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#1650799 - 10/29/09 02:23 PM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: Paleomonster]
ADFD1 Offline


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 1714
Loc: CA.
Originally Posted By: Paleomonster
A mechanic/friend at a large repair shop said that stuff like engine flush solvents are good for making the shop money. They pour one of these solvents in an engine and often there is a quick result, often a failure and they can get on with an engine sway or what ever work is required. Over the last few years ARX has never caused a failure. They used it in my wife's Audi A4. The dealer wanted from $6k up and said that driving the car around the block could be the end of the engine. It was slugged up and the oil light and check engine was on. We did an ARX treatment and repeated it. It took a bit of driving and a few oil changes but there is nothing left of the original problem. I was afraid to try a solvent and ARX was just the ticket. The dealer watched the progress while telling me my warranty was at risk for not following their plan to replace the engine. When we were finished he refused to believe what we showed him. They put the camera probe back in the engine and found nothing but clean engine. ARX did exactly what it claimed to do and this is not the first Audi form me. I have since, purchased several slugged up A4's and done this treatment, detailed the car and made some good money. I was planning to use oil analysis to monitor the progress but found that borrowing a fiber optic device to be good enough for me. At times you can not see much of anything happening and at other times the progress is obvious.

Any complaints about ARX. Well the shop sez that it takes a lot of time to go through the cycles and the customer must comply.

The solvents do their work very quickly and often lead to an e failure of some degree. The solvents don't work well with the A4 because to remove the pan is like tearing up the while front end of the car, a real pain. Removing the pan is often required to clean up the oil pickup screen following a solvent.

All this assumes an engine with problems. I see people putting solvents in engines that are fine. They get back some gunky oil from the oil change and are happy that they are doing something good for their car. Then they claim to be an expert on such matters although they would not have a clue when it comes to fixing anything with their own hands.

Since ARX does not attack the very oil that carries it, why would one use a flush? I know. Because they have had their own success in making their engine oil darker and their engine survives.




Interesting observations, I've also seen first hand how good a job MMO does cleaning neglected engines, some ready for the scrap heap. It also did a pretty impressive job. I guess there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Welcome to Bitog! cheers
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#1650822 - 10/29/09 02:42 PM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: demarpaint]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3110
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Everyone has their favorite. In the end, you pays your money and you takes your chances.

ARX does what it says it does. Never have heard or seen an engine that died from using it. It does have its detractors, but they've never to my knowledge done a complete tear down both before and after using it. Though they have called for its users to do that......

MMO is has been around since time began, or so it seems. It has its detractors and champions, but again, I have yet to see an engine that died from using it. (We'll find out if mine does.)

MMO is more flexible though. And easier and cheaper to get.



Good luck with your MMO treatment, please report back with your findings.


Thanks, but..... I didn't do it for a treatment. Got home, shut it down, and the oil light came up yellow. All I had handy was a qt of MMO, so.......
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Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#1650834 - 10/29/09 03:02 PM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: Trajan]
sprintman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 11005
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
Yes, the synthetic cleaing fallacy is just that. Spend time on 15 worldwide BMW forums as I do and there are numerous horrific pictures of BMW engines run solely on synthetic oil. Some end up as throw away engines. Mine is in 'recovery mode' and has a long way to go.

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#1651008 - 10/29/09 05:08 PM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: sprintman]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3110
Loc: SE PA
I'm waiting for the next oil change to do the ARX run. If I remember to, I'll take a pic of the filter to see what the MMO left in it.
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#1651026 - 10/29/09 05:18 PM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: JohnBrowning]
BoiseRob Offline


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 233
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
The problem with Nutra 131 is that is not recomend on the label to ad to engine oil number one. Number 2 it is a Hazmat item where Auto-Rx is not a hazmat item and does not need Hazmat shipping.3 Theiris no documentation that N131 which I used to use actual does anything when added to oil.

Now LC20 has nice documentation from Terry that is on their site but not anything like Auto-Rx I do not know of any oil additive as well documented with photo's as Auto-Rx.


JB,

If you read the TDS you will see that it can be used in an engine mixed with the oil...

Rob


TD-131 Neutra Fuel Stabilizer

EQUIPMENT PURGE
Neutra Fuel Stabilizer can be used as a flushing fluid
to purge and remove equipment of
varnish and carbon deposits that may have built up over time.
Gas and Diesel Engines, Fluid Powered Transmissions, Differentials
Use one ounce to every quart of engine oil. Run the engine for 500 miles or for 4 to 12 hours
prior to change out.


You can see for your self at...

http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/131.pdf


Edited by BoiseRob (10/29/09 05:31 PM)

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#1651051 - 10/29/09 05:38 PM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: Trajan]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 20760
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Trajan
I'm waiting for the next oil change to do the ARX run. If I remember to, I'll take a pic of the filter to see what the MMO left in it.


You'll probably end up with a clean engine. The MMO will get you off to a good start, and the A-Rx will probably deliver the knock out blow! JMO
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#1651074 - 10/29/09 06:07 PM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: demarpaint]
ADFD1 Offline


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 1714
Loc: CA.
From what a lot of guys have told me who used MMO with A-Rx they found it worked best in the rinse phase. If I were to do it I would add the MMO in the rinse phase.
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#1651090 - 10/29/09 06:21 PM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: ADFD1]
sprintman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 11005
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
Not while seals are firmimg up, no idea what may happen?

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#1651095 - 10/29/09 06:24 PM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: sprintman]
ADFD1 Offline


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 1714
Loc: CA.
According to the MMO people MMO is harmless to all seal materials in modern engines, so I don't think there'd be any problems. Many guys have mentioned doing exactly what I've mentioned here to get a better clean up and attack varnish. They've also mentioned using Neutra in place of MMO during the A-rX rinse.
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------------------------------------------------------------
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#1651176 - 10/29/09 07:51 PM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: ADFD1]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3110
Loc: SE PA
I'm planning on a long clean/rinse cycle with the Pennzoil 5w-40 Euro that sprintman was telling me about.
_________________________

Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#1651242 - 10/29/09 08:41 PM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: ADFD1]
c3po Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 3358
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: ADFD1
From what a lot of guys have told me who used MMO with A-Rx they found it worked best in the rinse phase. If I were to do it I would add the MMO in the rinse phase.


I have a few friends whom I sold some arx to who are adding MMO in the Rinse Phase, one guy did a Clean and Rinse with arx, followed by another Clean Phase, on his 2nd Rinse Phase he added 25% of his oil volume with MMO and he reported back that his oil on the 2nd Rinse Phase came out darker than the 1st Rinse Phase that did not have MMO in there. I asked him if MMO made any of his seals leak, and he said NO.

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#1651489 - 10/30/09 01:27 AM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: c3po]
sprintman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 11005
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
I was taught in the military 'one thing at a time'. I follow that to the letter.

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#1651595 - 10/30/09 07:07 AM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: sprintman]
c3po Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 3358
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: sprintman
I was taught in the military 'one thing at a time'. I follow that to the letter.


The nice thing about this board is that everyone does there own thing, and if something works, it just works.

I did arx for 24,000 miles and then saw results with another product added to the arx mix and by itself, many people now are trying different oil additives or just no oil additives at all.

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#1654418 - 11/01/09 04:29 PM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: BoiseRob]
c3po Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 3358
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: BoiseRob
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
The problem with Nutra 131 is that is not recomend on the label to ad to engine oil number one. Number 2 it is a Hazmat item where Auto-Rx is not a hazmat item and does not need Hazmat shipping.3 Theiris no documentation that N131 which I used to use actual does anything when added to oil.

Now LC20 has nice documentation from Terry that is on their site but not anything like Auto-Rx I do not know of any oil additive as well documented with photo's as Auto-Rx.


JB,

If you read the TDS you will see that it can be used in an engine mixed with the oil...

Rob


TD-131 Neutra Fuel Stabilizer

EQUIPMENT PURGE
Neutra Fuel Stabilizer can be used as a flushing fluid
to purge and remove equipment of
varnish and carbon deposits that may have built up over time.
Gas and Diesel Engines, Fluid Powered Transmissions, Differentials
Use one ounce to every quart of engine oil. Run the engine for 500 miles or for 4 to 12 hours
prior to change out.


You can see for your self at...

http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/131.pdf


I found it very interesting that Neutra has a Pour Point of almost -60 degrees. It also seems that Neutra when used in an engine does some of the same things as MMO, it will be interesting to hear back from panthermike who said he was going to run Neutra in his oil 1000 miles before his OCI.

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#1654628 - 11/01/09 07:23 PM Re: ARX & Aluminum Engines [Re: c3po]
Paleomonster Offline


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 9
Loc: CA
I have done, as may guess, taken cars with gunked up engines and cleaned them up. It takes work and most people want an instant solution, something a bit risky in this kind of work. I used solvents and MMO until I found ARX. I gotta tell 'ya that ARX is the way to go if you have a bit of an investment in that car.

Here is one major thing that makes ARX my choice. It's not having to guess how much solvent to use and putting your hand on the filter to see if it still gets warm and wondering what other places that solvent is going or where it settles after a shut down and wondering if it can lubricate that lifter or cam face until the oil shows up because your engine cleaning solution is not exactly engine oil. No, what I like about ARX is that you can completely screw up the dose, leave it in too long, forget about it, lose access to the car for a long period of time while the driver does not come back, and you WILL NOT DAMAGE THE
ENGINE.

Here is why I make this claim. And please do not duplicate what I did. Idiot's do not need company. I put a bottle in my neighbor's wife's car. Their mechanic put a bottle in and the Husband put a bottle in. We all independently loaded this car with ARX. We purchased the car to fix it up and the Wife got the car to drive around. Well, she moved back to her Mother's house a thousand miles away to take care of her Father with cancer. She was there for 10 months and put almost a 500/700 miles a month running errands and going to the Doctor and stuff like that. Before she returned she went to a quick-lube, did an oil change and the car arrived back home to go through a few more oil changes. I think ARX did a great job and did not trash the motor along the way. This happened 3 years ago and she kept the car. It's still doing fine.

We can all argue until we are blue in the face about exactly how much gunk a product will pull out but the argument ends when you talk about protecting your expensive engine. ARX can go into those tiny places very gently, and do its job, and a very good one at that. I have seen nothing that cleans rings and ring groves, lifters and internal timing chains. Sometimes cleaning out an engine and recovering a car to sell is like grand theft auto.

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