M1 5w30 on a VW 1.8T
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You got one of funky owners manuals. I have a 2003 GTI 1.8T. Don't use M1 5W-30. Use M1 0W-40 if you want a good and easy to get approved oil. It's better in some important ways (cleanliness despite taking a lot of abuse, great gas mileage) than some of the hard to get oils.
M1 10w-40 HiMiles is ok....actually a good choice. Look for Shell Rotella T Synth 5w-40 at WalMart, as good as anything.
I agree those are great oils but Rotella isn't approved and I don't think M1 10W-40 HM is approved (confirm or deny at will).
I'm out of warranty and might fill up today with M1 10W-40 HM since I'm in cleaning mode getting rid of varnish from past bad synthetic oil choices (combined with my OCI and driving habits). M1 OW-40 has done a fine job of cleaning for past 4.5k miles (two fills of it) but curiosity has got me and I want to compare to the other oil that's designed to clean. Sorry for the hijack. I just love 1.8T oil choice talks because what you use is so important!
I'm out of warranty and might fill up today with M1 10W-40 HM since I'm in cleaning mode getting rid of varnish from past bad synthetic oil choices (combined with my OCI and driving habits). M1 OW-40 has done a fine job of cleaning for past 4.5k miles (two fills of it) but curiosity has got me and I want to compare to the other oil that's designed to clean. Sorry for the hijack. I just love 1.8T oil choice talks because what you use is so important!
Jag,
I find some of your posts to be pretty interesting with a lot of good info in them. In reading some of your posts, I get the sense that you regret using some of the Euro synthetics but seem to have had success with M1 0w-40 and Synpower 5w-40 (I'm reading between the lines here). If I'm interpreting what you are saying correctly, why did you choose M1 over Synpower? Was it the VW501.1 spec?
Thanks
I find some of your posts to be pretty interesting with a lot of good info in them. In reading some of your posts, I get the sense that you regret using some of the Euro synthetics but seem to have had success with M1 0w-40 and Synpower 5w-40 (I'm reading between the lines here). If I'm interpreting what you are saying correctly, why did you choose M1 over Synpower? Was it the VW501.1 spec?
Thanks
VeeDubb,
Yeah I regret some of the oils I used, but it was a good learning experience. It cost me extra money (in oil and gas) and more of my own labor for extra oil changes. I'll try to summarize here in chronological order. Car bought in May 2003.
M1 0W-40 (API SL)-super gas mileage and cleanliness; no oil consumption in 5k miles; used several times
Synpower 5W-40 (API SL)-pretty darn good gas mileage and maintaining of cleanliness; no oil consumption in 5k miles; used several times
Amsoil 5W-40 (old formula) - gas mileage, power, and turbo response worsened; don't recall if it maintained the perfectly clean upper end of engine; don't recall oil consumption
Gold GC - 1st case of oil consumption and gas mileage took a big dump (weird huh?); power and turbo response good
Syntec 5W-40 - gas mileage actually improved a bit but still below what M1 0W-40 and Synpower gave; the killer was oil consumption spiked (worst yet) and I changed it at 3k miles because of it
Lubromoly 0W-40 - improved mileage more so but still less than M1 0W-40 and Synpower; no oil consumption until about 4k into it (it suddenly occured); around this time noticed loss of cleanliness when viewing inside valve cover
Lubromoly 5W-40 - mileage dropped again; oil consumption occurred; cleanliness worsening; power and turbo response sluggish
M1 10W-40 MX4T - mileage between what Lubromoly 0W-40 and 5W-40 gave; power and turbo response sluggish; got oil consumption and drained it early out of frustration; cleanliness same or worse than before
Lubromoly 0W-40 - same as before with this oil but consumption was worse; again frustrated and drained early; cleanliness becoming disturbing
M1 0W-40 (API SM) - gas mileage shot up significantly; power and turbo response very good; all the other good news about cleaning is chronicled in my M1 0W-40 thread in the GC forum; just last week over 380 miles, I got 32 MPG which is very good in late March for my car and driving habits; even Rt. 95 traffic jams mixed with 80-85 mph driving gave me 31 MPG over the weekend. That would not have been close to possible with my other recent oil choices.
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Today's Synpower 5W-40 is very different than what I used. I have no idea how the new would do in my 1.8T. Only way for me to get it is to order it. I really like the current M1 0W-40 formulation. It seems stronger than ever from the UOA, VOA, and my own high temperature testing of it and it's doing what I want it to in my engine...that's why I'm using it right now.
Yeah I regret some of the oils I used, but it was a good learning experience. It cost me extra money (in oil and gas) and more of my own labor for extra oil changes. I'll try to summarize here in chronological order. Car bought in May 2003.
M1 0W-40 (API SL)-super gas mileage and cleanliness; no oil consumption in 5k miles; used several times
Synpower 5W-40 (API SL)-pretty darn good gas mileage and maintaining of cleanliness; no oil consumption in 5k miles; used several times
Amsoil 5W-40 (old formula) - gas mileage, power, and turbo response worsened; don't recall if it maintained the perfectly clean upper end of engine; don't recall oil consumption
Gold GC - 1st case of oil consumption and gas mileage took a big dump (weird huh?); power and turbo response good
Syntec 5W-40 - gas mileage actually improved a bit but still below what M1 0W-40 and Synpower gave; the killer was oil consumption spiked (worst yet) and I changed it at 3k miles because of it
Lubromoly 0W-40 - improved mileage more so but still less than M1 0W-40 and Synpower; no oil consumption until about 4k into it (it suddenly occured); around this time noticed loss of cleanliness when viewing inside valve cover
Lubromoly 5W-40 - mileage dropped again; oil consumption occurred; cleanliness worsening; power and turbo response sluggish
M1 10W-40 MX4T - mileage between what Lubromoly 0W-40 and 5W-40 gave; power and turbo response sluggish; got oil consumption and drained it early out of frustration; cleanliness same or worse than before
Lubromoly 0W-40 - same as before with this oil but consumption was worse; again frustrated and drained early; cleanliness becoming disturbing
M1 0W-40 (API SM) - gas mileage shot up significantly; power and turbo response very good; all the other good news about cleaning is chronicled in my M1 0W-40 thread in the GC forum; just last week over 380 miles, I got 32 MPG which is very good in late March for my car and driving habits; even Rt. 95 traffic jams mixed with 80-85 mph driving gave me 31 MPG over the weekend. That would not have been close to possible with my other recent oil choices.
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Today's Synpower 5W-40 is very different than what I used. I have no idea how the new would do in my 1.8T. Only way for me to get it is to order it. I really like the current M1 0W-40 formulation. It seems stronger than ever from the UOA, VOA, and my own high temperature testing of it and it's doing what I want it to in my engine...that's why I'm using it right now.
I concur that you should stick with a VW-recommended 502.00 oil with a 5K mi. OCI. M1 0w40 & GC are my choices, but there are other good ones out there. Usually 5w40. I don't know of any USA 5w30 oils that are 502.00-rated.
Jag,
Interesting chronology. It's amazing how sensitive this engine is to oil choices because I've also noticed nontrivial changes in gas mileage and turbo response depending on the oil used. My chronology is:
5k drained factory fill (averaged 33.4 mpg on trip from Ohio to NC on factory fill). Replaced with dealer castrol GTX.
Turbo response slightly worse, but gas mileage held.
7.5k replaced with a second dose of dealer GTX.
10k Valvoline Synpower 5w-40. noticeable increase in turbo response but mileage dropped to 32mpg on Ohio/NC trip.
25k tried GC for the first time. Sluggish turbo response, mileage stayed the same until about 1200 miles into interval. Then got unbelievable spike (up to 35.5 on NC/ohio trip). Then MPG decreased again. I suspect the GC thinned and then thickened again, but its just a hunch. In any case, the sluggish turbo response was enough for me to abandon GC.
30K Filled with Maxlife Synthetic 5w-30. Turbo response improved over GC. Mileage got worse (32mpg), but was about same as with Synpower 5w-40.
Been running maxlife synthetic ever since (68,500 miles now). Turbo response has remained good and no sign of oil consumption. When I open the oil cap, there is a brownish coat on the metal parts but I can use my finger to wipe it off so its not hard. I'm currently 3,500 miles into this interval. What do you make of the brown coat? Anything to be concerned about?
In any case, the latest batch of maxlife I bought no longer have the VW50x or MB specs on bottles. A valvoline tech told me they don't plan on meeting those specs in the future so I may be switching to another oil. It sounds like M1 0w-40 might be a good candidate.
Interesting chronology. It's amazing how sensitive this engine is to oil choices because I've also noticed nontrivial changes in gas mileage and turbo response depending on the oil used. My chronology is:
5k drained factory fill (averaged 33.4 mpg on trip from Ohio to NC on factory fill). Replaced with dealer castrol GTX.
Turbo response slightly worse, but gas mileage held.
7.5k replaced with a second dose of dealer GTX.
10k Valvoline Synpower 5w-40. noticeable increase in turbo response but mileage dropped to 32mpg on Ohio/NC trip.
25k tried GC for the first time. Sluggish turbo response, mileage stayed the same until about 1200 miles into interval. Then got unbelievable spike (up to 35.5 on NC/ohio trip). Then MPG decreased again. I suspect the GC thinned and then thickened again, but its just a hunch. In any case, the sluggish turbo response was enough for me to abandon GC.
30K Filled with Maxlife Synthetic 5w-30. Turbo response improved over GC. Mileage got worse (32mpg), but was about same as with Synpower 5w-40.
Been running maxlife synthetic ever since (68,500 miles now). Turbo response has remained good and no sign of oil consumption. When I open the oil cap, there is a brownish coat on the metal parts but I can use my finger to wipe it off so its not hard. I'm currently 3,500 miles into this interval. What do you make of the brown coat? Anything to be concerned about?
In any case, the latest batch of maxlife I bought no longer have the VW50x or MB specs on bottles. A valvoline tech told me they don't plan on meeting those specs in the future so I may be switching to another oil. It sounds like M1 0w-40 might be a good candidate.
Likewise! It's good to hear another's experiences.
The brown coating is a precurser to varnish...insolubles mixed with oxidized and unoxidized oil. I had that too but it went from soft and whipable-off to hardened and not whipable as Lubromoly was used. So it went from precurser to varnish to varnish. I had to use a solvent to get it off. If it's there, it is likely in other places where it can cause problems like PCV valve, its hose, the Y-hose that comes off valve cover and PCV hose, and the air control valve (it has small orifice so needs to be free and clear) that's at the end of the Y-hose. I cleaned all those parts out expect for the PCV valve and hose. It was a mess which I described in my M1 0W-40 thread in the GC forum. The top of my valve cover has deposits and they are getting puked out of the vent hole that connects to the Y-hose. My intake hose had these deposits in it from where the air control valve connects to it (got puked there
Jag,
Thanks for the tip on the PVC valve, etc. I'll definitely have to look into getting the parts cleaned.
On another topic, do you have a tiptronic or manual? If you do have a manual, have you given thought to changing the "lifetime" gear oil?
Thanks for the tip on the PVC valve, etc. I'll definitely have to look into getting the parts cleaned.
On another topic, do you have a tiptronic or manual? If you do have a manual, have you given thought to changing the "lifetime" gear oil?
M1 5w-30 doesn't meet the VW 502.00 spec, so if you want to follow the manual, then the answer is no.
That said, I used M1 5w-30 (API SL) in my 1.8T at 5K mile intervals without any problems and with good UOAs. There are people who took this oil up to 10K miles in their 1.8Ts and their UOAs still looked good.
VeeDubb, when you clean those parts, let me know what you found. I'm interested.
I have a 6 speed manual tranny and got the fluid changed at 60k miles with the OEM (expensive) fluid, for peace of mind. Most wear debris forms early in the tranny's life, so I wanted it out. I don't think that lifetime gear oil practice is best for tranny life. I intend to keep my car as long as possible so spending a little extra on some things will pay off in the end.
I have a 6 speed manual tranny and got the fluid changed at 60k miles with the OEM (expensive) fluid, for peace of mind. Most wear debris forms early in the tranny's life, so I wanted it out. I don't think that lifetime gear oil practice is best for tranny life. I intend to keep my car as long as possible so spending a little extra on some things will pay off in the end.
Jag,
I had my car in for routine service today at a very reputation indy shop for VWs and Audis. Just for kicks, I asked them to check out my pvc system to see if there are signs of sludge or varnish. They looked at it and said that there was minimal evidence of sludging. They suggested that I stick with my current oil and interval. These guys are pretty keenly aware of sludging issues as they have sludge samples taken from 1.8Ts sitting on their counter. So I think I may stick with Maxlife Synthetic unless they change the formulation so as not to meet VW 502 anymore.
I have a 2001 TT225 QR. My manual states to use 5w-40. I have not used a 30 wt. oil in my Audi. I use what Audi recommends. In my case, my manual states clearly a 40 wt. I now have some M1 0w-40 that I was using as my winter oil. I have some Castrol Syntec 10w40 sitting in my stash right now. I think I am going to use that up as the summer oil.
Thanks for the update VeeDub.
You all seem to have VW transverse 1.8Ts, so YMMV, but I have 2 longitudinals, one unmolested stocker with 200K miles and one pushing about 300hp in a 95K mile car. I have used every synth you can imagine in both (having had them since 1999 when 5w-40s were unheard of on the US market and the sludge issue was still just a pipedream). I have noticed little difference in mileage and or turbo hit. The biggest difference is how quiet the valve lifters are on startup. I recently had the cams out of the 200K mi. car and the top end looked almost brand new. Save some carbonization in the combustion chamber on the 95K car from running rich, it is the same. Neither burns much oil, although the 200K car does have an oil pan leak so I tend to add a little for that reason and might be missing some burnoff. I have run OCIs anywhere from 5K miles to 10K miles, and have run the 200K mi. car to 15K when it was pulling mostly highway duty.
The bottom line: I think this engine's reputation for being picky/tough on oil is overblown. It's a turbo, so it needs a robust synth. and might require shorter OCIs depending on how you drive it. Beyond that, I think it's pretty bulletproof.
The bottom line: I think this engine's reputation for being picky/tough on oil is overblown. It's a turbo, so it needs a robust synth. and might require shorter OCIs depending on how you drive it. Beyond that, I think it's pretty bulletproof.
Ditto.
From one Audi 1.8t owner to another stick with the 502.00 rated oils. Do a google search on "audi approved oil list" and you'll find several pdf's with a bunch of 502.00 oils. Most on the list aren't available in the US but several are. IMHO you're much better off using any one of those over an oil not 502.00.
a_g
Jag,
Looks like Valvoline will no longer try to meet the VW502 spec on Maxlife synthetic so I'm switching to M1 0w-40. I'm wondering though what your thoughts are on the drain interval. It really bugs me that this oil thins to a 30 grade in sub-5000 mile intervals. Shouldn't the VI breakdown create long term varnishing problems? I'm thinking maybe a 3000 mile drain but that could be overkill, especially since this stuff costs more than six bucks a quart.....
Looks like Valvoline will no longer try to meet the VW502 spec on Maxlife synthetic so I'm switching to M1 0w-40. I'm wondering though what your thoughts are on the drain interval. It really bugs me that this oil thins to a 30 grade in sub-5000 mile intervals. Shouldn't the VI breakdown create long term varnishing problems? I'm thinking maybe a 3000 mile drain but that could be overkill, especially since this stuff costs more than six bucks a quart.....
I run standard M1 10w-30 in mine for 5-6K intervals and I have 150K miles on a modded 350hp 1.8t A4TQM, no problems to report. Engine compression is still within 5 PSI of factory new on 3 cylinders, and within 20PSI on one. Thats the same it was when I got it, and it hasnt changed since. M1 is the best.
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