Supertech, Mobil 1, PureOne

[iunderpressure]

Looking for the best oil filter for a 2007 Honda Accord EX 4 cyl. to run long OCIs. I know Champion makes the Supertech, K&N, and Mobil 1 filters. As far as i know the Mobil 1 and K&N are the same filter in a different color. Is there a difference in the Supertech between the other two?

I was liking what i saw about the PureOne filter, but read a UOA that showed it wasn't doing it's job on a long OCI.

So out of the listed options or maybe some different ones which filter for a long oci in my car? If it helps we put about 130 miles on the car a day mainly interstate driving.

 

[Hokiefyd]

The PureOne seems to be the most oft-recommended filter, and has good bang for the buck. Can you post a link to that UOA? I'd like to see it.

The Mobil 1 and K&N filters do appear to be the same filter, and are definitely pricey. I suppose you get what you pay for. Myself, I run the PureOne filters on my Mopars, and have one on my Corolla now, but will use the Toyota Denso filter for the next oil change (this weekend).

 

[HTSS_TR]

Honda S2000 oil filter 15400-PCX-004 or Amsoil EAO20

 

[glenncof]

In my MC FL-820S application the M1 and K&N appear to be Champ Labs built but opposite ends of the filtration spectrum. M1 very fine and K&N very course. The K&N I assume leans toward great flow.

A person claiming to be from Champ said they build to customer spec which is totally reasonable.

http://www.champlabs.com/oilfilters.aspx

 

[Gary Allan]

Champ labs is a filter "job shop". They have their own line of filters ..that you'll rarely see outside of an independent shop or independent parts store. Most filter manufacturers are this way too ..except that they typically have a core consumer level filter that's marketed under their name. ST is a WM Champ filter. K&N is a K&N Champ filter ..and M1 is Mobil 1's Champ filter. Probably ONLY the ST is a rebadged Champ filter that they sell to everyone else.

Champ used to make the UPF line of AC Delco (for another top tier offering).

 

[Steve S]

M1 filters amd K@N are not the same filters. The supertech probably filters as good as a K@N and the M1 similar to a Pure 1.

 

[Steve S]

What showed that the Pure 1 wasn't doing its job by the uoa? Honda engines do not seem to put out a dirt so most any filter would be fine .If you do the high miles a syn oil an Amsoil filter should get you in to the 20,000 mile oil change interval

 

[iunderpressure]

The UOA that made me question the PureOne is one of the million i read yesterday. I woundn't know where to start to look for it. The person went 15000 miles on that OCI and in the UOA there was some stuff ( i forgot the term) in the oil. It was a percentage not a number.

 

[Gary Allan]

insolubles. It's the inert material left in the oil. It's not necessarily a filter problem since you can accumulate 2um insolubles all day long and the filter will never see the things ..even a bypass won't necessarily alter that reading. What you look for is too high a level.

Keep in mind that if you're dealing with magnitudes from 0.3-0.4 (typical) ..that it kinda needs a bit of a passing glance. That is, while you're looking at a 33% increase between the two, it may only be the difference between 0.34 and 0.35.

You're looking at a soccer score ..but it's really a basketball game.

 

[ZZman]

Wouldn't the Supertech use the cheaper cellulose element and not the Synthetic element in the M1 and K & N?

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
Wouldn't the Supertech use the cheaper cellulose element and not the Synthetic element in the M1 and K & N?


Yes. Absolutely.

 

[TurboJim]

The M1 and K&N use a silicone anti-drainback valve. You won't find that in a ST.

"Wouldn't the Supertech use the cheaper cellulose element and not the Synthetic element in the M1 and K & N?"

Not necessarily.

 

[Gary Allan]

TJ ..it's totally out of the question that WM is going to get the same media as a $10+ filter. The only way would be if Champ was about to run out of cheap media and the line was going to be shut down OR if some clown pulled the wrong material for the run and correcting it would cost more than just ordering more M1 or K&N grade media.

 

[TurboJim]

They are already using M1 grade media in at least one STP application. No reason they couldn't use it in the slightly more economical priced ST. M1 & K&N don't have the exclusive rights to the media used in their filters. They could have, but weren't willing to pay for it. You'll find a unique number of pleats and other premium components in those two Champ constructed filters. Beyond that Champ is free to mix and match as they see fit on the other filters lines.

 

[axjohn]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
TJ ..it's totally out of the question that WM is going to get the same media as a $10+ filter. The only way would be if Champ was about to run out of cheap media and the line was going to be shut down OR if some clown pulled the wrong material for the run and correcting it would cost more than just ordering more M1 or K&N grade media.


I'm not sure it's out of the question. I have no expertise in this issue, but let me tell you a little story. For two summers (one after high school, and one after my freshman year in college--summer of '68 and '69), I worked at the Phillips Petroleum refinery in Wilmington, CA. I was the "college-boy"--that's what the leadman used to call me. Well, anyway, part of what we did was can motor oil--Phillips 66 Trop-Artic--of various weights.

When we finished with the Trop-Artic run--after I hand-loaded cases 48 and 60 to a pallet--all we did was run the different "cans" to the machine and start the line right back up. Drugstore chain cans got exactly the same oil as went in the Trop-Artic cans--the cardboard cans with metal tops--old-timers will remember then. We canned for Phillips, Thrifty-Mart, and a lot of others that I can't remember the names of. Same product, different cans, went on the same Phillips 66 trucks to be delivered to the various locations.

Started buying Thrifty oil after that because I new what it was!

 

[axjohn]

And besides, Walmart has a heck of a lot of buying power, so selling to them in bulk could lower the cost of the hi-priced media for all.

 

[Gary Allan]

Oh, it's surely a possibility. Most of the cost of M1 and K&N is marketing and ROI for those who carry them. The cost difference between the 3 filters is probably a quarter to half a buck. The labor is the same ..and most of the parts are the same.


..but there's no rational reason to sell a $10 filter for $2

I wish Pete C. would chime in and give us a clue to the difference in production costs that allows WIX to produce the Napa ProSelect on (probably) identical equipment, requiring equal manpower and material ..etc..etc.

..yet produce an identical size filter for about 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of a filter that isn't even marketed to any extent I can see.

Do you see the WIX blimp?

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
M1 filters amd K@N are not the same filters. The supertech probably filters as good as a K@N and the M1 similar to a Pure 1.


This page seems to indicate that both K&N and Mobil 1 filters are made by Champion Labs, and both are nearly identical. The only real difference being the 1" nut welded to the bottom of the K&N filter:

"This filter is a very close match to the Mobil 1 filter, which like this one also uses the original "performance" version of the Champion Labs design. The only unique attribute to this filter is the nut welded to the back of the can. This may be handy during removal, but it does increase the overall length of the can which can lead to clearance problems if things are already tight. They make oil filter wrenches in various styles for a reason. The K&N is an expensive filter for what it is, and you can save $2 by getting the Mobil 1 instead."

http://www.knizefamily.net/minimopar/oilfilters/reference.html

Where do you get your data that suggests the SuperTech filters as good as a K&N, and a Mobil 1 as good as a PureOne?

 

[XCELERATIONRULES]

I've been using supertech synthetic and oil filters for quite a while in my motorcycle and automobiles.
When I take my valve covers off for valve adjustment, the engine looks like new.
I change my oil 3 times a year,and have never had any kind of engine failure in 30 years of driving.
The car falls apart waaaay before the engine quits.

 

[Steve S]

The mentioned web site measures the filters and givs a visual opinion without any consideration to the elementf filtering ability. plus the Motorcraft FL l filter opinion as being the same as the Pure 1 is not so. There was a guy posted mesurements of the filtering ability of the elements using a special machine .