Hyundai SantaFe 4-cyl Valve replacement?

[clembrewer]

I'm in a bit of a pickle here.

2003 SantaFe, 2.4L 4-cyl.

Wifes car shut off on her while she was driving a few days ago. Initial inspection shows a damaged crankshaft position sensor and balance shaft belt.

Shop replaces all parts, gets the spark back and finds no compression in any of the cylinders. Exaust valves are bent.

How difficult is it to replace these? I can't affort the money a shop will charge. All the parts including special tools are available at NAPA.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Sounds like a broken timing belt - or- they replaced the timing belt incorrectly. Shop should have diagnosed the valve issue right off. Hard to say how to proceed. Its a pretty big job for a shad-tree. Are you out of the 100K warranty?

 

[IndyIan]

Sounds like the timing belt snapped? I'd think an honest or good mechanic would have informed you of all the possible damage before work began?
Maybe its time for a second opinion?
Can't help you with replacing the valves difficultly level, I assume you need to be able to diagnose if the valve guides and seals are damaged too.

 

[Ragin_Diesel]

Deffinetly mis-diagnosed by the Tech. The dealer should be taking care of this.

 

[Trav]

If the pistons hit the valves it i don't think it would even turn over,but you say they got spark.Being an interference engine i also wonder if they got the timing belt on in the correct position.

If it turns over i would remove the valve cover and check the clearance when the lobes are away from each valves,if the clearance is reasonably within specs the valves are not bent.
Not talking about doing a valve adjustment just generally checking that there isn't a large gap.
No unusual clearance look at the timing belt,otherwise pull the head to assess the damage.
The difficulty of any job depends on your skills,but in general its not to bad on the 4cyl.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: clembrewer
I'm in a bit of a pickle here.

2003 SantaFe, 2.4L 4-cyl.

Wifes car shut off on her while she was driving a few days ago. Initial inspection shows a damaged crankshaft position sensor and balance shaft belt.

Shop replaces all parts, gets the spark back and finds no compression in any of the cylinders. Exaust valves are bent.

How difficult is it to replace these? I can't affort the money a shop will charge. All the parts including special tools are available at NAPA.


Define "shut off" plse.

If this happened during driving, and assuming that the engine got spark and fuel while cranking, chances are, timing belt snapped on an interference engine (assuming that the engine has accumulated certain mileage on it already). In this case, compression check on all cylinders and then head off the block to check all the valves for bent ones and also check the rest of the block/piston heads for damage.

Q.

 

[clembrewer]

My wife told me that she was driving then the engine quit. She pulled off to the side of the road and called me. I tried the key, the engine appeared to turn over fine, but no starting.

This car is out of warranty.

The shop informed me that the balance shaft belt fell to the floor when the timing belt cover was removed. Indeed, the belt was in three pieces with a couple of missing teeth. The timing belt appeared to be in good shape. The crankshaft position sensor was shredded and the plate which passes through the sensor was damaged. I saw all of this damage.

Parts were ordered, replaced, and I got the call this morning about no compression and a list of valves that, after removing the valve cover, appear to be, or may be, damaged. This shop would have to remove the head and send it to a machine shop for further diagnosis/repair. That will cost more than I can afford.

How would I be able to tell if this damage occurred after it was brought to the shop, ie, they installed the belt incorrectly?

Edited to add: The shop told me that the timing belt did not appear to be under a lot of tension when they examined it. He stated that they were able to remove it (old belt) by hand without adjusting the tensioner. It is an oil pressure based tensioner. Could the timing have jumped a few teeth when the engine died?

 

[Popinski]

Just a heads-up: If the price is too expensive, you should get a new engine or get a new head at the junkyard.

 

[Quest]

counterbalance shaft belt shouldn't lead to bent valves, period.

and the crank sensor damage along the way will definitely lead to no-drive condition (no spark/fuel/ignition due to computer error code shutdown).

still that doesn't explain why the valves are bent unless the timing belt went/snapped or jump teeth.

Also: timing belt not under a lot of tension?

Sounds like the mystery isn't resolved yet....I would seriously talk to that shop's mech (the one whose responsible for servicing your car and have a serious talk with him to find out more (why/how he came to the conclusion that valves are bent and/or what has been done to diagnose the problem).

Q.

 

[Trav]

It sound like you need to get that car to another shop.
Removing the head to check for bent valves is a little premature,there are other methods of checking them without disassembly.If the valves hit the piston on a running motor the damage should be clearly apparent by the clearance at the rocker arm or lash adjuster,a bent valve will not close properly and the gap will be much larger than normal.

If they have removed the timing belt DO NOT crank that motor or it really could end up with some damage that it may not have now.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Given the evidence before us, the shop wrecked your engine due to improper re-assembly. Get an expert mechanic and get ready for court. UNLESS - are the countershaft and camshaft timing belts tensioned by the same tensioner or independant tensioners? If the timing belt lost tension, then its not the shops fault. I can be argued by the shop that the c-shft belt climbed the timimg belt and caused it to loose time. but THEY should have verified correct timing before reassembly - so still their fault. I took a case to court like this and won an hour before trial. They settled on the cost of the repairs.
BTW is this the Mitsu/Daimler-Kreisler-Jeep/Kia/Hyundai joint venture world engine?

 

[mechtech2]

Those mechanics should have know that this possibility existed before they did any work.
Did they do no testing at all??
Even simply cranking the engine over would show by sound that there was no compression.
But it sure sounds like cam timing caused the valves to bend.
New head gasket [probably several others], anti freeze, oil and filter, valves, are needed for sure. Maybe special shims to set the clearance to the cam. Check the seats for damage, and ensure the valves are seating on them correctly. No leaks and a nice pattern.

 

[caravanmike]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
BTW is this the Mitsu/Daimler-Kreisler-Jeep/Kia/Hyundai joint venture world engine?
no this application has a timing belted motor! the world engine has a chain.

 

[clembrewer]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Given the evidence before us, the shop wrecked your engine due to improper re-assembly. Get an expert mechanic and get ready for court. UNLESS - are the countershaft and camshaft timing belts tensioned by the same tensioner or independant tensioners? If the timing belt lost tension, then its not the shops fault. I can be argued by the shop that the c-shft belt climbed the timimg belt and caused it to loose time. but THEY should have verified correct timing before reassembly - so still their fault. I took a case to court like this and won an hour before trial. They settled on the cost of the repairs.
BTW is this the Mitsu/Daimler-Kreisler-Jeep/Kia/Hyundai joint venture world engine?


According to the diagrams on hmaservice.com there is one auto-tensioner for both belts. The c-shft belt sits directly behind the timing belt.

I'll stop by later today and talk to them again.

 

[StevieC]

I have the V6 version of this SUV, and I have the technical manuals that cover the 4 Cylinder and the two different 6 Cylinders. (all in the same manuals)

It is a pretty big job. I would get a re manufactured head and put it on and not bother trying to repair that one, or take that one off and have it fixed at a professional shop where measurements can be taken to ensure all damage is corrected.

The engines will go forever and this is not a common problem unless the belt was neglected.

PM me if you need copies of the technical drawings for the engine, I would be happy to send you what you need via e-mail.

Steve

 

[JTK]

Yep, this engine has a seperate belt burried in w/ the T-belt that spins the balance shaft. I'd also be concerned w/ what caused the suspect belt to fail. They generally don't fail/snap/pop-off on their own. Lowest cost option is remove and hopefully re-use the cylinder head w/ just replacing the bent valves. Then carefully troubleshoot all the rotating elements associated w/ the T-belt and balance shaft belt. Interesting the exh valves are bent. Typically it's the intakes that have less clearance (and smash).

Joel

 

[StevieC]

Hopefully there isn't any piston damage.

 

[Trav]

They say the T belt was in good shape.The sensor getting wiped was probably the cause of the shut down.Timing belts sometimes seem like there isn't a whole lot of tension on them on the back side of the belt but are still tight enough not to jump teeth.
What bothers me from the description they gave is the "maybe" factor about bent valves.Did they try a new belt and make sure it is properly aligned?Did they check the valve clearance and are certain the valves are closed when they should be?
Personally i wont be removing a head or tear out engine internals before I'm as sure as i can be that its necessary.
Definitely not on a maybe.

 

[clembrewer]

The damaged valves are on the back of the engine. They are the Intake valves, I was mistaken earlier when I said they were the exaust valves.

I looked at the engine - should have gotten some pics, it's fairly clean considering the mileage and unknown history.

The new timing belt is on the engine and it is correctly timed. As far as I can tell. The valves in question are able to be wiggled by hand. You could grab them and jiggle them up and down a bit. This applies to both valves on Cylinder 1, and at least one valve per each of the other three cylinders.

 

[Rand]

was the timing belt ever changed.. I believe both those belts are
60k severe service/90k reg on the maintenance schedule.