________
2005 Dodge Ram 1500, 5.7L
[Current Fill: PP 0w-20][Baldwin B2-HPG]

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#1868495 - 04/23/10 03:24 PM Re: 41TE Transmission Rebuild [Re: Texan4Life]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 6788
Loc: Texas
Hey, it almost made 200k miles- that's not bad for a 41TE. Makes me feel a little more confident in the one in Wifey's 05 PT Cruiser. The Cruiser has torque management software- you can feel it cut power during upshifts. If earlier cars with the 41TE had that feature, they'd have held up a lot better. Trying too much to shave off weight/drag, resulted in low reliability without software protection... :-/

So what do you think failed first? My bet is that thrust bearing. Too much longitudinal motion then chewed up splines and bearings, which resulted in too much lateral motion that chewed up the outside of the input clutch drum. Just guessin'.
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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#1871390 - 04/26/10 08:46 AM Re: 41TE Transmission Rebuild [Re: 440Magnum]
lexus114 Offline


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 6045
Loc: Easton, PA
wow,cutting the engine torque to save the transmission? talk about an easy way out of a problem.


Edited by lexus114 (04/26/10 08:46 AM)
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